Disgusting...

[Bet51987]

I know I'm going to be in trouble here but I can't keep quiet. A friend PM'd today to take a look at a particular Dbb.com subject, so I did just now.

One of their threads had a subject called \"cute chicks and 12 year olds\" and you can pretty much guess what it was about. When the post was semi-edited the poster cried foul claiming the new dbb is run by the \"same old boss\" and his freedom of speech was being violated with some referencing the nazi run dbb here. It looks like he won the argument.

In another thread they are calling Fliptw a Nazi for closing a thread and that is ticking me off. Sorry, but if they can complain about us, then we should reply in kind.

On another note, one of the .com DBB \"staff members\" is coming into G rated servers and fwording me to death. If he continues doing that then I'm going to name him on every forum I can find. I knew it wouldn't be long before that place began to degenerate and spill over into the game servers which proves Koolbear was right all along...

Bettina

[Drakona]

I wouldn't let it bother you. The Descent community has always had several hangouts, and the cleanliness of the DBB has been the exception, not the rule. I'm pretty sure there's nothing they'll say on the DBB.com that's dirtier than what's been said a hundred times on Kali or on the d3kbb... 'tis nothing new in that regaurd. And I'm pretty sure the new board didn't create any newly-minted jerks--it's probably just the same old well-beloved jerks it's been for the past several years.

I don't know what good getting angry about it here would do, anyway. It'd just fuel more petty drama. Better to let it be.

[Kilarin]

one of the .com DBB "staff members" is coming into G rated servers and fwording me to death.

<sigh>
It's such a shame that some people combine two problems.
1: They have a very limited vocabulary and lack the creativity to use it in interesting way.
2: Probably in some strange attempt to make up for the obvious inadequacy of the above, they get their kicks by making other people uncomfortable.

I apologize for the human race.

In Jr. High I managed to shut one guy up with a technique that probably wouldn't work for you since you are female. It was on the bus and we were, of course, surrounded by quite a lot of people. Suddenly Neanderthal Man shows up and insults me. This guy is doing 8th grade for the third time, he not only had to shave his chin, but his back as well. I was the lowly nerd 7th grader and he didn't like me. The conversation went something like this:

Neanderthal Man: F*** You!!!
Me: "I'm sorry, and no insult intended, but I'm heterosexual and not interested. If you want to have sex with a guy you should probably look elsewhere"

Neanderthal Man hesitates for a moment, that wasn't the response he was expecting. People were looking at him funny. Something isn't right here, he lifts one knuckle off the ground to scratch an armpit while he thinks...

Neanderthal Man: "What do you mean? I don't wanna F*** you! I'm not GAY!".
Me: "Then why did you ask me to have intercourse with you?"
Neanderthal Man: "Huh?"
Me: "You came over here, in front of all these witnesses, and used an old english phrase that clearly translates to, 'I want to have sex with you.'"
Neanderthal Man: "It does NOT mean that!!!"
Me: "Are you trying to tell me you dont know the meaning of the word? But you just used it in a context that clearly shows you do. If there is any confusion on the point you might want to pull out a dictionary and look it up before you use it again, otherwise it could get you into some uncomfortable situations."
Neanderthal Man: "I *KNOW* what F*** means, BUT... BUT.. that is NOT what I MEANT!"
Me: "Well then, why did you say it? Especially to ME? What DID you mean?"
Neanderthal Man: "I meant... Uhm... I, uhm... it meant... uhm..."

Neanderthal Man is CLEARLY coming close to an anurisim here from working his tiny amount of cerebral matter WAY to hard. I decide to save him from a blow out by interrupting:

Me: I don't see any way your statement could be interpreted other than as a proposition for sexual intercourse between you and myself. Now I'm not here to challenge your personal preferences, I just wanted to let you know, politely, that I'm heterosexual and if you really want to have sex with another guy you need to look elsewhere"

By this point, all of the Neanderthal's buddies were laughing at him, he wandered off, redfaced and confused.

[Cuda68]

If it bothers you that much just off there board. It will end within a few weeks of you pating any attention to them. Things like this happen only to provoke you into a responce. If you respond they continue.

[Lothar]

One of their threads had a subject called "cute chicks and 12 year olds" and you can pretty much guess what it was about.

I doubt anyone will guess it right from the title.

