M$ Sidewinder 3D Pro on USB

Xamindar · Post by **Xamindar** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:10 pm

Suncho wrote:Isn't that how you kill circuit boards... by putting them on the outside of anti-static bags?

You're kidding right? that is the funniest thing I have read today.

Genghis · Post by **Genghis** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:10 pm

Xamindar wrote:
Suncho wrote:Isn't that how you kill circuit boards... by putting them on the outside of anti-static bags?
You're kidding right? that is the funniest thing I have read today.

I believe Suncho is right, at least in theory, if we're talking about *running* components (powering them up while they sit on the bag). A common misconception is that antistatic bags are insulating; in fact they are conductive (to varying extents). A component stored inside a bag is protected by kind of a faraday cage effect. But put a circuit board on top of a bag then run a current through it and the bag could present an attractive path for electrons, with all those solder points touching it. You could get a short, or get side effects like heat generation or power dissapation. Kind of like of putting your board on top of aluminum foil while it's running.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:16 pm

Hm, I should mention not to operate it on top of the bag in the manual. I ordered pretty small ones so you can't operate it inside the bag

Edit: shouldn't be a problem -- resistance is > 40MOhm.

[moved]

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:15 pm

Well... I am the proud owner of one extremely well-sealed, well-nigh indestructable Priority Mail Envelope!

Wait! My leatherman wave seems to have done the trick after much maneuvering and sawing!

YES, it has arrived! Whoohoo!

next stop... Radio Shack.

Xamindar · Post by **Xamindar** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:42 pm

Can you add me to the waiting list for a second one?

(I actually have two 3dpros)

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:44 pm

Sure

I love those envelopes, you need a chainsaw w/ a diamond blade to cut into them

We're finishing up the manual tonight, planning to send units tomorrow.

[moved]

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:44 pm

Note: I'll build one more unit. I had to order some caps from DigiKey and wanted to meet the $25 minimum/order. I moved Zombie up since VPN-User will get one from Checkors batch and Xamindar already got one

I still haven't heard from some ppl, so there still may be the one or other unit comming up for grabs ..

[moved]

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:11 am

[moved]

Xamindar · Post by **Xamindar** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:23 am

What is Checkors batch?

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:42 am

The 3 units Do_Checkor gets

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:41 pm

While I'm thinking about it, does anyone have any tips on cutting out openings for the ports in one of those Radio Shack boxes? I'm not exactly what you'd call mechanically literate.

I do know that we have a Craftsman version of a Dremel lying around at home; would that be the way to go? Note that I'd prefer to keep all of my fingers intact after the procedure is finished.

Xamindar · Post by **Xamindar** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:52 pm

The dremel type thing is probably a good idea. I have a rotozip that works well for these types of things.

I have also used something really hot such as a soldering iron in the past for cutting plastic holes bu that is less pretty as I'm sure you can imagine.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:28 pm

I used a Dremel w/ a grinding disk. Here're the positions/sizes of the holes (w/o the excess.) Excuse my paint skills ..

. Note, dimension is millimeter for all values !

[*]

Edit: the grinding disk is called a \"Cutting Wheel\" ..

[moved]

[*] Images recycled. Most can be found here.

Pun · Post by **Pun** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:13 pm

Got mine today! I must say that Grendel did a great job with this. The soldering is very nice. The packaging is perfect, from the heat sealed a/s bag, right down to the nicely printed documentation and decals for the project box. Thanks so much for this project. I'll be assembling tomorrow. Fine, fine job!

Thanks also to KoolBear and the rest of the peeps who helped put this together. You guys rock!

Fusion · Post by **Fusion** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:14 pm

Got PM that mine was shipped yesterday, and got it here today! Fastest I ever got something that I ordered online!

Can't wait to assemble this critter and test it on the stick I got months ago from my job.(Goodwill) Course it helps that I am so geographicly close to Gren, only @ 1-2 hours driving time(Only an estimate, since I don't drive).

Fus

KoolBear · Post by **KoolBear** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:57 am

Dimensional Prints for Radio Shack Box Modifications

Hopefully this will make the dimensions a little easier to understand. Becareful, if you cut it wrong you'll have an additional set of holes you didn't want

I meant to complete it sooner. I haven't verified Grendel's dimensions.

Dimensional Prints for Radio Shack Box Modifications ..DOWNLOAD HERE !

zapp · Post by **zapp** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:13 am

Got mine yesterday, but just had a chance to test it- works great!
One interesting observation- if I have a 3d pro plugged in hte game port, and then attach another one w/ the adapter, the gameport stick suddenly shows \"not connected\". If I unplug/replug it in, it reconnects and works OK. Any idea why this would happen?
Anyway, thanks for the great adapter!

