solve this puzzle

roid · Post by **roid** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:37 am

http://crux.baker.edu/cdavis09/roses.html

can you solve this? how long does it take you? anything interesting to report about your process etc?

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if you come back here without getting it, i don't suggest you read on. it takes some people quite a while (days, months!) and i don't want to stuff up that process by letting you have the answer too early.

Vertigo 99 · Post by **Vertigo 99** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:03 am

I've already seen it (i won't give it away). Me, my brother, and sister were all trying to solve it, I got it in like 20-30 minutes (it was long, but not THAT long).

i've heard of people who get shown this problem by their professor at the beginning of the school year and who never end up solving it

Plebeian · Post by **Plebeian** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:45 am

I got it immediately. According to Dr. Duke I must be the most unsmartest person in the world.

(But I know exactly why he said that. Usually with a complex thought process, it's harder to be able to look for a simple solution.

)

Avder · Post by **Avder** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:55 am

Amusing.

It took me oh, 5 minutes to figure it out.

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:09 am

Got it. Took about 1/2 hour. I had half of it, but I didn't apply the rule to all the dice, so it was still screwing me up.

XeonJr · Post by **XeonJr** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:40 am

30 seconds
I don't beleive the BS about smarter people taking longer to solve this. They give you a completely illogical statement ("How many petals around the rose") and apply it to a set of dice. The most logical thing to do is assume that each dice represents a rose.

Flabby Chick · Post by **Flabby Chick** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:46 am

I got it quite quick, i can imagine it must be frustrating.

Lobber · Post by **Lobber** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:49 am

The comment about how long it takes you to get it was meant as a joke.

I got it very quickly after I analyzed the results and figured out the pattern: (Don't mouse-over unless you want a BIG hint)

[spoiler]
6 4 1 6 2 = 0
6 2 2 1 4 = 0
4 4 2 1 1 = 0
1 2 6 6 6 = 0
4 1 4 6 2 = 0
6 6 6 6 4 = 0

4 4 1 2 3 = 2
6 2 4 3 4 = 2
3 2 1 4 6 = 2

3 6 2 6 3 = 4
4 6 5 1 1 = 4
5 6 6 1 4 = 4
6 5 2 6 6 = 4
4 2 2 6 5 = 4
1 5 2 2 1 = 4
2 2 1 4 5 = 4
6 6 2 5 1 = 4

6 4 5 3 2 = 6
3 1 4 5 6 = 6
3 2 2 5 4 = 6

1 2 3 3 5 = 8
4 5 1 4 5 = 8
1 5 1 4 5 = 8
3 2 1 3 5 = 8

3 5 5 2 1 = 10
3 6 5 1 5 = 10
5 2 4 5 3 = 10

6 1 5 5 5 = 12
3 5 2 3 5 = 12

5 3 5 3 5 = 16
[/spoiler]

Edit: I have figured out the meaning of the puzzle completely now. I understand it. If you want to know what it means and how to solve it every time, private message me.

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:35 am

Not getting it

SuperSheep · Post by **SuperSheep** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:45 am

Actually, the puzzle is self explanatory, count the petals around the rose.

removed spoiler - Tet

Scratch · Post by **Scratch** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:58 am

ok -- i'm not going to look ...i'll figure this out..

Lobber · Post by **Lobber** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:04 pm

Supersheep gives away the answer, so don't MOUSE-OVER his spoiler unless you completely give up.

Flabby Chick · Post by **Flabby Chick** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:11 pm

He's a She Sheepdog Lob'.

Lobber · Post by **Lobber** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:13 pm

Thanks for the clarification.

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:14 pm

I had to look. I have no patience for this kind of stuff.

Vertigo 99 · Post by **Vertigo 99** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:41 pm

yea, the only reason it took me so long the first time i did it was because my brother was showing it to me (he was trying to figure it out too), and he didn't tell me what the name of the game was (he didn't know it was important

)

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:51 pm

I just got it, after reading Xeon's un-spoilered post.

I probably would have figured it out eventually, but I'm of the type that likes to look at the answer if I have no clue what's going on.

Stryker · Post by **Stryker** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:53 pm

Reminds me of the Card Game.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:14 pm

Figured it out as soon as I hit "check" on the first roll. Took me longer to read the instructions than to figure out the puzzle.

XeonJr · Post by **XeonJr** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:28 pm

LOL at lothars math

roid · Post by **roid** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:04 pm

the only thing you are supposed to be told about the game is:

- the name of the game.
- the answers are always even.
- every roll i will (or in this case, the computer will) tell you the correct answer for that particular roll.

that's it.

you are considered to have figured out the puzzle if you can give the correct answer to many consecutively correct rolls. this is to prevent you from trying to explain it and giving away to those around you who havn't got it yet.

[spoiler]it's a strange puzzle, i think it tests your ability - or willingness - to use your imagination to solve problems.[/spoiler]

Tetrad · Post by **Tetrad** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:21 pm

Another name for this is "polar bears around the fishing hole".

Drakona · Post by **Drakona** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:51 pm

Had it on the second roll. My first guess was to look for a max. Sum was my second try.