What had happened (to the best of my knowledge, based on reading the thread a couple days ago -- "yes, I read a thread on dotcom, try not to faint") is that there was a "cute chicks" thread in NHB, and as a joke, someone posted a picture of a clearly underage girl who was fully clothed and not at all in a provocative position, but who appeared to be saying something dirty. The mod said something along the lines of "I don't care how funny it is, you never post underage girls in a thread like this. That's not cool." There wasn't any kiddie pr0n or anything like that, just one member who thought it was an appropriate joke and a mod who didn't. It kind of strangely parallels the "intense sex" thread here -- it's the same disagreement over how to handle sexual content and underage kids.

Not surprisingly, moving part of the community to a different board doesn't solve the underlying issue -- we all have a little bit different judgement when it comes to deciding what's OK and what's not OK. Any time anyone exercises moderator powers, by definition it's because they disagree with someone else's judgement (otherwise that person wouldn't have posted whatever it was in the first place!) The mods over there might be significantly more relaxed than the mods over here in certain ways, but there will still be complaints about mods because we don't all share the exact same judgement.

if they can complain about us, then we should reply in kind.

Don't take it so personally. It's not a war between "us" and "them" where we need to balance any whining about the mods on this board with an equal amount of whining about the mods on that board.

How they choose to moderate is for them to decide, and whatever they decide, we can learn from it. But we don't need to be angry about what they do or look for chances to insult them for setting up another board.

one of the .com DBB "staff members" is coming into G rated servers and fwording me to death.

I don't think his being a jerk has anything to do with the fact that he's on that board instead of this one. He didn't become more of a jerk because that board exists; chances are he'd be doing the same thing to you regardless.

dotcom didn't create any new jerks, it just became a home for a few of the old ones. (Lest anyone take that statement wrong: it also became a new home for a lot of really good people in this community.)

[fyrephlie]

to elaborate... it was partially my fault...

i was uncomfortable with the fact that the girl pictured is underaged. the poster was not actually aware that she was, or hadn't thought about it.... but she is the 'star' of lazy town, a show my kids watch all the time. i said it was 'sick, cause she is like 12', a mod took immediate notice, i posted links showing her to actually be 15, so roughly 13 at the time of the filming.

my posts were removed, as were the inital pictures, leaving the original poster confused and upset.

his words were posted because of that upsetedness (not a real word i don't think) and in the end it was all gravy.

no one was trying to post underage porn, or be sick and evil. the pictures weren't bad (well one wasn't the other was cause the the 'f-ck me' subtitle...) but it didn't fit.

all was well and life goes on.

p.s. i didn't agree with the mods handling of the content really... but someone else already said it, so i let it go.

oh, and in regards to their opinions of the moderation over here... meh.

[Sirius]

In regards to their opinion of the moderation over here, they can count their blessings. They don't know what Nazi really IS.

[Flabby Chick]

"yes, I read a thread on dotcom, try not to faint"

LOL! 50 lashes at dawn for you sir!!!!

[whuppinboy]

here's sum cheez w/that wine.....

[Genghis]

In another thread they are calling Fliptw a Nazi for closing a thread and that is ticking me off.

To be fair, there's also a thread here on .net where Fliptw is being called a Nazi. Why no mention of that?

Sorry, but if they can complain about us, then we should reply in kind.

Actually, I believe there's already been more complaining on .com about .net than there is on .com about .net. Folks overe here weren't particularly magnanimous when .com formed.

Furthermore, what is it with this "us vs. them" thing? I (and others) have been posting on both boards, does this make us members of both or traitors to both? It seems to me that we're the only ones trying to fight the divide in the community, while everyone else who has chosen sides is embracing the split.

On another note, one of the .com DBB "staff members" is coming into G rated servers and fwording me to death. If he continues doing that then I'm going to name him on every forum I can find. I knew it wouldn't be long before that place began to degenerate and spill over into the game servers which proves Koolbear was right all along...

I am sorry about you being targeted with F-bombs in games. I rarely saw that type of behavior back when I was playing, so it seems the in-game community has degraded a bit. But I believe you've complained about cussing in the past, way before .com was formed. So it could be that your causality argument is a bit weak there.

[Behemoth]

In another thread they are calling Fliptw a Nazi for closing a thread and that is ticking me off.

