Islam, religion of peace...

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Thu May 19, 2005 2:44 am

The following are excerpts from a Friday sermon on Palestinian Authority TV. The preacher is Sheik Ibrahim Mudeiris. PA TV aired this sermon on May 13, 2005

Ibrahim Mudeiris: Allah has tormented us with "the people most hostile to the believers" â?? the Jews. "Thou shalt find that the people most hostile to the believers to be the Jews and the polytheists." Allah warned His beloved Prophet Muhammad about the Jews, who had killed their prophets, forged their Torah, and sowed corruption throughout their history.

With the establishment of the state of Israel, the entire Islamic nation was lost, because Israel is a cancer spreading through the body of the Islamic nation, and because the Jews are a virus resembling AIDS, from which the entire world suffers.

You will find that the Jews were behind all the civil strife in this world. The Jews are behind the suffering of the nations.

Ask Britain what it did to the Jews in the early sixth century. What did they do to the Jews? They expelled them, tortured them, and prevented them from entering Britain for more than 300 years. All this was because of what the Jews did in Britain. Ask France what it did to the Jews. They tortured them, expelled them, and burned their Talmud, because of the civil strife the Jews wanted to spark in France, in the days of Louis XIX. Ask Portugal what it did to the Jews. Ask Czarists Russia, which welcomed the Jews, who plotted to kill the Czar - so he massacred them. But don't ask Germany what it did to the Jews. It was the Jews who provoked Nazism to wage war against the entire world, when the Jews, using the Zionist movement, got other countries to wage an economic war on Germany and to boycott German merchandise. They provoked Russia, Britain, France, and Italy. This enraged the Germans toward the Jews, leading to the events of those days, which the Jews commemorating today.

But they are committing worse deeds than those done to them in the Nazi war. Yes, perhaps some of them were killed and some burned, but they are inflating this in order to win over the of the media and gain the world's sympathy. The worst crimes in history were committed against the Jews, yet these crimes are no worse than what the Jews are doing in Palestine. What was done to the Jews was a crime, but isn't what the Jews are doing today in the land of Palestine not a crime?!

Look at modern history. Where has Great Britain gone? Where has Czarist Russia gone? Where has France gone - France, which almost ruled the entire world? Where is Nazi Germany, which massacred millions and ruled the world? Where did all these superpowers go? He who made them disappear will make America disappear too, God willing. He who made Russia disappear overnight is capable of making America disappear and fall, Allah willing.

We have ruled the world before, and by Allah, the day will come when we will rule the entire world again. The day will come when we will rule America. The day will come when we will rule Britain and the entire world â?? except for the Jews. The Jews will not enjoy a life of tranquility under our rule, because they are treacherous by nature, as they have been throughout history. The day will come when everything will be relieved of the Jews - even the stones and trees which were harmed by them. Listen to the Prophet Muhammad, who tells you about the evil end that awaits Jews. The stones and trees will want the Muslims to finish off every Jew.

Cuda68-2 · Post by **Cuda68-2** » Thu May 19, 2005 2:54 am

I hear ya loud and clear. They are scary people who talk peace and kindness to the world and preach hate to there own people. They have been this way for thousands of years. So Russia gives them heavy water reactors vrs light water for power purposes only {in a pigs eye} and really expect us to believe this. I am afraid the world in general does not see this though, to many bleeding heart liberals.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Thu May 19, 2005 5:33 am

I'm wondering how many christians would run around rioting and killing each other is someone reported the bible was flushed down a toilet.

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Thu May 19, 2005 6:33 am

woodchip wrote:I'm wondering how many christians would run around rioting and killing each other is someone reported the bible was flushed down a toilet.

Go back to the time of the Crusades, and I bet it would be no small number.

Stryker · Post by **Stryker** » Thu May 19, 2005 7:29 am

You'll also note that not many Christians in that case would even KNOW about the event--there would be no Newsweek article spreading around with world in 7 languages proclaiming "BIBLE DESECRATED!"

You'll also note, hopefully, that a very small minority of the "Christians" in Europe were actually Christians. They were called Catholic, but they were most certainly NOT Christians.

Flabby Chick · Post by **Flabby Chick** » Thu May 19, 2005 11:13 am

Do me a favour. It dosn't matter which version of the God system you choose to use, once you get fanatical about it, you're fish food as far as i'm concerned.

The plonker that Thunderbunny quoted was just that...a plonker. There are Jewish plonkers, and there are christian plonkers. The plonker that was quoted, i have a feeling, really poured it on because there's been "elections" recently in gaza so he was probably trying to drum up a bit of support.

I work with people who have islamic beliefs, i like them very very much. They're not plonkers.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Thu May 19, 2005 12:08 pm

woodchip wrote:I'm wondering how many christians would run around rioting and killing each other is someone reported the bible was flushed down a toilet.

