I've been working at growing a 'third eye' lately, so I've been browsing the web alot.
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/hea ... 524881.400
Ok so in DBB 'cafe style', does anyone here have any comments or experiences they'd like to relate regarding the theaputic values of such substances ?
MDMA therapy is quite intrieguing to me, given I have had only one extasy experience way back in 1983.
How a psychedelic experience unfolds is always a function of set and setting, does anyone have examples of this axiom to relate.
Psychedelic therapies
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El Ka Bong
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Mobius
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I've only ever dropped a few half-trips of LSD - and never any ecstacy, so I'm not really qualified to speak about the effects, but what I can speak to is political will: There is none.
Western governments will never tolerate psychedelic drugs as a treatment for anything. The conservatives of this world don't want you to enjoy any hallucinogens at all - ever - period. Hell, they can't even decriminalise pot for goodness sake - how could you imagine them sanctioning the use Lysergic acid?
Western governments will never tolerate psychedelic drugs as a treatment for anything. The conservatives of this world don't want you to enjoy any hallucinogens at all - ever - period. Hell, they can't even decriminalise pot for goodness sake - how could you imagine them sanctioning the use Lysergic acid?
true that Mobi.
Ketamine used to be known as the worlds best general anesthetic. But as a "dissociative" many patients did not like it's somewhat "out of body" experiences it gave. Not like they had a choice though.
When alternative anesthetics were developed, Ketamine became a controlled substance and treated by authoritys as merely a halucinogen (and therefore illegal).
(but because of it's inherent safety (only minimal surpression of breathing and heart function compared to other anethetics), it's still the most favoured general anesthetic used by vets
. It's legal for our animals to trip out i guess)
Ketamine used to be known as the worlds best general anesthetic. But as a "dissociative" many patients did not like it's somewhat "out of body" experiences it gave. Not like they had a choice though.
When alternative anesthetics were developed, Ketamine became a controlled substance and treated by authoritys as merely a halucinogen (and therefore illegal).
(but because of it's inherent safety (only minimal surpression of breathing and heart function compared to other anethetics), it's still the most favoured general anesthetic used by vets
. It's legal for our animals to trip out i guess)
Edit: I wouldn't go around telling people that salvia is safe. The fact is, not much is known about this herb and it's long term effects. Some claim it messes with your brain bigtime and can have long term side effects. Some even go as far as to say it can trigger Schizophrenia.Sting_Ray wrote:Salvia Divinora.
I don't recommend it, but if you want a killer trip... go buy some at the local head shop. It's safe, not tested for, and legal in 48 states.
Ugh, intense... but makes you think afterwards.
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El Ka Bong
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Salvia Divinorum trips are a harmaline high I think... never tried it. I would avoid those strange brew that make you puke. 'Modern shamanism' offers it's advantages when you can purify the substance a little more than making a 'tea'...
Ketamine I would try, but I'd need a nurse to do the injection part... ( 'modern shamanism' ..)
But reading the article I linked, when we "theraputically" apply these substances, and healing does occur, I begin to wonder how long until their true value is known again to us modern folk, and the laws change.
This is ancient knowledge after all, 15,000 year old shamanic practices are now back in the doctor's office.
One of the most amazing uses of LSD-25 I have read about is when Gary Fisher in the early 1960's treated children with extreme mental and psychological problems using LSD.
Kids as young as 3, 7, 8 and 11 years old were treated. These kids were completely non-responsive, self mutilatory, non communicative, and suffering other horrors like marasmus. These kids were being cared for in a sanitarium where treatments included being bound to a bed for 24 hours to 'protect them' from themselves.
These kids were 'cured' or made as normal as could be expected with, get this, theaputic doses of 300 - 400 micrograms of LSD .. That is a huge dose ! One kid, who spoke to no one, and suffered marasmus, in mid-trip suddenly spoke out, saying to doctor Fisher "I have a long way to go, just stay out of my way"... never having spoken before. After this mind blitzing treatment this child became responsive, talked and eventually 'recovered' social capacities, and intellect, displaying intense manipulative intelligence over the ward staff. But this is old news, over 40 years old.
The modern work with psychedelics also looks at migrane headache sufferers, which seems so 'un-psychological'. (Migranes involve serotonin's HT-5 receptors, and LSD is a serotonin analogue...)
I wonder if anyone has any experience along the lines of the therapeutic uses of psychedleics, from personal 'recreational' experiences to actually perscribed, in a psychologists office experiences..? Or do we just dabble occassionally in 'chemical amusement aids'.?
Ketamine I would try, but I'd need a nurse to do the injection part... ( 'modern shamanism' ..)
But reading the article I linked, when we "theraputically" apply these substances, and healing does occur, I begin to wonder how long until their true value is known again to us modern folk, and the laws change.
