Need advice on a new PC, thinking about going AMD.

Vertigo Zer0 · Post by **Vertigo Zer0** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:01 am

Hey everybody, this is Vertigo Zero.

It's been so long since I last posted that my account must've been marked inactive, so I re-registered as Vertigo Zer0.

Anyway, I'm researching what to get for my next PC (my first one since 1998) and I'm thinking maybe the AMD FX-57 (which I've read comes out in a couple of weeks.)

For the people who use the newer Athlons, do you get the sparkles and motion blur that D3 creates using SSE? I'm curious as to the AMD's compatibility with software and features written for Intel chips.

Are you happy with having chosen an AMD? If not, why?

Thanks in advance for your replies. I really appreciate your help because I have no experience with AMD chips.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:36 am

I've had the sparkles and motion blur available ever since I got an Athlon XP, the Athlon 64s all likely have it as well. Personally I disable both the motion blur and the sparkles in the command line, its not something you should use to decide what type of CPU you should get.

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 10:12 am

I'm very pleased with the performance of my recently purchased (Feb '05) AMD Athlon 64 3000+ (skt 939)
system. I built a budget gamer, with 1 GB RAM + Geforce FX 6600 GT factory overclocked.

I pull adequate frames in all new games from WoW to HL2/CS:S (60-80) at with nice moderate-to-high quality settings. I only get around 333 FPS in Descent 3, but I haven't even bothered to tweak that.

Vertigo Zer0 · Post by **Vertigo Zer0** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 10:29 am

Thanks Krom.

You're right about not using that as the deciding factor, of course. Though it is nice to know that I won't be missing anything in D3 (I like the sparkles) if I go with AMD.

Vertigo Zer0 · Post by **Vertigo Zer0** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 10:57 am

WarAdvocat wrote:I pull adequate frames in all new games from WoW to HL2/CS:S (60-80) at with nice moderate-to-high quality settings. I only get around 333 FPS in Descent 3, but I haven't even bothered to tweak that.

Dang, 60-80 FPS in HL2 is great compared to my less than 30 (at the lowest possible detail settings), and the 333 FPS in D3 is just mind-blowing.

So how about this question: The FX-57 or the dual-core X2? Both are ready for 64-bit games, but only the X2 can handle two simultaneous threads. The X2 is almost as fast as the FX-55 in games, so I think its gaming performance is acceptable.

Which would you get?

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:23 pm

Dual cores are only useful if you are running a OS that a supports them, XP Pro, Win 2003, and win 2000 support them, XP home doesn't.

Vertigo Zer0 · Post by **Vertigo Zer0** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:22 pm

Correct.

I'm ordering from Falcon Northwest like I did back in '98, and they install XP Pro if you order a dual core CPU.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:18 pm

Getting a dual core depends a lot on how you use the computer. If all you do is play games and run office applications or a web browser one at a time, there is no need for the major multitasking performance of the X2, you would just be wasting your money on a second CPU core that would spend 99.9999% of its life idle.

I am planning on my next upgrade being to dual core, however you have to look at how I use my computer. I have two monitors and it isn't that rare that I want to do more then one demanding or CPU intensive task at the same time. Often I am running some application and my whole computer slows to a crawl because that one task is taking up most of my systems resources. If you don't run many tasks in the background or you only run one application at a time, there is no need to get the X2.

Max_T · Post by **Max_T** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:08 pm

I don't recommend getting FX-57 simply becuase of its price. I mean, the only differnce is that FX-57 has an unlocked multiplier. Save yourself some $ and go for venice, or if you want 1MB L2 cache so much, get a 3700+ or 4000+ San Diego.

I am a month or so away from building my new system too, so i'll keep an eye on what stuff you get and how it all works out.

Vertigo Zer0 · Post by **Vertigo Zer0** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:24 pm

Max_T wrote:I don't recommend getting FX-57 simply becuase of its price. I mean, the only differnce is that FX-57 has an unlocked multiplier. Save yourself some $ and go for venice, or if you want 1MB L2 cache so much, get a 3700+ or 4000+ San Diego.

I am a month or so away from building my new system too, so i'll keep an eye on what stuff you get and how it all works out.

From what I've read the FX-57's features are very impressive and worth the extra cash.

The FX-57 is supposed to be clocked at 2.8 GHz vs. the FX-55's 2.6 GHz, includes SSE3 support, and is the first FX chip on the new .9 micron process. Because it's at .9 microns, it should run cooler; in fact it's been reported that the FX-57 overclocks to 3 GHz quite easily with the stock fan.

I'm going to wait a little to find out how soon the GeForce 7800's are going to be released, seeing as how they are supposed to double the power of the 6800's. If it's only a few months I'll wait.

Also, the new Creative X-Fi based sound cards are due out in about a week, so waiting a little bit will let me pick one of those up instead of an Audigy 2 ZS.

I think I lucked out and picked a good year to buy a new PC!