You do realize the NEA (that's the National Endowment for the Arts -- US federal government program) sponsored a project called piss Christ, right? Material: plastic crucifix in urine with cow's blood.

Do you remember any riots or beheadings over that? Yeah, that's what I thought.

edit: for FC: what's disturbing is the sheer number of "plonkers" in Islam, and the power they wield.

Flabby Chick · Post by **Flabby Chick** » Thu May 19, 2005 12:21 pm

What is disturbing is the number of sound "bites" the islamic plonkers get from the ratings addicted world media that feed off an insecure audience.

Don't get me wrong, i have no sympathies with them, i'm just saying hold on, step back a bit; but you knew that anyway no?

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Thu May 19, 2005 12:37 pm

At least here in the US, they don't get nearly the soundbites they should. I doubt even most people on the DBB are aware of the level of (saudi-funded) propaganda that shows up in major mosques in the US, or the level of nutjobbery that's on middle eastern TV.

A lot of the media in your part of the world (outside of Israel, I'd assume) broadcasts these plonkers' messages all the time. MEMRI translates bits and pieces, and I have a feeling if people paid more attention to what MEMRI translates there would be a lot more support for the WoT. The problem is, most people in most western countries either think:

1) all Muslims are terrorists, or
2) most Muslims hold no ill will toward the US whatsoever, and the extremists and terrorists are a tiny and relatively powerless minority

The truth is, most Muslims are nice people who only hold ill will toward the US because their state media and their mosques have told them time and time again that the US is a zionist entity. The biggest problem is, simply put, that the extremists have control of the state media and the extremists give messages in mosques and the extremists run the colleges and the extremists run the government and the extremists influence public opinion far more than is healthy. I'd be like if the KKK ran 80% of the programming on US TV for the last 50 years, and everyone grew up watching it. Of course you're going to get a lot of "plonkers" out of a situation like that.

To hear the soldiers on the ground in Iraq tell it, at least people learn quickly from their own experience. Once they've actually interacted with Americans, not nearly as many retain the sort of hostility they do. But as long as people's opinions of this country (and of Israel) come from the extremists on their TV's and in their governments, there are going to be a lot of plonkers...

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Thu May 19, 2005 12:44 pm

He who controls the information, controls...

Flabby Chick · Post by **Flabby Chick** » Thu May 19, 2005 12:49 pm

Three short points:

1) Bloody hell man you can type fast.
2) Good link/post.
3) Nutjobbery is now my new word of the week.

...big hug everyone.

1ACE1 · Post by **1ACE1** » Thu May 19, 2005 5:36 pm

Nobody really knows of the thousands of Bible burnings done by the muslims. Many of these are Bibles taken directly from people at gunpoint. Besides the thousands of Bibles burned in other countries.

Birdseye · Post by **Birdseye** » Thu May 19, 2005 10:33 pm

Why do you hate America?

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Thu May 19, 2005 10:45 pm

Today's Wall Street Journal featured editorial (here) is right on:

As a Muslim, I am able to purchase copies of the Quran in any bookstore in any American city, and study its contents in countless American universities. American museums spend millions to exhibit and celebrate Muslim arts and heritage. On the other hand, my Christian and other non-Muslim brothers and sisters in Saudi Arabia--where I come from--are not even allowed to own a copy of their holy books. Indeed, the Saudi government desecrates and burns Bibles that its security forces confiscate at immigration points into the kingdom or during raids on Christian expatriates worshiping privately.

....

The lesson here is simple: If Muslims wish other religions to respect their beliefs and their Holy book, they should lead by example.

roid · Post by **roid** » Fri May 20, 2005 12:21 am

Saudi Arabia is NOT a shining example of Islam.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Fri May 20, 2005 12:23 am

roid wrote:Saudi Arabia is NOT a shining example of Islam.

Unfortunately, neither are most of the other Muslim nations.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Fri May 20, 2005 12:32 am

Mixing up extremism and moderates is a very dangerous thing.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Fri May 20, 2005 5:12 am

Lothar, you forgot to mention the excrement covered Madonna.
On the news the other day it was noted that something like 80% of the bombers in Iraq that blow themselves up to kill Iraqui's...are Saudi's. If any indication of how monstrous the variants of Islam are, it is how the faith is used to justify suicide to kill fellow muslums. How ever you slice it, how ever many times it is said Islam is a faith of peace...there is enough written in it to show the mirrored house of horrors that the Quran really is.

Tyranny · Post by **Tyranny** » Fri May 20, 2005 1:33 pm

Yeesh...

and they'll rule the world? riiiight....