This is ancient knowledge after all, 15,000 year old shamanic practices are now back in the doctor's office.
One of the most amazing uses of LSD-25 I have read about is when Gary Fisher in the early 1960's treated children with extreme mental and psychological problems using LSD.
Kids as young as 3, 7, 8 and 11 years old were treated. These kids were completely non-responsive, self mutilatory, non communicative, and suffering other horrors like marasmus. These kids were being cared for in a sanitarium where treatments included being bound to a bed for 24 hours to 'protect them' from themselves.
These kids were 'cured' or made as normal as could be expected with, get this, theaputic doses of 300 - 400 micrograms of LSD .. That is a huge dose ! One kid, who spoke to no one, and suffered marasmus, in mid-trip suddenly spoke out, saying to doctor Fisher "I have a long way to go, just stay out of my way"... never having spoken before. After this mind blitzing treatment this child became responsive, talked and eventually 'recovered' social capacities, and intellect, displaying intense manipulative intelligence over the ward staff. But this is old news, over 40 years old.
The modern work with psychedelics also looks at migrane headache sufferers, which seems so 'un-psychological'. (Migranes involve serotonin's HT-5 receptors, and LSD is a serotonin analogue...)
I wonder if anyone has any experience along the lines of the therapeutic uses of psychedleics, from personal 'recreational' experiences to actually perscribed, in a psychologists office experiences..? Or do we just dabble occassionally in 'chemical amusement aids'.?
as with so many things, "your mileage may vary"
1st if your head is seriously screwed up, you will most likely screw it up worse taking any legal/illegal drug.
2nd unless you are cautious, do some research (books, close friend's experiences, observation) and have a supplier you really can trust, you are very likely to not get:
a. the actual chemical that you wanted.
b. the correct/safe dosage.
c. the insight/high/visions you hoped for.
3rd do "whatever" in a controlled environment;
a. limited/no access to you by people who might f*** with your head
b. with only CLOSE, GOOD friends. (i mean folks who have taken sh** for/from you and are still friends and who are intelligent, thoughtful, resourceful and
agree with what you are doing.
c. safe, private, police free surroundings with no nosy neighbors/parents/spouses/inlaws.
d. no "downers" of any kind. i.e. negative type situations/people.
4th recognize that it will MAYBE give you a sense of awareness that different frames of reference/lifestyles/view points exist other than the one you normally operate with. that your normal perceptions are limited (a survival mechanism: spaced out mammals tend to get eaten)and that there is a wider, more insightful, pleasanter sense of self and of the "universe" to be had. you will NOT keep that sensitivity after the drug wears off. however knowing that that level of perception exists may spur you to seek and utilize non-drug oriented means to achieve a long term connection with that awareness.
as you may conclude, i have had good and bad experiences. usually the so-so predominated.
my best advice would be to try the non-drug path of enlightenment first. i place no value judgement on either path. some people need to be able to feel/see that it exists before they will put in the longer/harder/safer effort to achieve that awareness using the non-chemical paths that have existed for many years.
many of the stories that are told of the theraputic value of certain hallucinogens leave out the details of how/when the drugs were administered,under what conditions/surroundings and the purity and accuracy of the dosage. many times the people doing the telling usually have an agenda that may not be benign and street drugs can be ANYTHING and at any dosage and will probably have no relationship to the dosage claimed in the stories.
as to "conservatives"(i.e. republicans) being the sole preventers of an enlightened drug policy;
b.s., there are plenty of neo-cons that want the government out of the business of telling people what they can put into their bodies and just as many so called "liberals" and liberal newspapers that rail against any loosening of drug prohibitions. the fact is it's the DRUG ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES that have the most to lose and who attack the hardest/nastiest anyone who attempts to bring sanity and justice to our ridiculous drug policy.
good luck.
1st if your head is seriously screwed up, you will most likely screw it up worse taking any legal/illegal drug.
2nd unless you are cautious, do some research (books, close friend's experiences, observation) and have a supplier you really can trust, you are very likely to not get:
a. the actual chemical that you wanted.
b. the correct/safe dosage.
c. the insight/high/visions you hoped for.
3rd do "whatever" in a controlled environment;
a. limited/no access to you by people who might f*** with your head
b. with only CLOSE, GOOD friends. (i mean folks who have taken sh** for/from you and are still friends and who are intelligent, thoughtful, resourceful and
agree with what you are doing.
c. safe, private, police free surroundings with no nosy neighbors/parents/spouses/inlaws.
d. no "downers" of any kind. i.e. negative type situations/people.