For one, if a person does a terrible job moderating they will hear about it from the rest of the board members, why should that tick you off anyways?

Another thing is most of the guys that created the dbb.com site have been on this one for AGES being upset towards them isnt going to mean much.

[WarAdvocat]

It looks like he won the argument.

Hmm I think it was more of a draw. His images are gone, he got an apology. A new policy was formed in the process. Everybody is happy.

On another note, one of the .com DBB "staff members" is coming into G rated servers and fwording me to death.

To DEATH? Wow. I didn't know the Taunt cannon was so effective. Personally, I'm invulnerable to the taunt cannon. No matter how well they aim, Taunt Cannon pilots can't score a single hit on me. Now, if only I could turn off the ability of FUSION cannon to damage me. I'd also like a missile filter.

[Iceman]

^^^ ROTFL!

[WarAdvocat]

Speak of the devil!

[Bet51987]

Ok, thanks for all the advice and not being mad at me. It was late and I should have thought more about it first. Its just that pedophiles are one of my peeves and that topic just lit me up. I don't go there or even have it bookmarked but I went when I was pm'd about the topic...which by the way, when I saw it, it was not in the NHB which is a category they obviously don't require. Anyway, I will leave it alone like Drakona said.

I am sorry about you being targeted with F-bombs in games. I rarely saw that type of behavior back when I was playing, so it seems the in-game community has degraded a bit. But I believe you've complained about cussing in the past, way before .com was formed. So it could be that your causality argument is a bit weak there.

No, its not a weak argument. I've played him before and he never used fwords until he became a dbb.com staff member so there may be something to the lax atmosphere over there. I think its along the lines of familiarity breeding contempt. I know for a fact who it is and so do my friends. He even has kids of his own, but lately he feels its cool to go into a g rated server and fword a 17 year old girl since he can't do it at home. Maybe he gets a sexual kick out of it but if it happens again, I'm going to name him to every forum I can find and that I'm not going to leave alone.

To be fair, there's also a thread here on .net where Fliptw is being called a Nazi. Why no mention of that?

Because he's our Nazi thats why. .

[Krom]

To be fair Flip is being called a Nazi by the same people on both .net and .com so that whole point is invalid.

[Lothar]

Its just that pedophiles are one of my peeves and that topic just lit me up. I don't go there or even have it bookmarked but I went when I was pm'd about the topic...

Right... and you clearly didn't understand what was going on in the discussion. Be careful not to get angry before you even understand what's going on...

I've played him before and he never used fwords until he became a dbb.com staff member...

He's probably always been a jerk. The fact that he adopted a new tactic for jerk-ness recently doesn't particularly reflect on dotcom, just on him.

[Avder]

The thread this thread speaks of has pretty much concluded.

It started with a joke post that was a little controversial but not meant to be taken seriously, some people did, the mods there responded a bit harshly, the topic was split, discussion ensued, tempers flared but were kept in check for the most part, the poster of the offending images explained himself a bit more, debate went on, people learned some things, the mods issued apologies, people learned a bit more about what is and isnt appropriate when taken in the context of the original thread with respect to the controversial images that were posted, everyone deded up happy, and Avder posted a long, long, run on sentance to this thread. He is not sorry

[WarAdvocat]

Bettina

Turn off audio taunts
Turn on Swear Filter
Start having fun!

Oh, and never let people know that they have scored on you Rewarding negative behavior by leaving only encourages more. You ever think that maybe they can't beat you without using the taunt cannon?

SubgheyCancer Soap Opera Drama!!!

[Iceman]

Buny Shhhhhhhh!

[*JBOMB*]

/me scratches bunbun off the \"who is harrassing bettina?\" list....