Top Wop · Post by **Top Wop** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:02 am

Ill be building a new rig in a month, but im short on cash. You can easily take the lowly 3000 and overclock it like hell without using water cooling. You can get the clock frequency to rival an FX51. I think Stresstest did that a few months back and its a route I think I will be taking as well.

suicide eddie · Post by **suicide eddie** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:09 pm

if used for gaming theres a growing trend of gamemakers to use very large maps in mem and updating them as you proceed ie `boiling point`and with the bottleneck that most pcs have at the moment how about just buying a moderate cpu and spending the extra on sata2+raid?

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:04 pm

7800 release date is (supposedly) 20th June. And (supposedly) there'll be good supplies at that date.

The only argument I have against the FX chip line is this: it's not cost effective computing. A Venice Core 3800+ costs a huge bundle less, and the money saved can be put into buying the absolute fastest RAM available, thereby closing the gap to the FX chip performance. Also, you'd have enough money left to make a RAID 1 array: double the safety, and much faster read performance.

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:56 pm

Mobius wrote:7800 release date is (supposedly) 20th June. And (supposedly) there'll be good supplies at that date.

The only argument I have against the FX chip line is this: it's not cost effective computing. A Venice Core 3800+ costs a huge bundle less, and the money saved can be put into buying the absolute fastest RAM available, thereby closing the gap to the FX chip performance. Also, you'd have enough money left to make a RAID 1 array: double the safety, and much faster read performance.

I agree with mobius, the FX is a rich boy chip

Buy a cheaper chip, OC it and out perform the expensive chips. I run my 3200 Venice @ 2850MHz and it only cost me $200.

Max_T · Post by **Max_T** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:03 pm

Vertigo Zer0 wrote: From what I've read the FX-57's features are very impressive and worth the extra cash.

The FX-57 is supposed to be clocked at 2.8 GHz vs. the FX-55's 2.6 GHz, includes SSE3 support, and is the first FX chip on the new .9 micron process. Because it's at .9 microns, it should run cooler; in fact it's been reported that the FX-57 overclocks to 3 GHz quite easily with the stock fan.

The only difference FX chips have is the unlocked multiplier. THe venice and san diego cores i mentioned also have sse3 support (not that you'll need it for anything), and they are also .9 process. FX chips have 1MB L2 cache, which is not very noticable, but it gives a small improvement in some applications. So if 1MB L2 cache is important for you, you can get the san diego core. 3700+ seems to be the sweet spot (most overclock quite well).

I mean, you can get an FX chip if you need the unlocked multiplier for some seriour overclocking, but otherwise it's a waste of money.

Vertigo Zer0 · Post by **Vertigo Zer0** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 11:44 pm

Man, you guys take all the fun out of spending money!

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 7:46 am

On the contrary, I think they make it MORE fun!

Capm · Post by **Capm** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:03 pm

Whatever you go with, it'll be fast enough, but a word about stability and workability -
Don't cheap out, get the name brand you'll be glad you did.
Don't put an ATI video card on an nVidia motherboard. Its just asking for trouble.
Get a good powersupply - 400 watts+ Antec or a redundant I-Star .. there are others that are good, but I recommend those two the most.
Get a big, good case - anything based on Chieftec is good. Nothing worse than cramped quarters and sharp edges.

Personally, I'd get an SLI motherboard even if I was only getting one video card at the time - that way you have room for upgrade there..

BUBBALOU · Post by **BUBBALOU** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:08 pm

get the Falcon Northwest Mach V Machine!!

AMD for GAMES
Intel for GAMES and APPS..

A Choice as basic as you can get!

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:12 pm

Capm wrote:Whatever you go with, it'll be fast enough, but a word about stability and workability -
Don't cheap out, get the name brand you'll be glad you did.
Don't put an ATI video card on an nVidia motherboard. Its just asking for trouble.
Get a good powersupply - 400 watts+ Antec or a redundant I-Star .. there are others that are good, but I recommend those two the most.
Get a big, good case - anything based on Chieftec is good. Nothing worse than cramped quarters and sharp edges.

Personally, I'd get an SLI motherboard even if I was only getting one video card at the time - that way you have room for upgrade there..

I'll agree with most of that, except the ATI video card in Nvidia board bit, seen it done plenty of times with no problems (ask virtually anyone using an Athlon 64 and ATI video card).

Also, I have a fortron source 530 watt PSU, recently I was running 5 hard drives, my overclocked CPU & Video card all at the same time off it, the air coming out of the back of the PSU wasnt even warm. OCZ also makes very good PSUs but they are quite expensive. I got this one for $70.

Plague · Post by **Plague** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:40 pm

Krom wrote: I'll agree with most of that, except the ATI video card in Nvidia board bit, seen it done plenty of times with no problems (ask virtually anyone using an Athlon 64 and ATI video card).

I'll second that. AMD64, NForce 3 board and ATI X800 Pro here. Never had a problem.

Admiral LSD · Post by **Admiral LSD** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:54 pm

Not exactly Athlon 64, but my 9500 Pro has worked happily in both the nForce2 motherboards I've used it in.

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:20 pm

Krom wrote: I'll agree with most of that, except the ATI video card in Nvidia board bit, seen it done plenty of times with no problems (ask virtually anyone using an Athlon 64 and ATI video card).

Ditto, I have NEVER herd anyone complain about this combo.