4th recognize that it will MAYBE give you a sense of awareness that different frames of reference/lifestyles/view points exist other than the one you normally operate with. that your normal perceptions are limited (a survival mechanism: spaced out mammals tend to get eaten)and that there is a wider, more insightful, pleasanter sense of self and of the "universe" to be had. you will NOT keep that sensitivity after the drug wears off. however knowing that that level of perception exists may spur you to seek and utilize non-drug oriented means to achieve a long term connection with that awareness.
as you may conclude, i have had good and bad experiences. usually the so-so predominated.
my best advice would be to try the non-drug path of enlightenment first. i place no value judgement on either path. some people need to be able to feel/see that it exists before they will put in the longer/harder/safer effort to achieve that awareness using the non-chemical paths that have existed for many years.
many of the stories that are told of the theraputic value of certain hallucinogens leave out the details of how/when the drugs were administered,under what conditions/surroundings and the purity and accuracy of the dosage. many times the people doing the telling usually have an agenda that may not be benign and street drugs can be ANYTHING and at any dosage and will probably have no relationship to the dosage claimed in the stories.
as to "conservatives"(i.e. republicans) being the sole preventers of an enlightened drug policy;
b.s., there are plenty of neo-cons that want the government out of the business of telling people what they can put into their bodies and just as many so called "liberals" and liberal newspapers that rail against any loosening of drug prohibitions. the fact is it's the DRUG ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES that have the most to lose and who attack the hardest/nastiest anyone who attempts to bring sanity and justice to our ridiculous drug policy.
good luck.
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El Ka Bong
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"good luck" .. ! ..? Thanks !.. But I'm only asking if folks here have actually ever heard of or known of intended theraputic uses for these substances, in our own lives. As in lately, this decade... ?
My "Third Eye" hasn't been activated by psychedelics in over 15 years, but lately I've been tuning into it's awareness. It might just be the results of getting older, wiser and craftier.
For sure though, once I start experimenting again, I'll be posting some thoughts and observations.
My "Third Eye" hasn't been activated by psychedelics in over 15 years, but lately I've been tuning into it's awareness. It might just be the results of getting older, wiser and craftier.
For sure though, once I start experimenting again, I'll be posting some thoughts and observations.
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Muffalicious
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Well I have tried many different drugs and my fav. was X (LSD got bored after the 15th time). It has been a few years but, the reason why I stopped is becuase you couldn't get the real stuff as easy, and so many people was getting busted. I took some fucked up ★■◆● the last time I did it and was wasted for two days. Other than that it has been fun.
The experience was amazing almost everytime. It makes you aware of things other than your self, and brings you happiness only if you let it. Most people try to control the trip/high, so then they focuse on a battle not the experience of the drug.
The experience was amazing almost everytime. It makes you aware of things other than your self, and brings you happiness only if you let it. Most people try to control the trip/high, so then they focuse on a battle not the experience of the drug.
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El Ka Bong
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So I wonder, a modern psychedelic therapist would get what kind of training; quite a mixed bag of diciplines would go into that degree.
Most amazingly in guided sessions,the "worst" cases are often 'cured', like the example of the young catatonic children. We're talking about huge doses, 250 - 400 mcg LSD ! All blockages are dissloved, and those poor kids in the sanitorium, I keep thinking ! What did they have as knowledge to guide them ..?!
Borderline people are also a clear reason one would need a trained 'therapist'. Normal folk ( .. heh.. who's that anyway ..?) might manage themselves through such episodes of expended psychic awareness, but not have a map when needed, and might not get as much out of each experience, or get 'lost'...
The therapist or trip-sitter is crucial, they are part of 'set and setting'.
Most amazingly in guided sessions,the "worst" cases are often 'cured', like the example of the young catatonic children. We're talking about huge doses, 250 - 400 mcg LSD ! All blockages are dissloved, and those poor kids in the sanitorium, I keep thinking ! What did they have as knowledge to guide them ..?!
Borderline people are also a clear reason one would need a trained 'therapist'. Normal folk ( .. heh.. who's that anyway ..?) might manage themselves through such episodes of expended psychic awareness, but not have a map when needed, and might not get as much out of each experience, or get 'lost'...
The therapist or trip-sitter is crucial, they are part of 'set and setting'.
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Phoenix Red
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To me these stories smack of demolition tactics. Someone have severely messed up inner programming? Give them extremely high dosages of something that fucks with that programming, and when the dust settles, maybe it will be a little less warped and a little more... flat. People who more or less like themselves the way they are may not experience "benefits" by blasting the ★■◆● out of their mind.
I've never done LSD, and I'm aware that there are lotsa people who have and are still normal(ish). That's just how it looks to me.
I've never done LSD, and I'm aware that there are lotsa people who have and are still normal(ish). That's just how it looks to me.