[Palzon]

Lothar seems to have summarized pretty well what what happened at the .com site. i ought to know since it was my post that was edited. i have no comment on that since the issue was resolved satisfactorily by all parties involved. i have no hard feelings about it and no further comment to the mod involved or .com members who took an interest in the issue.

apparently here, it's a different story.

lothar's version is the correct one. my post was intended as satire of something inappropriate - not to advocate something inappropriate. i chose to do it because i found it amusing that anyone would bother posting nudity (which was the point of the thread) when the last thing the internet needs is more nudity.

the worst i could be accused of is slightly derailing the thread, but i thought it would be received with enough humor to forgive the derail.

most of you know what i do for a living. for the record, later that morning (before there was a resolution at .com) I had to assess a case where I was speaking with a homicide detective about the death of an infant. It was difficult to deal with enough without the spectre of some insinuation over there that i was somehow out of line regarding children. I have to say it upset me a bit.

that's far from my first child death and it definitely won't be the last. i try to handle myself professionally in every situation because people's lives depend on it. there are two surviving children in that home. the wrong assessment could mean someone loses their life.

i think i did a good job considering how difficult that would be for most people to handle. a co-worker took a report on the same incident (from the ME's office). Her report sucked by comparison. It had about half the detail of mine and pathetic grammar. And when I got done questioning the detective he said I sounded like internal affairs, i.e. he complimented my thoroughness

i live and breathe to protect children from those who would harm them. I may joke in ways that make people uncomfortable, but they're just jokes. jokes don't hurt anyone. and if the joke makes someone undercomfortable, it may help them have a greater understanding of a difficult or painful issue. if you pay attention - sometimes a joke means the opposite of what you think it means at a glance.

i take my job very seriously. not only are pedophiles one my \"peeves\", but every working day I devote myself to doing something to stop sexual abuse, along with other types of abuse, and neglect (which can be just as bad).

now personally, I don't think two boards were necessary. hear me out. the real solution is that there should be no censorship here at .net, except in the cafe. then, minors are only allowed access to the cafe. period.

it's an adult world. it's a no holds barred world. no amount of whining is going to change that. moderation of it only serves to limit our discussions to the point that they are less meaningful. if we pretend the world is sterile and have sterile discussions with sterile comments and sterile humor, then our words are empty.

in society at large, the limits are placed where they should be - on the minors. why should it be any different here?

keep the kids in the cafe. moderators should only be modding for illegal content, crap posts/posts with no content, or flames that are devoid of any point (because some people deserve to be ★■◆● slapped). all other content should be allowed.

[Flabby Chick]

Well said, good post. I was wondering when somone was going to mention what you do for a living. (in conection to the start of this storm in a teacup that is) Shame it had to be you though.

[*JBOMB*]

I did not know what you did for a living...I did however think that you were a well meaning individual with a pretty grounded view of right and wrong..I'm glad that was resolved to YOUR satisfaction...I'd probably still be going on and on about it...

[roid]

Well said, good post. I was wondering when somone was going to mention what you do for a living. (in conection to the start of this storm in a teacup that is) Shame it had to be you though.

i wrote out a post several times, but kept deleting them before i posted them coz they were too harsh. Bett seems like a nice girl going through a hard time, i don't want to put her through a grinder, even though her foot's in her mouth.

/me takes the moral high ground

[Nirvana]

Its just that pedophiles are one of my peeves and that topic just lit me up.

But kids are so much tighter...

[WarAdvocat]

I'd just like to say, in my own incrimination, if I feel like dropping 1 F-Bomb, or 1000 in game, I probably will. Even if it makes lil miss Bettina squirm in discomfort.

What Palzon said about online forums goes about TRIPLE for online game servers. Maybe more. Dropping an F-Bomb is pretty much trivial and utterly inoffensive compared to some of the CS sprays I've seen, for instance.

Use the f'ing filters, turn off f'ing audio taunts and shut the f**k up.

Thanks

[Dedman]

Hey Bet, Both .com and .net are good boards. Think of it this way: we now have two flavors of ice-cream instead of just one. We now have chocolate and vanilla instead of just vanilla (don’t read anything into those two flavors; they were the first ones that came to mind). We now have a little sumpin for everybody.

Take a deep breath, relax, and have a glass of lemonade. You will learn as you get older that life is way too short to allow your self to get wrapped around the axle over the small stuff.

[Kilarin]

Dropping an F-Bomb is pretty much trivial and utterly inoffensive compared to some of the CS sprays I've seen, for instance.

But that's just the point. It's NOT inoffensive to everyone. So, why do some people feel a need to do it? The game is about flying around and shooting people, how does cursing add to the experiance? Especially when you are in the presence of someone who has let you know they prefer to avoid this kind of language.