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Fri May 20, 2005 2:37 pm

Tyranny, I think your current avatar is fits my opinion from time to time very well; the only thing that will cure the situation within the next 5-10-50 years would be a nuclear holocaust.

dissent · Post by **dissent** » Fri May 20, 2005 5:08 pm

roid wrote:Saudi Arabia is NOT a shining example of Islam.

Yeah, but it is where the major holy sites are, for the hajj, etc.

Krom,
I think a well placed asteroid hit might also do the trick, or a good supervolcano eruption. Maybe that the problem with humanity, not quite evolved enough, so it may eventually hit a critical mass that will lead to its extinction, or even nearly so, such that something new can evolve ...

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Fri May 20, 2005 5:53 pm

I think I read somewhere that the end result of 99.99% of evolution is extinction, so lets evolve!

Tyranny · Post by **Tyranny** » Sat May 21, 2005 12:10 am

I find it fitting because it represents the dualities of human nature. On the one hand the majority of us can agree that we want peace in this world. I would think that is something universal worldwide. However, on the other hand the world at large continues to develop technologies that have the potential to kill people in greater numbers. Peace is all relative to each country's ideals of what is most beneficial to them.

Unfortunately history has shown that for the most part peace generally follows in the wake of great violence. Whether or not that violence is noble or not is for history to decide. Peace and War are one of the ultimate human struggles. One is hard to maintain without forcing the other.

Alright...that was completely off topic. Sorry about that.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Sat May 21, 2005 1:24 am

There was an interesting column in the Boston Globe Thursday.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Sat May 21, 2005 5:34 am

To the point:

"It is what totalitarian Muslim zealots have been doing to innocent human beings in the name of Islam. It is 9/11 and Beslan and Bali and Daniel Pearl and the USS Cole. It is trains in Madrid and schoolbuses in Israel and an ''insurgency" in Iraq that slaughters Muslims as they pray and vote and line up for work. It is Hamas and Al Qaeda and sermons filled with infidel-hatred and exhortations to ''martyrdom."

While Newsweek is to be held to blame for a rush to print and should accept its role in the aftermath, one has to understand the muslum community at large bears the greater responsibilty by allowing fanatics to flame adolescent like passions to the point of murder. I'm rapidily coming to the conclusion that the world would be a better place if Islam was eradicated as a religion.

dissent · Post by **dissent** » Sat May 21, 2005 7:40 am

Well, hang on there Chipper. A little historical perspective. Might not non-Christians have said some similar things about Christianity back in the good old Crusades-days when armies were marching off to liberate the holy land? I think in some earlier times, it was easier to breed this kind of fanaticism in Christianity too.

What I think is missing is just plain courage amongst some of the religious leaders in Islam to just stand up and publicly denounce this kind of thinking. Seems Ayatollah al-Sistani is probably doing this in Iraq, regarding restraining Shiite hothead militias from going after the Sunni communities to avenge Sunni attacks. But if al-Sistani went loud and public about it, the larger Sunni community clerics could just ignore it, and the Wahabists could make some hay about it, because they think the Shiites are heretics anyway. Again, starts to sound like Catholics v. Protestants hundreds of years ago. What's restraining major Sunni clerics from denouncing this violence - I have no answer.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Sun May 22, 2005 8:18 am

edit: changed my mind

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Mon May 23, 2005 12:37 pm

dissent wrote:Might not non-Christians have said some similar things about Christianity back in the good old Crusades-days when armies were marching off to liberate the holy land?

Yes, though the crusades (against Muslims who had conquered large stretches of land in the first 2 centuries of their religion) are a bad example to choose to make your point.

Shoku · Post by **Shoku** » Mon May 23, 2005 3:24 pm

Whenever I get wind of a discussion about Islam and the violence instigated by some who follow that religion, I hang my head and sigh - this problem is not due to a few extrmeists. The violence is due to the religion. In all religions there are liberals (like Sunday Christians who only observe their faith while at chruch), and there are fundamentalists (who practice their religion everyday, and who go to great lengths to live by everything their scriptures tell them. That's the problem. The Koran is very direct when speaking about how true Muslims should relate to those who do not follow the writings of their prophet. These statments, sprinkled throughout the Koran are the real insitgators of violence:

[quote]â??Fight in the cause of Allah with those who fight against you. . . .Kill them wherever they confront you in combat and drive them out. . . Fight against them until there is no more disorder and Allah's supremacy is established. â?? Surah 2: 190 -193

â??What is the matter with you, why are you divided into two groups concerning the hypocrites, while Allah has cast them off on account of their misdeeds? Do you wish to guide those, whom Allah has left to stray? Whomever Allah lets go astray, you cannot find a way for them to be guided. Their real wish is to see that you become a disbeliever, as they themselves have disbelieved, so that you may become equal to them. So, you should not take friends from their ranks unless they immigrate in the way of Allah; and if they do not, seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and do not take any of them as protectors or helpers (friends).â?