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:21 am

Very cool, KB ! Thanks

zapp wrote:One interesting observation- if I have a 3d pro plugged in hte game port, and then attach another one w/ the adapter, the gameport stick suddenly shows "not connected". If I unplug/replug it in, it reconnects and works OK. Any idea why this would happen?

Strange. On my test machine (with a 3DP on a SB16 gameport) the one on the gameport goes briefly to "NC" when I plug or unplug the converter. What kind of computer is it ? OS ?

[moved]

Suncho · Post by **Suncho** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:19 pm

Thanks Grendel! Got mine today. =)

Xamindar · Post by **Xamindar** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:51 pm

Yay! Just got mine as well today! Thanks!

Deadmeat · Post by **Deadmeat** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 6:37 pm

It just arrived.

/me rips open package.

/me goes to emergency room to have broken fingers reset.

/me breaks out diamond tipped chainsaw. Make note to self to replace chain.

Cost of emergency room..............$2500.00
Cost of diamond chain...................don't ask

Owning a genuine 3DP-Vert..........priceless

Suncho · Post by **Suncho** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 6:40 pm

I just bought 8 NiB 3dpros for $40. =)

KoolBear · Post by **KoolBear** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 7:00 pm

Recieved 2 brand spankin new 3D along with my 1 gives my 3 systems each a 3d Pro

Impressive indeed! Professional manual, packaging, damn dood too bad I didn't get that print to you sooner, maybe you can print it out and include it in the remaining units

Look's really kool with my red led usb cable

KB

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 7:31 pm

My LED doesn't peek out of my hole, and my dremel work is ATROCIOUS but I got it in the box. Thanks again Grendel. Maybe I should buy another box

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:25 pm

KoolBear wrote:.. damn dood too bad I didn't get that print to you sooner, maybe you can print it out and include it in the remaining units

Already did that w/ the ones I sent today

WarAdvocat wrote:My LED doesn't peek out of my hole ..

It's actually not supposed to. I left the leads on the LED's long so ppl can bend/fold them. I used a double fold (to have it laying on the board) plus a light pipe from Mouser Electronics

W/o the pipe it should still shine bright enough into the hole to be easily visible.

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:51 pm

Oh nice and here I thought I'd screwed up.

Awesome!

zapp · Post by **zapp** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:36 pm

zapp wrote:One interesting observation- if I have a 3d pro plugged in hte game port, and then attach another one w/ the adapter, the gameport stick suddenly shows "not connected". If I unplug/replug it in, it reconnects and works OK. Any idea why this would happen?

Grendel wrote:Strange. On my test machine (with a 3DP on a SB16 gameport) the one on the gameport goes briefly to "NC" when I plug or unplug the converter. What kind of computer is it ? OS ?

It is an Asus A7n8x deluxe v2 motherboard,, using the onboard game port, AMD athlon 2500+ o/c to 3200+, XP pro SP2

Xamindar · Post by **Xamindar** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:41 pm

Yay! I tried it and it works great!

It even works in Linux. But for some reason Descent3 and Freespace2 are not able to detect the hat switch

. I can not even set it in the configs. I have confirmed that the hat does work in Linux with other games such as vendetta online so it must be a Descent3/Freespace2 thing. Interesting. Is there a different way that the converter sends the hat signal that may confuse D3?

Also in Linux, the LED on the unit only lights up when I launch a game or program that uses the joystick. Kinda cool, I know when it is being \"accessed\".

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:20 am

zapp wrote:
zapp wrote:One interesting observation- if I have a 3d pro plugged in hte game port, and then attach another one w/ the adapter, the gameport stick suddenly shows "not connected". If I unplug/replug it in, it reconnects and works OK. Any idea why this would happen?

Grendel wrote:Strange. On my test machine (with a 3DP on a SB16 gameport) the one on the gameport goes briefly to "NC" when I plug or unplug the converter. What kind of computer is it ? OS ?
It is an Asus A7n8x deluxe v2 motherboard,, using the onboard game port, AMD athlon 2500+ o/c to 3200+, XP pro SP2

Hm, I'm surprised it works at all

The only "explaination" I could come up w/ is that USB transfer on the MB is done w/ DMA, that would interrupt the timing critical gameport accesses just enough to disturb the 3DP initialization.

