Behemoth's official top 20 pilots of d3

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:13 pm

I think d3s p2p didn't have the same feel to it as d1/d2.

Birdseye · Post by **Birdseye** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:39 pm

That's true because it is not true peer to peer. But believe it or not, d1 on a 28.8 (actualyl I think I used to even play it on a 14.4) totally sucked worse back in the day. WAY worse. D3'ers ain't seen nothin'

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:17 pm

Just play theftbot

haha

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:30 pm

Uhm, take theftbot's ping and multiply it by 2 or 3.

BUBBALOU · Post by **BUBBALOU** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:35 am

Behemoth wrote:Just play theftbot haha

that is not all just bad ping bro...

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:55 am

BUBBALOU wrote:
Behemoth wrote:Just play theftbot haha
that is not all just bad ping bro...

No, but it was sure amazing skip .. just to stay on topic with what birds said.

kurupt · Post by **kurupt** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:50 am

d3's p2p was a joke, i would play people 2 games of 10 with one of us having 0 ping each half and be more satisfied with the outcome than playing to 20 in p2p.

of course, i never liked d3 and often just made up reasons why it sucked because i hated it so much

why are people still playing this game anyway?

BUBBALOU · Post by **BUBBALOU** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:36 pm

Behemoth wrote:Just play theftbot haha

that is not "sure amazing skip" either bro...

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 5:22 pm

BUBBALOU wrote:
Behemoth wrote:Just play theftbot haha
that is not "sure amazing skip" either bro...

it isnt? not to dog on him or his connection, but when we had our idl match he was jumping 3 seconds ahead of me

Jesus Freak · Post by **Jesus Freak** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:44 pm

BUBBALOU wrote:
Behemoth wrote:Just play theftbot haha
that is not "sure amazing skip" either bro...

Who still plays D3? I sure don't...

Behemoth I'm not going to say anything negative about your list since u said yourself it is biased. Personally I cannot make an accurate list because I played most of the great players back in 01 and 02 when I had 56k AND was a newb. In addition, D3 was my first multiplayer experience. All things said, I still disagree with your top 20. IMO Kufyit, Sandmann, Palzon, Clayman, and Behemoth should not be up there. Questionable to me also is Zero. From earlier posts I agree that Darak should be there, as well as Xeon and Wakeman. People that should be moved down the list are Kal-el, Krom, and Zero. Monkey is clearly much higher on that list than shown.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:56 pm

I may be utterly wrong, but in the games I played Palzon looked somewhat better than Darak.

Darak was one hell of a flag runner though.

Jesus Freak · Post by **Jesus Freak** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:08 am

In some games with ROX Darak played better than Genghis. Palzon is not even close to top 20 on this list.

Max T should definitely be on this list. Crown should also be considered.

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:56 pm

Jesus Freak wrote:
BUBBALOU wrote:
Behemoth wrote:Just play theftbot haha
that is not "sure amazing skip" either bro...
Who still plays D3? I sure don't...

Behemoth I'm not going to say anything negative about your list since u said yourself it is biased. Personally I cannot make an accurate list because I played most of the great players back in 01 and 02 when I had 56k AND was a newb. In addition, D3 was my first multiplayer experience. All things said, I still disagree with your top 20. IMO Kufyit, Sandmann, Palzon, Clayman, and Behemoth should not be up there. Questionable to me also is Zero. From earlier posts I agree that Darak should be there, as well as Xeon and Wakeman. People that should be moved down the list are Kal-el, Krom, and Zero. Monkey is clearly much higher on that list than shown.

Kal-el was #2 on the GGL and most undoubtedly has the skills to back up that spot, I dont believe monkey (although he is an amazing player) has any reason to be higher on the list then he is, as stated before, in open games and 1v1 we go hand in hand.
Xeon does NOT belong higher on the list then he's been put, and wakeman i'm not quite sure of yet as i havent heard much about him.
And i will not say this list is biased because most people will agree that birdseye is the best, and if i have to pick #2 by someone who's beat him a few times or more then anyone that i've heard that's why i put ryujin in the list at #2, Furthermore i really dont need approval of a DESCENT list by someone who doesnt play anymore, so please dont add criticism.

TheCope · Post by **TheCope** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:23 pm

I was under the impression that LAN is where it's at with D3. So, shouldn't someone who has attended a lot of LANs be the one making this list?

Whatever. I always thought the game was kinda fun.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:38 pm

The only people that I think that deserve to be on the list at first glance are Birdseye and Nirvana. And even that might be iffy.

