D2X-XL suggestions thread

Pumo · Post by **Pumo** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:39 pm

Nice, now the Headlight works as it should work a real Headlight.

And now, about the colored weapon lights, you are right that is already saturating,but then maybe instead of a simpler saturate model, you could use a multiplication light model like the Dodge of some paint programs and many games out there. Here i have screenshots that shows the colored light problem, even with mixed ambient light:

Image 1 (The original room, 75% white lighted entirely):

Image 2 (The same room, shooting a pure blue laser that darkens the red colors, and a light should not dark a room, since is \"light\"

):

I think a nicer light model should like something like this:

Image 3 (The same room with a false pure blue light drawn by me using Paint Shop Pro 9, with an Hue (Legacy) layer:

I hope it's not too difficult to achieve something like that, but many simple 3D Games uses some kind of multiplication light model that looks more like real light, and it really lights in all situations.

TechPro · Post by **TechPro** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:34 am

I like the weapons and invertory icons! What a cool idea!

Can we make it more \"apparent\" that the player either has or doesn't have an item? Perhaps not show that weapon/inventory item if the player doesn't have it?

Or maybe just not show any border around icons for weapons/inverntory that the player doesn't have... and then use a more 'muted' color for the border of items the player has but doesn't have selected?

The idea is to make it easier for the player to at a glance see what weapons/inventory he has and at a glance can more easily see what items are the currently selected items.

What do you think?

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:24 am

I think it's very good the way it is ...

... well, I have grayed the unavailable item icons a little more in v1.5.130.

Yeah, I think it's a very neat feature.

I had been thinking of something like that for a while, and done some experiments, but I had only wanted to have a small weapon icon for currently selected primary and secondary weapons in the fullscreen HUD.

Suncho's idea of having all weapons on the screen and somehow marked as active/available/unavailable had brought me on the right track though.

He certainly is a good beta tester with very good ideas, but sometimes all his bug reports digging up the most minor flaws and cosmetic issues in the rearmost dusty corner of D2X-XL are a pain in the neck ...

... particularly as I hate bugs, but wouldn't bother if I didn't know about them.

Peterix · Post by **Peterix** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:50 am

Pumo:
to clarify things a bit, d2x now uses multiplicative lighting for weapons.
It shouldn't be hard to make it additive, so d2x 'light' behaves more like the real word light. ( try shooting in very dark tunnels - no light at all)

D3Phoenix · Post by **D3Phoenix** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:54 pm

Minor issue, may be overly complicated to solve:

Fact: Many Modern graphics cards don't like resolutions less than 512x384. This is evident in the fact that sometimes I try to switch to 320x200 to show a friend what the game looked like originally; about 50% of the time I either have an immediate crash or afterwords the windows desktop gets screwed up (refusing to return to a reasonable resolution until I close and restart Explorer.exe)

My suggestion is this: Use pixel doubling to simulate lower resolutions. For example, for 320x240, render the game at that speed to a virtual buffer, then map that onto a 640x480 surface -- each pixel becomes a grouping of four pixels. I don't know how difficult this would be to implement; It's only a suggestion.

OR, you could eliminate resolutions below 640x480 altogether... replacing them with a single bullet: \"Classic Render Mode\" Which uses the pixel doubling technique and disables all of the nifty OGL enhancements... maybe even turn all sounds to 11K in this mode.

Or you could just file this away in some dark cabinet labeled \"things to ponder while bored\"

Nikolai · Post by **Nikolai** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:56 pm

How about an option to show inventory icons only?
By default D2 somehow shows weapon info in any screen mode. So I want to use your icons for inventory and keep only default information about weapons.

Pumo · Post by **Pumo** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:13 pm

Mmh, maybe peterix is right and the light is already multiplied now. So, like peterix say, how about make these colored weapon lights additive? Anything that makes the lights works better and more real, whatever the name is (Saturate,Multiplication,Add, etc...)

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:39 pm

THEY ARE ADDITIVE!

Check the code if you don't believe it, file main/render.c.

