Well, after trying Mandrake 9.2 a year or two back (probably more like two now), and trying to use if for a fair bit, I came to more or less the following conclusion:
It's not difficult to use at all.
If you're a basic 'office' user of the program that only cares about the obvious applications, e-mail and internet browsing.
If you're a developer, or need specialised tools, or have hardware that requires specific settings, you'll probably be tearing your hair out before finally getting everything working two days later.
I can't personally be bothered spending that much time getting something running when a) the developer, who knew how the system worked, could have done that for me, and b) the benefits at the end aren't really significant enough to warrant it.
No distribution can really fix this. It's a problem with the way Linux software is produced.
Linux is a PAIN IN THE NECK!
Zangarath,
I can deal with Linux. I just don't have the time. I want an application done, not fiddle with the OS, and it's hellish documentations. I mean, wtf still use man format, if there's html and xml and what not?
Linux docs are like OpenGL docs: You get a list of basic functions, but no explanation how to use them, and no examples.
This windows bashing by Linux users is so hilarious.
Btw, MS and Bill Gates have been rated as one of the world's top ten in innovation and customer orientation in a survey performed among over 1000 CEO's and managers.
I can deal with Linux. I just don't have the time. I want an application done, not fiddle with the OS, and it's hellish documentations. I mean, wtf still use man format, if there's html and xml and what not?
Linux docs are like OpenGL docs: You get a list of basic functions, but no explanation how to use them, and no examples.
This windows bashing by Linux users is so hilarious.
Btw, MS and Bill Gates have been rated as one of the world's top ten in innovation and customer orientation in a survey performed among over 1000 CEO's and managers.
^ read 'over 1000 money grubbing capitalist b@$tards!!!Diedel wrote:Btw, MS and Bill Gates have been rated as one of the world's top ten in innovation and customer orientation in a survey performed among over 1000 CEO's and managers.
(i.e. omg i wish i could do that and make all that money, 'bill gates is my god, next to money that is')p.s. i like windows. i like linux more.
I LOVE YOU DEIDEL!!! YOU MAKE MY D2X-XL GO VROOM!!!!
Compassion is for free,fyrephlie wrote:^ read 'over 1000 money grubbing capitalist b@$tards!!!
envy you have to earn.
/continue rant
Had some time, so decided to get the latest stable KDevelop source and compile it myself to get around that 'forget project data' bug in v3.2.2.
Got the source code, got through the installation instructions, and now I don't have some 'Neon' whatever and a Berkeley DB.
KDE does not offer packaged KDevelop binaries, so I depened on my Distro supplier here.
SUSE Germany only offers an ftp update server, which gets blocked by our firewall.
Welcome to the wonderful world of Linux - you wonder all the time what's wrong with it.
QEDDiedel wrote: SUSE Germany only offers an ftp update server, which gets blocked by our firewall.
Welcome to the wonderful world of Linux - you wonder all the time what's wrong with it.
Your firewall blocks ftp => Linux is crap!
Yeah right.
Sorry, but you are frustrated and not...ahh...logical
Lars
Sure he's frustrated... but he's still got a point.lars wrote:QED
Your firewall blocks ftp => Linux is crap!
Yeah right.
Sorry, but you are frustrated and not...ahh...logical
Lars
FTP is not the most secure protocol. It has some serious inherent weaknesses. Having the firewall allow FTP defeats many of the reasons to even use a firewall. Yeah, there are ways to better secure it (heck, there are ways to better secure even IE
). The point is he didn't want FTP happening for obvious security reasons... but the update process uses FTP protocol. Catch 22.Perhaps you're just as frustrated and not...ahh...logical.
Sorry.
sigh... this thread is over-discussed...
Um. What? He's saying his firewall blocks outgoing ftp requests. Unless you want to run an ftp server, there's no reason to allow incoming ftp requests, but that doesn't mean you have to block all ftp activity. You should still be able to connect to an ftp server. Sounds like Diedel's firewall is poorly configured.Having the firewall allow FTP defeats many of the reasons to even use a firewall.
Please elaborate. And how would these weaknesses make it inappropriate for downloading packages?FTP is not the most secure protocol. It has some serious inherent weaknesses.