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:39 pm

You have to get 18 more than that krom.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:44 pm

I'm just saying that any list here will be a useless name dropping thread, different pilots perform in different types of games. I've seen times in games when people not on that list were flying so well it made most of the people on that list look like average pilots at best.

Jesus Freak · Post by **Jesus Freak** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:32 pm

Behemoth wrote:Furthermore i really dont need approval of a DESCENT list by someone who doesnt play anymore, so please dont add criticism.

You know about 99% of the Descent community no longer play anymore. This list is about what happened years ago, not today. All of the best players would suck now cause they don't play anymore and are uber rusty.

I know you didn't attend Chilan, but if u had I'm sure your opinion of Monkey would change greatly. I think just about everyone who LANed with him, whether at chilan or another lan, realized that he was one of the best -- especially on LAN, AKA the Descent proving grounds. On-line he is still great. In fact, I fail to see when you ever held your own versus him as said in your previous post(we're talking at least 1 year ago, not now).

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:01 am

Jesus Freak wrote:
Behemoth wrote:Furthermore i really dont need approval of a DESCENT list by someone who doesnt play anymore, so please dont add criticism.
You know about 99% of the Descent community no longer play anymore. This list is about what happened years ago, not today. All of the best players would suck now cause they don't play anymore and are uber rusty.

I know you didn't attend Chilan, but if u had I'm sure your opinion of Monkey would change greatly. I think just about everyone who LANed with him, whether at chilan or another lan, realized that he was one of the best -- especially on LAN, AKA the Descent proving grounds. On-line he is still great. In fact, I fail to see when you ever held your own versus him as said in your previous post(we're talking at least 1 year ago, not now).

Monkey is my friend so i'm not in any way trying to dog on him, but please answer me this one question.. who did he play on LAN? Suncho, jazzyjet and krom are very good players but did he play someone like nirvana, or darktalyn? You keep saying he beat krom and all this but we all know krom isnt a 1v1 player so that doesnt seem like much.

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:32 pm

Jesus Freak wrote: IMO Kufyit, Sandmann, Palzon, Clayman, and Behemoth should not be up there. Questionable to me also is Zero.

Another one to add to that would also be shadowfox then.

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:14 pm

I'm the new Vander! (or is that "bun-bun has delusions of Grandeur"?)

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:01 pm

WarAdvocat wrote:I'm the new Vander! (or is that "bun-bun has delusions of Grandeur"?)

Heh! =)

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:11 pm

WarAdvocat wrote:I'm the new Vander! (or is that "bun-bun has delusions of Grandeur"?)

Maybe a combination of the two?

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:31 pm

I miss having good players around.

The state of D3 is pretty sad today.

MD whores in VV or Trifusion Whores in BI3, buttmissile whores in SD, and skippy American idiots playing german stadium at 10:00 PM EST (What is that, 4:00 AM Euro?)

Someone, breathe new life into this game!

Couver_ · Post by **Couver_** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:31 pm

WarAdvocat wrote:MD whores in VV or Trifusion Whores in BI3, buttmissile whores in SD

Hmmm Whores D'oeuvres

Jesus Freak · Post by **Jesus Freak** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:37 pm

Behemoth wrote:
Jesus Freak wrote: IMO Kufyit, Sandmann, Palzon, Clayman, and Behemoth should not be up there. Questionable to me also is Zero.
Another one to add to that would also be shadowfox then.

No, because none of them have ever had over 50% on Shadowfox in a game. Same with me. And just in case you didn't know, I had to 1v1 Kufyit in Faded Rose for the ladder at chilan. I won(came back to win 16-15 time limit from a 6-0 losing deficit at the beginning). I know Sandmann shouldn't be up there cause I was always at least equal to him back on 56k. I was always better than Palzon on 56k. Genghis and Hostile I played 2v1 in Pyroglyphic shortly after I got cable in December 2004 and held 50%. I also 1v1ed Genghis in Kataclysmica 1.5 and won. Clayman has never beaten me, period. I've beaten Monkey a couple times in 1v1, though he still has more wins on me than losses. Back in 2003 or 2004 when MOB played ANTS(I was playing as MOB-Gandalf on 56k) I held over 50% on all of the ANTS, including Bash. And I have beaten you, Behemoth, probably 20 times or more, most of the time the score is 20-10 to 20-3. Shadowfox has always been "equal" to me, at least we like to think so, though he had cable for a while when I had my free 26.4kbps 56k, and clearly he had an advantage... and I won't even go into dial-up again. But the bottom line is we consider ourselves equals, and play pretty equally under almost all circumstances. So yes Shadowfox should be up there IMO. As should I, at least versus the people currently present on that list. I also agree with Krom's statement that there are people not on this list who could pwn people who presently are on it. And certainly this is not the perfect list, there are some people I am positive we are overlooking who are absolutely amazing players.