Puzzle name gives it away too easily, suggesting a geometric pattern and narrowing it down to a few possible ones. A more neutral title might yield a better measure of creative pattern-finding without the element of unriddling.

[edit: Hmm. It takes smarter people longer to figure out? I don't know about that. If you ask me, both perseverence and creativity are necessary for good problem-solving; this problem punishes the one and rewards the other, but a good thinker will consciously balance the two.

Just for fun, though, here are the results of the thread so far, in ascending order of time-to-completion:

Plebian (immediately)
roid (first roll)
Lothar (first roll)
Drakona (second roll)
XeonJr (30 seconds)

Genghis (couple minutes)
Xsabre (3 minutes)
Flabby Chick ("quite quick")
Avder (5 minutes)

Vertigo99 (20 - 30 mins)
Testiculese (30 mins)
Lobber (Time to roll it 30 times + type those results)

akula65 (over an hour)

Dedman (gave up)

]

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:41 pm

Guess I'm a dumbass

akula65 · Post by **akula65** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:19 pm

It took me over an hour to find the solution. The rose petal concept actually suggested a link between the dice rolls in my mind (petals overlap in a real rose), so it took eight rolls and two zeros before I abandoned a class of potential solutions in order to see the real one.

I also think the distribution of the resulting numbers can affect how long it takes some people (like me) to see the solution. All eight rolls were ten or less.

Drakona · Post by **Drakona** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:58 pm

Upon further reflection, several methods suggest themselves, some more labor-intensive than others.

Method 1:
[spoiler]
1. Sum the odd dice.
2. Subtract the number of odd dice.
[/spoiler]

Method 2:
[spoiler]
1. Subtract one from each die individually.
2. Multiply all the results together (ignore the zeroes).
3. Square the result.
3. Convert to binary.
4. Count the zeroes at the end of the number.
[/spoiler]

Method 3:
[spoiler]
1. Roll the dice.
2. PM Lothar with the result and ask, "How many petals around the rose on this roll?"
[/spoiler]

Hehehehe!!

Genghis · Post by **Genghis** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:23 pm

It took me a couple of minutes. I normally think very analytically so I expected to be there all night!

akula65 · Post by **akula65** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:36 pm

Methinks the Princess of Parallelograms is having way too much fun with this.

roid · Post by **roid** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:38 pm

put me down for getting it immediately on the first roll drac. (sorry, i edited it outof my post before)

JMEaT · Post by **JMEaT** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:42 pm

Dedman wrote:Guess I'm a dumbass

I'm with you then, heh. Math = No.

roid · Post by **roid** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:54 pm

come on guys. you can still do it.

XSabre · Post by **XSabre** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:59 pm

a friend showed me this about 2 weeks ago. Took me 3 minutes to figure out. Last friday i went and showed this to some of my teachers. Only 1 of them has figured it out so far, heh!

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:04 pm

I don't understand why it doesn't say "Petals Around the Roses"

JMeaT wrote:I'm with you then, heh. Math = No.

If you have all of your fingers and toes, no math is necessary.

Vindicator · Post by **Vindicator** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:21 pm

Drakona wrote:Method 3:
[spoiler]
1. Roll the dice.
2. PM Lothar with the result and ask, "How many petals around the rose on this roll?"
[/spoiler]

Hehehehe!!

Dont you, like, live with the guy? Cant you just walk into the next room and ask him?

Drakona · Post by **Drakona** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:48 pm

LOL @ Akula.

Vindicator, of course I could. I was generalizing--you know, to make an algorithm anyone could use to solve the problem. 'Course, that method method might involve some error depending on how playful he's feeling.

(That's got to sound weird to people skipping the spoilers... )

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:56 pm

Took me about 5 minutes. Like others, I didn't get it until I started thinking about why they called it "Petals around the Rose."

Plebeian · Post by **Plebeian** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:36 am

Jeff250 wrote:Like others, I didn't get it until I started thinking about why they called it "Petals around the Rose."

Yep, that's actually the first thing I did, though. I guess my actual time would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-20 seconds. Click Roll, then ask myself why the hell they called it that (since that's the only clue they give). Came up with a guess pretty quickly, punched it in, clicked Check, and was right. Ran it a few more times just to make sure I wasn't just lucky.

It's basically just testing how imaginative you are. Though I suppose given enough dice and answers, you can find a formula to describe it all if you aren't all that imaginative.

Lobber · Post by **Lobber** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:20 am

That's exactly what I did. I rolled it more than 30 times. I probably rolled it 100's of times adding, subtracting, doing various formulas, linear equations etc. Then I wrote down every roll and its result, and began to analyze the results. I finally figured out which rolls worked out to which results. I knew how to find the answer, but I didn't know why it was that way until a minute later when I realized, by looking at the dice, and not the numbers, what the rose and petals meant.

Vertigo 99 · Post by **Vertigo 99** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:26 pm

yea i did more or less what lobber did; had no idea that the name of the game was significant at all

Pun · Post by **Pun** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:19 pm

1 minute