Pumo · Post by **Pumo** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:07 pm

Aaarrghh!! I'm confused!
Well, if they are Additive, Multiplicative or whatever (i don't care now

) the only thing i say is if it's posible to make th colored lights like the ones in D3, where you shoot a blue, purple (or whatever) laser and doesn't darks the room and seems more brighter. I simply want a way that the light looks more like the edited image i post.

Peterix · Post by **Peterix** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:41 pm

Well, i looked at the code and it surely does use additive lights, it just doesn't look like it does ingame.

i'm puzzled
i'll try messing with the code some more tomorrow

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:46 pm

I couldn't observe this darkening effect.

Pumo · Post by **Pumo** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:35 pm

If you shoot blue over gray textures there is no visible problem. The darkening happens only in certain combination of colored light and textures. You can see how the Blue darkens the Red/orange (the inverse colors) in the second screenshot i posted above.

TechPro · Post by **TechPro** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:03 am

Is there any possibility of the weapons and inventory icons being placed above and below the view window when using the \"Letterbox\" view?

Since there is unused black space above and below the view in that mode... it would be cool if those icons could be in that black area thus keeping them from obscuring the view in any way... and keep the view clean.

No problem if that's not possible.
Thanks!

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:00 pm

I could do that, but the icons are part of HUD.

Aus-RED-5 · Post by **Aus-RED-5** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:02 pm

I like this version of the menu better then the new!

OLD VERSION OF MENU ^^^^

NEW VERSION OF MENU ^^^^

The old version has the Vertigo and D2x-xl logos under the XL. Kinda keeps that D2 old school look but with the new, if ya know what I mean.

Anyways we can change that? Adding an option or something?

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:14 am

Aus-RED,

I cannot determine the nicest position of the version info for every possible custom menu background, and personally I like the new version more.

Aus-RED-5 · Post by **Aus-RED-5** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:20 am

Ok, fine then........
See if I ever make anything else for this project again!

J/K!

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:30 am

How about that wallpaper with the smaller D2X-XL text in the upper left corner, on the planet?

Aus-RED-5 · Post by **Aus-RED-5** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:36 am

Diedel wrote:

How about that wallpaper with the smaller D2X-XL text in the upper left corner, on the planet?

OI! We are the ones who make suggestion here.... Not YOU! LMAO

Once again....J/K

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:41 am

You don't need to explain that you're joking all the time. So far I've understood your humor pretty well.

Peterix · Post by **Peterix** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:41 am

Hi,
back to the lights!

I've made a pitch black test level with no lights and did some test with lasers.

img1: lasers in D1

If you really used additive lighting, the white lights should remain white.

img2: my black room, lighted by flares

img3: the same room, 'lighted' by lasers

As you can see, the room stays dark, while it shouldn't.

img4: same room, laser explosions(white) are colorized by lasers(red)

What happens here should be quite obvious: you are using multiplicative lighting for weapon lights and that piece of code you showed me doesn't work the way it should.

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:50 am

Peterix,

why don't you whip up your debugger and check/fix the code yourself instead of indirectly saying I lied to you?

If the colored light is brighter than the ambient white light, it will colorize it.

If you want to check that, don't check with a pitch black level, test it with a full bright level.

Peterix · Post by **Peterix** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:08 am

I'm not saying you lied to me and if it sounds like i did, it wasn't my intent.
Maybe it's shaders, maybe it's something else.
I'm looking at the code right now, but it will take some time to learn how it all works.
Anyway
version 133,
use light maps, enable colored light + colored weapon light + mix lights all checked.

Don't take my posts THAT seriously.

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:06 am

The primary weapon icons cover up the multiplayer players score....

having a one line space between the inventory icons is a start, but why can't the text just be on top???

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:01 pm

Peterix,

obviously you didn't read or don't understand what I said. Here an example (regard that there is no colored light in Descent 1 or 2, you only have brightness values. All light is white by default).

ambient light (r,b,g) (0.5,0.5,0.5) + green laser (0.0,1.0,0.0) = (0.5,1.5,0.5)

1.5 gets capped to one. Result will not be white light.

Kirby,

why don't you place the icons at the sides and at the top?