Vertigo Zer0 · Post by **Vertigo Zer0** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:43 pm

BUBBALOU wrote:get the Falcon Northwest Mach V Machine!!

AMD for GAMES
Intel for GAMES and APPS..

A Choice as basic as you can get!

That's exactly what I'm going to do. As soon as the FX-57 (still might go with the X2 4800+), GeForce 7800 vid cards, and X-Fi sound cards are out, I'm giving Falcon a call. I anticipate end of this month or beginning of next month.

With a four-week build time, I'll have my new PC for the beginning of August.

It's gonna cost a bundle, but I've got the wife's permission to get the best! Gotta love the wife!

Capm · Post by **Capm** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:55 am

Well, the reason I say that is I've seen some cases with driver issues (altho lately the newer drivers haven't been having this problem)

and - the nvidia video cards tend to perform better with nforce than the ati on average. Granted, its only a slight difference.

Admiral LSD · Post by **Admiral LSD** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:42 am

How "lately" are you talking? I've had this card for over two years now and used various versions of the ATi Catalysts (which, to be frank, have given me much, much less trouble on the whole than nVidia's drivers) from 3.2/3.4 all the way up to the latest 5.6 and it's been as smooth as glass the whole time.

Vertigo Zer0 · Post by **Vertigo Zer0** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:03 am

So now the 7800 is out and it looks very good.

After reading a few reviews I don't think it will matter that they don't have a 512MB version at release. The 256MB version should run DOOM 3 at Ultra Quality just fine.

Now I just have to wait for the X-Fi sound card and the FX-57.

Incidentally, I read at the Falcon Northwest website that they will overclock your CPU for you at your request, and it will still be under their warranty. With that in mind, I'll ask them to take the FX-57 to at least 3 GHz, and higher if air cooling can handle it.

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:50 pm

any word on when the X-fi sound cards are coming out?

Vertigo Zer0 · Post by **Vertigo Zer0** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:02 pm

Hmmm... now that I checked soundblaster.com again, the countdown says five days to the next release of X-Fi info. I had thought the countdown was to the release of the card itself.

I hope they release it in the next couple of weeks!

Ned · Post by **Ned** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:14 pm

AMD Athlon64 3000 2Ghz
1 Gb RAM
GeFORCE 6800

works very well
freezes, blue screens, etc, NEVER happen
the most stable computer ever owned, had quite a few Dell/Intels before making this one with DBB help

Max_T · Post by **Max_T** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 3:54 am

Vertigo Zer0 wrote:Hmmm... now that I checked soundblaster.com again, the countdown says five days to the next release of X-Fi info. I had thought the countdown was to the release of the card itself.

I hope they release it in the next couple of weeks!

The count down was for some new information..then it restarts for some newer information, and so on.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 7:06 am

If you get the right NF4 motherboard, a sound blaster will be very irrelevant. The onboard audio on many of the latest motherboards is better then any current offering from creative labs.

Vertigo Zer0 · Post by **Vertigo Zer0** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:52 am

OK guys, this is it, I'm calling Falcon today.

What would you get, the FX-57 or the X2 4800+?

This is an either-or question fellas, not neither-nor. No substitutions. Which would you rather have?

Thanks!

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:58 am

I would get the 4800+.

What you should get is a matter of how you use your computer. I use my computer in heavy multi-tasking often enough and actually do not play video games that much. I definitely have a use for a dual core.

In the past I used to play a lot of video games and tightly control the tasks that were running in my systems background so I could extract the maximum performance out of my CPU for that one video game I was playing, if I still used my computer like that I would get the FX-57.

Vertigo Zer0 · Post by **Vertigo Zer0** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 1:58 pm

The order has been placed!

ICON Aluminum Chassis
Silverstone 650Watt Power Supply
Windows XP Home
Asus A8N-SLI Premium Motherboard
AMD Athlon64 FX-57 (Falcon's going to try to OC it as far as they can on air)
Zalman ZNPS7000LED ALCU
Corsair TwinX 2048MB 3200XL-PT (4/512MB)
2x nVidia GeForce 7800 GTX 256MB PCIE
2x Maxtor DM-10 300GB SATA 16MB Cache (no raid)
Sony 16X DVD-ROM
Audigy II ZS Platinum

I should be set for quite some time with this rig!

Capm · Post by **Capm** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:15 pm

DOH! Black Flagged on the last lap!

XP Home = Crap
Get XP Pro

Vertigo Zer0 · Post by **Vertigo Zer0** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:40 pm

I can always change the order, that's not a problem.

Is XP Pro is that much better? I have no experience with it, so I don't know.

Enlighten me, if you would be so kind.

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:40 pm

Yeah, if you're gonna get something that high end, might as well get XP Pro, too.

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:19 pm

I would also switch to XP pro.

And GL OCing with the 4 dimms =)
Most people have trouble posting with 4 dimms at rated speeds with the Venice's & SD's, let alone getting good clocks with them. But the FX memory controler might be better so who knows.

Sexy setup u got there tho, Wish I had the money for that

I would of went with the X2 tho

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:20 pm

Lol true, get 2x 1GB DIMMs, not like your budget can't handle it from the looks of the rest of the system.