But back to this list... Tyrant should be much higher than he is, and you should not be on there at all. I don't care if you have beaten any of these players once or twice when they were weak. There are other players up there that are capable of beating Birdseye at his prime -- you could never come close to that.

Kal-el being #2 on the GGL means little. There were really only 5 players on that ladder: Birdseye, Shadowfox, Kal-el, myself, and Zero. Both Zero and myself were crippled with 56k. That's not much to say you were #2 out of 3. I'm not saying Kal-el is a bad player, he's very good, but I think you're exaggerating his position by making him #4. Even on 56k I went 16 and 20 on him in BI3, and this was during the time of the GGL. I'm sure if Monkey were on cable and I were on 56k the scores would be around 20-10. You talk lightly about Monkey playing versus ONLY Krom, Suncho, and JazzeJet(and there were a couple others like Kufyit, myself and Shadowfox). Supposedly Kufyit used to hold his own on Birdseye. But my point is prettymuch everyone at Chilan made a general consensus that Monkey is up there on the level of Birds.

Another good player is JazzeJet... dunno if he should be on this list, but his skillz should be noted. Fezzik really surprised me on LAN also, he's got some mad pyro. So does Suncho

And Bunyip, though you manage to explode a lot, your pyro really isn't that bad -- especially when I saw you at Chilan versus Suncho

Kufyit also showed that he knew how to handle a pyro, though our 1v1 was in Mag vs Mag.

Oh, and Barry just came to mind. He's approximately the same level as Shadowfox, though I think SF won most of his games against him. Dunno when his prime was, but I'm talking about what happened in 04.

Jesus Freak · Post by **Jesus Freak** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:42 pm

Birdseye wrote:That's true because it is not true peer to peer. But believe it or not, d1 on a 28.8 (actualyl I think I used to even play it on a 14.4) totally sucked worse back in the day. WAY worse. D3'ers ain't seen nothin'

I agree that D1 and D2 multiplayer suck(especially with a bunch of people on 14k!!). But so does D3 now that I've played a number of other on-line games. Ping makes more of a difference in D3 than in any other multiplayer game I have played.

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:23 pm

Jesus Freak wrote: I won(came back to win 16-15 time limit from a 6-0 losing deficit at the beginning).

Okay, if you cam back and you say you deserve to be on the list, how doesnt kufyit deserve to be on it?

Jesus Freak wrote:eak"]
And I have beaten you, Behemoth, probably 20 times or more, most of the time the score is 20-10 to 20-3.

While i have not denoted how well you play, that score doesnt speak much because thats the equivelant to birds beating you everytime you played him.

Jesus Freak wrote: Monkey is up there on the level of Birds.

I will say yet again, monkey is a great player and all, but if he deserves higher on that list, then i at LEAST deserve to be on it skill-wise.

Jesus Freak wrote: Another good player is JazzeJet... dunno if he should be on this list, but his skillz should be noted.

Last game we played like two days ago, i beat him 10-7 in indika with him getting a type kill on me before we both said go.

TheCope · Post by **TheCope** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:47 pm

you guys sure think highly of yourselves... my gawd.

Darktalyn1 · Post by **Darktalyn1** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:24 pm

The good news for me is, since reinstalling D3 I don't have to argue about being better than anyone, cause I really suck now

Losing is becoming a second nature to me these days, and well, it just feels great!

Jesus Freak · Post by **Jesus Freak** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:36 pm

Behemoth wrote:Okay, if you cam back and you say you deserve to be on the list, how doesnt kufyit deserve to be on it?

That was not my point in that post. My point was that I deserve to be on the list in some cases far more than the people presently on it, and backed it up.

Kufyit does not deserve to be on the list because I do not believe that his overall performance is good enough for the top 20. He did well in 1v1, but I failed to recognize him before that. Also, his 6-0 lead may have been a spoof. One game with someone in a 1v1 is not enough to get an accurate assessment of their skill level. As I said earlier, though he may have been an above average player in the anarchy and CTF games we had played at chilan, he was not good enough for me to notice his performance compared to others like Monkey, Suncho, Krom, Jazzy Jet, etc.

Behemoth wrote: While i have not denoted how well you play, that score doesnt speak much because thats the equivelant to birds beating you everytime you played him.