My companie's tech staff is overly cautious.scottris wrote:Um. What? He's saying his firewall blocks outgoing ftp requests. Unless you want to run an ftp server, there's no reason to allow incoming ftp requests, but that doesn't mean you have to block all ftp activity. You should still be able to connect to an ftp server. Sounds like Diedel's firewall is poorly configured.Having the firewall allow FTP defeats many of the reasons to even use a firewall.
Please elaborate. And how would these weaknesses make it inappropriate for downloading packages?FTP is not the most secure protocol. It has some serious inherent weaknesses.
Negative. Most Linux software update sites offer an alternative http d/l channel. Guess why (you have three attemptslars wrote:QEDDiedel wrote: SUSE Germany only offers an ftp update server, which gets blocked by our firewall.
Welcome to the wonderful world of Linux - you wonder all the time what's wrong with it.
Your firewall blocks ftp => Linux is crap!
Yeah right.
Sorry, but you are frustrated and not...ahh...logical
Lars
). Only the supplier of my distro themselves don't. D'uh. 
And then your whole conclusion is a short cut. This is only a small part of the whole picture, 90% of which you chose to ignore to make a point of me being illogical.
Btw, aren't the update servers part of the Linux world?
You can bet your behind that I am frustrated. I finally found some time to update KDevelop and try to get it running, and again installing is not a straightforward process but a crooked road with nasty surprises behind each turn.
diedel...
http://www.novell.com/products/suselinu ... rrors.html
several http mirrors listed... although they may not be as near as some, they do exist.
http://www.opensuse.org/YaST_package_repository
a list of package repositories for suse....
check out packman and guru...
i am glad i am not in germany... since finding local mirrors and adjusting urls would suck.
http://www.novell.com/products/suselinu ... rrors.html
several http mirrors listed... although they may not be as near as some, they do exist.
http://www.opensuse.org/YaST_package_repository
a list of package repositories for suse....
check out packman and guru...
i am glad i am not in germany... since finding local mirrors and adjusting urls would suck.
I find Linux to be easier for me to understand than Windows. Now, admittedly, I didn't really "get" Linux at all at first; I would always need help doing stuff, and I remained with Windows as my primary OS. Once I put Gentoo on my system, I found it refreshing that I knew so much about my system. The free as in beer aspect doesn't really come into my calculations.
Somehow I'm able to "get" how to do everything extremely well. I'm able to handle things going wrong and/or not installing and fix them quite easily. I don't really know why.
So I think that your enjoyment of Linux should be kinda an unchangeable quality. Of course, I can't really handle Linux unless it's Gentoo or LFS; I hate being constricted in the other distros. So quite possibly you're one of those guys that would prefer something like Mac OS X where everything is designed to work perfectly yet be exactly the same. Personally I hate using OS X or Windows, for some reason I can't really put into words.
/end rant
Somehow I'm able to "get" how to do everything extremely well. I'm able to handle things going wrong and/or not installing and fix them quite easily. I don't really know why.
So I think that your enjoyment of Linux should be kinda an unchangeable quality. Of course, I can't really handle Linux unless it's Gentoo or LFS; I hate being constricted in the other distros. So quite possibly you're one of those guys that would prefer something like Mac OS X where everything is designed to work perfectly yet be exactly the same. Personally I hate using OS X or Windows, for some reason I can't really put into words.
/end rant
sorry i misunderstood that... have you thought about using a U.S. mirror? (i am not sure if an english package would work, but seems like you might be able to do it...) slower download but might be the way to go.Diedel wrote:firefly,
as I wrote there are other mirrors here in Germany, offering http connections as well. It's just that there is no KDevelop 3.3.0 package, and SUSE Germany inc. would probably be the first to have it.
Sirius,
actually this thread also is a way of calling for help ...
i really feel for you being in germany with some setbacks with the work network guys being so anal retentive.
(although that is not entirely linux' fault ) push come to shove, would you want me to download it and host it for you so you can just get the rpm from me via http?
(since you are working so hard on d2x-xl for me, seems like i could do something for you... )