Our community is small, and we need all the pilots we can get. It doesn't hurt to be a little sensitive and avoid cursing when in the presence of people who object to it. This USED to be common manners in all life.

[WarAdvocat]

But that's just the point. It's NOT inoffensive to everyone. So, why do some people feel a need to do it? .... It doesn't hurt to be a little sensitive and avoid cursing when in the presence of people who object to it.

Out of curiosity, exactly what is stopping them from turning on the profanity filter? While you're at it, please explain something: How is it GOOD manners to dictate what words others CAN and CANNOT say? If you use the profanity filter and turn off audio taunts, the problem is solved. Everybody gets what they want.

Why should I suffer when there is a "win-win" solution?

[Kilarin]

If you use the profanity filter and turn off audio taunts, the problem is solved.

Not denying that the profanity filter should be used. It just baffles me as to why it NEEDS to be used.

Why should I suffer when there is a "win-win" solution?

I guess what I don't understand is how abstaining from profanity when in a game with people who don't like it makes you suffer in any way? And, sorry for the rather crude example, but it's like not passing gas in an elevator, why stink up the air where others have to smell it? Or asking before smoking in someone elses presence. People who are offended by methane or smoke could go around wearing gas masks, but with a little common curtesy they wouldn't have to.

[Iceman]

Why? I do it because it pisses her off and her daddy doesn't like for her to play with mean old people like me. I play D3 for pure fun and when she comes into a level she starts ranting about .COM versus .NET stuff and all of her other opinions. I find it annoying ... kind of like a little gnat flying around my head. I am not one to normally use profanity but it it removes the gnat ... so be it.

If you don't want to be annoyed, don't be so annoying.

[edit]
BTW: If any of you hasn't figured it out yet, I am the one Bet was speaking of.

[Nosferatu]

Hey Kilarin. I just had an idea for a feature for CD. One thing I suggested in that previous \"Censorship\" whine of mine, is that individuals put a \"Profanity ok\" or \"No profanity\" tag in thier server name. (I was even thinking of running 2 servers at one point. One with OK and one where its not)

Maybe you could build into the CD server some way of noting that the server admin wishes the server to be clean language or not.

Just a suggestion.

[Hattrick]

\"G\" Rated servers??

filters and audio taunt disable are there for a reason.
Use them.
Don't expect people to fit in to your mold of how you believe people should act/talk.

[Kilarin]

Maybe you could build into the CD server some way of noting that the server admin wishes the server to be clean language or not.

Interesting Idea, you should suggest it to ZBriggs over in the Core Decision forum.

And I assume by "you could build", you were talking about the High Octane team. I don't work for them, and if I did, they would certainly put me doing something other then networking/server software. I stink at that aspect of programming.

If you don't want to be annoyed, don't be so annoying.

It WOULD be nice if the entire ".com vs .net" arguments could go away. There is just no reason to fight over that. BUT, shouting profanity still seems like a very imature way of dealing with the issue. IMHO.

Don't expect people to fit in to your mold of how you believe people should act/talk.

I don't. Unfortunantly, I also don't expect common curtesy anymore either.

[Krom]

Someone needs to find a way to disable ingame chat completely.

[Kilarin]

Someone needs to find a way to disable ingame chat completely.

Ha! Can you just set your "Message Level" low enough that NOTHING comes through?

[WarAdvocat]

#1 If you don't like profanity, -YOU- disable it. Take some personal responsibility for what you see. I -DO- have a right to freedom of expression. You do -NOT- have a right to regulate my freedom of expression except under certain very limited circumstances.

#2 I'm not into indiscriminate profanity, but I'll swear to make a point

#3 If a server is labelled \"no profanity\" I respect the wishes of the server op.

#4 dotcom & dotnet: pffth... irrelevant and yeah, bettina needs to STFU if she's whinging about it in games. Just like people giving KB crap about the DBB in a game, that's just uncalled-for.

#5 I think bettina is actually a 40-year-old man wearing a training bra and a pink lace g-string when he plays.

[Kilarin]

I think bettina is actually a 40-year-old man wearing a training bra and a pink lace g-string when he plays.

Always a possibility on the net. BUT, I doubt it in this case, AND I don't see that it really matters much. I prefer to avoid profanity, and I'm ALMOST a 40 year old man, but I look LOUSY in pink.