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Mon May 23, 2005 4:59 pm

Kinda hard to argue with what Shoku has posted. Perhaps the biggest difference of the faiths is from Lothars link:

"No one recalled, for example, that American Catholics lashed out in violent rampages in 1989, after photographer Andres Serrano's ''Piss Christ" -- a photograph of a crucifix submerged in urine -- was included in an exhibition subsidized by the National Endowment for the Arts. Or that they rioted in 1992 when singer Sinead O'Connor, appearing on ''Saturday Night Live," ripped up a photograph of Pope John Paul II.

There was no reminder that Jewish communities erupted in lethal violence in 2000, after Arabs demolished Joseph's Tomb, torching the ancient shrine and murdering a young rabbi who tried to save a Torah. And nobody noted that Buddhists went on a killing spree in 2001 in response to the destruction of two priceless, 1,500-year-old statues of Buddha by the Taliban government in Afghanistan.

Of course, there was a good reason all these bloody protests went unremembered in the coverage of the Newsweek affair: They never occurred."

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Tue May 24, 2005 7:11 am

My knowledge of the Koran is admittedly virtually non-existent so my observation may be way off base.

I can't help but notice that all of the quotes that Shoku provided are from the same book - Surah. Is there any significance to that?

Do other books of the Koran contain the same type of language?

Pandora · Post by **Pandora** » Tue May 24, 2005 7:27 am

Dedman wrote:Do other books of the Koran contain the same type of language?

I would be surprised (as I was by what Shoku posted). On our way to Manchester Airport we had a Muslim taxi driver who didn't talk to us but listented attentively to Islamic psalms on a cassette. I remember one instance that basically said that in this life Allah would provide believers and non-believers equally with riches and nourishment, and that there would be no discrimination against non-believers in this life. Only in the afterlife would non-believers be singled out (i.e. no access to heaven or whatever).

Shoku · Post by **Shoku** » Tue May 24, 2005 8:57 am

A SURAH in the Koran (or more accurately the AL-Quran)is the same as a CHAPTER in english.

Surah 2 is AL-Baqarah
Surah 4 is An-Nisa
Surah 5 is Al-Maidah
Surah 8 is Al-Anfal
Surah 9 is At-Tauba

There are 114 Surahs (chapters) in the Koran.
These would be considered BOOKS if in the Bible.

Pandora: I am not surprised that the cassette tape said the things you mention. Islam is full of contradictions, as I mentioned above.

Check the the above chapter verses yourself. They are quotes from The English Translation of the Meaning of the Al-Quran, by the Institute of Islamic Knowledge, Houston, Texas. Principle Translator, Muhammad Farooq-i-Azam Malik, Dean of the Institute

Arol · Post by **Arol** » Sun May 29, 2005 5:00 pm

woodchip wrote:...I'm rapidily coming to the conclusion that the world would be a better place if Islam was eradicated as a religion.

Took the words right out my mouth Woody.

The Quran is truly all things to all people. Extremists like Al Qaeda and the radical elements of the Wahabi sects and their like can point to passages in it that call for the killing of infidels. Yet more moderate Muslims can point to passages that call for peace and tolerance. Both are equally valid, both are; to the true believers of Islam. the writen word of their God.
The problem these days are that the fantics are in ascendecy.

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Sun May 29, 2005 5:52 pm

The world would be a much better place if ALL religion were eradicated.

All forms of extremism are misguided.

Stryker · Post by **Stryker** » Sun May 29, 2005 6:26 pm

Explain to me, in that case, Mr. Drive By Poster, Isaac Newton, Galileo, Louis Pasteur, Thomas Edison, Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, and the thousands of other Christians that have improved the world. Explain to me how the African continent, which had pretty much no established religion, needed missionaries to start approximately 85% of its schools. Or perhaps you could explain the fact that Islam was the only force keeping learning alive AT ALL during the Dark Ages. Or perhaps--well, I forget. I'm just wasting my breath; it's not like he'll actually read this thread again.

dissent · Post by **dissent** » Sun May 29, 2005 11:48 pm

Mobius wrote:The world would be a much better place if ALL religion were eradicated.

All forms of extremism are misguided.

Yeah Mobi, including the form of extremism you just advocated.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Mon May 30, 2005 2:36 am

dissent wrote:
Mobius wrote:The world would be a much better place if ALL religion were eradicated.

All forms of extremism are misguided.
Yeah Mobi, including the form of extremism you just advocated.

He may be secular, but he's still a fundamentalist.