How does Birds figure into the picture here? I'm saying first of all that since you're on the list and I have proven numerous times my gameplay as superior over yours, that I deserve to be on that list(again in comparison to the people already on it). I fail to see the validity of the comparison of you to me with me to Birds. I have only played him once on 56k versus his DSL, me in Maryland he in the west coast(California?), and the score was 20-10 he won. On the other hand, I have played you on 56k and cable and won consistently and decisively. The score means everything because it proves my point.

Behemoth wrote: I will say yet again, monkey is a great player and all, but if he deserves higher on that list, then i at LEAST deserve to be on it skill-wise.

Why? Because you beat him once or twice on-line when he was playing poorly? Because you think you do well on him on-line? I beg to differ -- at least 20 other people could/have done better.

Behemoth wrote: Last game we played like two days ago, i beat him[JazzeJet] 10-7 in indika with him getting a type kill on me before we both said go.

Again that is a weak point. First of all, I did not recommend JJ for the top 20. Second, as has been made very clear throughout this thread, just about all of the Descent community is at the bottom of their game, far from their prime. Thirdly, winning in a short game to 10 proves little, and that goes without explanation.

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:15 pm

And why are you even in this thread? You're opinion on who plays or would be in the top 20 doesnt seem to hold relevance, Because as you say "Screw d3. It sucks."... was that it? anyways,

I've almost always held well against monkey, another thing the relevance between you losing to birdseye and me losing to you is the same: you were new when you played him, and i had been new when i was demolished, most of our games were nothing but learning for me.

Jesus Freak · Post by **Jesus Freak** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:42 pm

Behemoth wrote:And why are you even in this thread? You're opinion on who plays or would be in the top 20 doesnt seem to hold relevance, Because as you say "Screw d3. It sucks."... was that it?

I am posting in this thread because I felt like it. You got a problem wit dat?

My opinion of your top 20 list is relevant because I am just as much of a Descenter as you or anyone else. D3 was my favorite game for several years. Lately it has been very dull in the mines, and most people would agree with me there.

Behemoth wrote:I've almost always held well against monkey, another thing the relevance between you losing to birdseye and me losing to you is the same: you were new when you played him, and i had been new when i was demolished, most of our games were nothing but learning for me.

I was not new last time I played Birdseye. Last time I played him I had a few years of experience, which is why I managed to get 10 points on 56k.

How long have you been playing this game? Since 2002? I do not consider anyone who has played D3 for more than 6 months a "new" player in my book. Despite D3's learning curve, 6 months is plenty of time to become good. On the contrary, I know I defeated you game after game for at least a year. That alone was plenty of time for you to improve. There's no excuse there for being "new". How long must you learn? Five years?

Jesus Freak · Post by **Jesus Freak** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:50 pm

Ohhhhh Neutrino should be considered for the top 20. I know a lot of games where he did better than Genghis and Hostile. Any way you look at him he's very good.

Zero! · Post by **Zero!** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:02 pm

lol kill this thread already

fyrephlie · Post by **fyrephlie** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:05 pm

[spoiler]4 pages?!?!?[/spoiler]

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:08 pm

Jesus Freak wrote: How long have you been playing this game? Since 2002? I do not consider anyone who has played D3 for more than 6 months a "new" player in my book. Despite D3's learning curve, 6 months is plenty of time to become good. On the contrary, I know I defeated you game after game for at least a year. That alone was plenty of time for you to improve. There's no excuse there for being "new". How long must you learn? Five years?

Been playing descent since it came out, only got online capabilities in 99 so dont act like i dont know descent.

Jesus Freak · Post by **Jesus Freak** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:15 pm

Behemoth wrote:
Jesus Freak wrote: How long have you been playing this game? Since 2002? I do not consider anyone who has played D3 for more than 6 months a "new" player in my book. Despite D3's learning curve, 6 months is plenty of time to become good. On the contrary, I know I defeated you game after game for at least a year. That alone was plenty of time for you to improve. There's no excuse there for being "new". How long must you learn? Five years?
Been playing descent since it came out, only got online capabilities in 99 so dont act like i dont know descent.

I have never questioned your knowledge of Descent or its on-line community. However, I do not understand how you claim you were ever "new" or inexperienced in any way when playing me, since you have had probably multiple times the in-game experience on-line as me.

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:17 pm

Jesus Freak wrote: I have never questioned your knowledge of Descent or its on-line community. However, I do not understand how you claim you were ever "new" or inexperienced in any way when playing me, since you have had probably multiple times the in-game experience on-line as me.

Because compared to most, online-wise i was a newbie.

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:13 am

Not to bag on Hostile in any way shape or form, but I recall Neutrino helping me explode much more often.