I don't play MP all that much, but I haven't really run into a lot of profanity when I do. On the rare occasions where it has gotten too thick, I've just left. Generally, the kind of people who get their thrills using massive amounts of profanity in an online game aren't mature enough to respond to a request to stop, and aren't really that much fun to play with anyway.

I -DO- have a right to freedom of expression. You do -NOT- have a right to regulate my freedom of expression except under certain very limited circumstances.

Ok, I was GOING to say that if you walk down a public street shouting profanity, the cops will ask you to stop. But I realized that probably isn't true anymore. Half the music playing on the radios is pretty much all profanity.

It's not about someone asking you not to ever use profanity. It's about someone asking you not to use it in a public place when there are people present who don't want to hear it.

BUT, there is an important point here:

#3 If a server is labelled "no profanity" I respect the wishes of the server op.

And THAT is it. When Bettina said that she was on "G rated servers", I was assuming she was playing on servers that had requested, "No Profanity".

I'm not attempting to say that there shouldn't be any servers that allow profanity. That would be as unfair as requiring all resturants to be non-smoking (which, much as I enjoy a smoke free environment, I think is a horrible offense against personal liberty). If a particular server says he doesn't care if you use profanity on his machine or not, then thats the terms. I still think it would be polite to abstain if someone requests that, but if you refuse, the obligation IS on their part to go to a "G rated server".

But in this case, Bettina said she WAS on servers that forbid profanity.

So yes, the profanity filters are a good way to protect yourself from people who are rude in inappropriate places, but it's a shame that we need them there.

[Bet51987]

Hey Bet, Both .com and .net are good boards. Think of it this way: we now have two flavors of ice-cream instead of just one. We now have chocolate and vanilla instead of just vanilla (don’t read anything into those two flavors; they were the first ones that came to mind). We now have a little sumpin for everybody.

Take a deep breath, relax, and have a glass of lemonade. You will learn as you get older that life is way too short to allow your self to get wrapped around the axle over the small stuff.

I can't believe I came home from school to this. I thought it would be over. I don't like lemonade, but ok... I'll relax and I'm sorry for being such a pain. I just didn't like what I initially saw about the 12 year old girl and over reacted. I'm not quick to react in real life, but here its easy to shoot first and fast without thinking, and couple that with the grudge I still hold that the community got split up, I looked for something to throw and when I found it, I threw it as hard as I could. I don't see vanilla and chocolate because I know why the other was formed. This is a problem I have to deal with personally and I hope I get over it soon.

Palzon, I know your a good person and your post made me think a lot too, and I'm really happy about the kind of work you do. I think its great and I have respect for you. I'm sorry I caused you such grief so I owe you an apology.

Kilarin, Thanks

I have no problem with fword text taunts. I don't care. However, audio tuants are a different matter and turning them off ruins the game for me. I rather not play if I can't hear someones taunts. So, I leave them on and when someone uses the fword and doesn't know me, I ask them please not to. Some of the nicer people oblige and some don't. In the latter case I just leave for another level. This is what I've done and it works fine for me so its not a problem....unless its Iceman. One game has a "Profanity OK" label which is what Nesferatu suggested a long time ago and it works for me. I just stay out of that one so his idea works.

WarAdvocat... Geez, I have to worry about you too now?

Iceman... First, your right, your the one I was talking about, and yes, it does make my daddy mad but he doesn't apply anymore. I'm old enough now to know what kind of language belongs where. Second, your not telling the truth. I only mentioned supporting .net once and only once in a game and you, and another person, slapped me for doing it, I knew you were both right, said I was sorry and stopped. I may have sulked for that game, but I didn't do it again anymore so I don't understand the little "gnat" flying around your head or why you chose, on the following nights, to come in and fword me to no end. I'm sure you specifically chose that taunt in hopes of finding me in a game. On one particular night there was a 13 year old girl that I enjoy playing with who also left.
So, if fwording a teen girl turns you on, or makes you feel superior, there is nothing I can do but go to another game. I may have a lot of growing up to do, but you should already know better. Now I can't play with you anymore.

I don't want chat removed, because it ruins the game for me. I just want courtesy, and if I don't get it, I just move on to another game. I've lost a lof of friends here because of my beliefs, but the ones I have left I wouldn't trade for anything.

Bettina