ToxicFrog · Post by **ToxicFrog** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:18 pm

On the topic of weapon icons, it would be nice to have missile count and vulcan ammo count displayed somewhere on them.

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:48 pm

I know. =)

BossHossV8Cycles · Post by **BossHossV8Cycles** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:52 pm

My issue here is the map. The map's rotation seems to be fixated on the ship dot's orientation. So, when you roll the map 180°, the rotation keys end up visually rotating the map in the opposite direction.
So, it would be nice if the roll keys caused the map's rotation orientation to roll as well so that when you do hit the rotate left key the map rotates left despite how much you roll it. This would make viewing the map a little easier.

My second problem is the +/- keys... at least for me, they don't seem to work.

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:21 pm

Diedel wrote:Kirby,

why don't you place the icons at the sides and at the top?

????? I thought I was doing that

I'm sorry....but doing that just makes perfect sense to me instead of making empty space between text

Suncho · Post by **Suncho** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:09 pm

1. I'd like to see wider text messages in multiplayer.

2. I'd like to see the following things turned into cheat codes and never allowed in multiplayer:

a. Dual Missiles
b. Disabling the Ship Wiggle
c. Mouselook.

3. I'd like to see radar be usable in multiplayer. I don't think player ship should be visible on the automap (or radar) so I always disable that option, but it unfortunately disables radar too.

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:22 am

Suncho,

These features are controlled server side and not available at all if the server doesn't use D2X-XL, and that means complete control over them.

Ship wiggling is always on during multiplayer.

If you continue to insist on making mouselook etc. cheats, you will really upset me. Stop it.

ToxicFrog · Post by **ToxicFrog** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:02 am

What does ship wiggle do, anyways?

(argh, why does DBB keep logging me out)

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:26 am

DBB logouts: Clear cookies and enter http://www.descentbb.net in your browser's address line to get here, and put that URI into your favorites.

Wiggling is the 'bobbing' of the ship when it is idling. When the ship is moving, it doesn't wiggle anyway (and if you don't move in multiplayer your dead really quick) so there is really no point to demanding wiggling to be mandatory during multiplayer (but heck, it is!).

CarzyRoBoT · Post by **CarzyRoBoT** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:33 pm

If you have a robot with a camera trigger in a level, and that robot bites the dust, could you make it so that the camera trigger goes with it, instead of automatically switching to player view? It's kinda fun seeing yourself blasting robots through the robots' perspective (I set up a marker in front of the monitor and watch through my cockpit windows

), but I'd like it if the camera switched OFF when I off the robot carrying it.

Suncho · Post by **Suncho** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:48 pm

Diedel wrote:Suncho,

These features are controlled server side and not available at all if the server doesn't use D2X-XL, and that means complete control over them.

Ship wiggling is always on during multiplayer.

I was just playing the other day and I saw dual missiles coming out of my ship. I never turned it on and I had to go into the menu to turn it off. That's what I'm trying to avoid. It's just a feature request anyway. =)

Diedel wrote: If you continue to insist on making mouselook etc. cheats, you will really upset me. Stop it.

Ok.

One more: In D1x, when you press the F7 key, you can turn on player ping times. It would be neat to have a feature like that (where the pings are displayed next to the player names/scores).

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 3:29 pm

Robot,

that's actually a bug.

CarzyRoBoT · Post by **CarzyRoBoT** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:09 pm

You mean that WASN'T intentional?

Oops...

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:45 pm

I wonder whether it works now ... I built a fix into D2X-XL v1.5.138, but didn't test it.

Suncho,

dual missile launch being *on* by default was a bug. The data structure containing this value is pretty big, and counting all these little, comma-delimited digits is pretty error prone ...

Nikolai · Post by **Nikolai** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:51 am

I want an option to remove the bitmap frame around the automap. Without the frame more screen is available to view the map. And I think the frame was absent in D1...

What is now:

What is desired:

spud · Post by **spud** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 2:10 pm

D1x also shows loss percentages next to the ping times... A very handy feature IMHO.

spud

D2X-XL suggestions thread

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