Xamindar wrote:But for some reason Descent3 and Freespace2 are not able to detect the hat switch . I can not even set it in the configs. I have confirmed that the hat does work in Linux with other games such as vendetta online so it must be a Descent3/Freespace2 thing. Interesting. Is there a different way that the converter sends the hat signal that may confuse D3?

No, the hat data is part of the HID USB packet. It should work tho if the games see the other buttons & axis. I spent quite some time w/ various tools defining & finetuning the HID descriptor. You don't happen to have a PP w/ the USB dongle ? Would be interesting to see if that would work.

[moved]

Xamindar · Post by **Xamindar** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:00 pm

Grendel wrote:
Xamindar wrote:But for some reason Descent3 and Freespace2 are not able to detect the hat switch . I can not even set it in the configs. I have confirmed that the hat does work in Linux with other games such as vendetta online so it must be a Descent3/Freespace2 thing. Interesting. Is there a different way that the converter sends the hat signal that may confuse D3?
No, the hat data is part of the HID USB packet. It should work tho if the games see the other buttons & axis. I spent quite some time w/ various tools defining & finetuning the HID descriptor. You don't happen to have a PP w/ the USB dongle ? Would be interesting to see if that would work.

Ok, I just figured out what my problem is. The hat is sent as another two axis and in D3 and Freespace2 (and d2x) you specify sliding in a different section if you are using an "axis" instead of seperate buttons. I finally got suspicous when even d2x-xl wouldn't detect it and so I tried going down to the axis settings and setting it there. It worked. I guess I was so used to the hat being another 4 buttons or so as it is with the normal sidewinder driver in linux. WORKS PERFECTLY IN LINUX!:D

Again, thanks Grendel! I feel like I have a brand new updated 3d pro.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:56 pm

The following ppl have not picked up their PM yet, could someone w/ Yahoo msgr or icq drop them a note please ?

Diezman (sent an email)
Motorman!
Skywzrd
elliotm

Thx, G.

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:53 am

Heck, my converters have arrived (yes, I've got two!

), and dude do they look neat! Sweet!

But where in all the earth do I get those Radioshack housing boxes in Germany?

Well, maybe I'll find something in a local electronics store ... I hope.

Deadmeat wrote:It just arrived.

/me rips open package.

/me goes to emergency room to have broken fingers reset.

/me breaks out diamond tipped chainsaw. Make note to self to replace chain.

Cost of emergency room..............$2500.00
Cost of diamond chain...................don't ask

Owning a genuine 3DP-Vert..........priceless

ROFL

Genghis · Post by **Genghis** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:22 am

Got mine yesterday! Quite the professional job, with instruction manuals and stickers and everything! Thanks again, Grendel!

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:20 am

Diedel wrote:But where in all the earth do I get those Radioshack housing boxes in Germany? Well, maybe I'll find something in a local electronics store ... I hope.

Hm, didn't think about that .. a quick check brought up this box from Conrad (TEKO KLEIN-GEHÄUSE P1, Artikel-Nr.: 523917-62). It's not a 100% fit, this one doesn't have posts to screw the board to. You'll have to improvise some.

click

zapp · Post by **zapp** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:53 pm

I just had a thought... does this converter work w/ other joysticks? I don't have any other kind, so I can't really test it.
Also, Grendel, Koolbear's given me space to put up my sidewinder repair page @ zapp.koolbear.com, so as soon as your tutorial is ready I'll slap it up alongside the repair page.

KoolBear · Post by **KoolBear** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:11 pm

Zapp,

Last night I started a website for the 3DP-Vert I will finish it this weekend I hope.

Grendel,

Please forward me the manual so I can htmlify it.

KB

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:04 pm

zapp wrote:I just had a thought... does this converter work w/ other joysticks? I don't have any other kind, so I can't really test it.

No, only w/ the 3D Pro. Not even w/ other M$ sticks (that's rooted in the analog emulation mode and the more detailed data packet -- the 3DP is quite unique among the SideWinder devices.)

However, I'm right now looking into the LogiTech's ADI protocol they used in the gameport based WingMan series -- got a Cyberman II I'd like to try one day

I may or may not come up w/ a working version.

KoolBear wrote:Please forward me the manual so I can htmlify it.

Uh, I think I need to change it a bit 1st -- it's 18MB right now..

[moved]

Do_Checkor · Post by **Do_Checkor** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:58 pm

Thanks alot Grendel. Received your package already yesterday. Tried them out and all work properly (haven't expected something different actually but hey - dunno what the costums did with the pack

)

Here's a screener like a wet dream for people who love the 3D Pro:

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:11 am

Grendel wrote:The following ppl have not picked up their PM yet, could someone w/ Yahoo msgr or icq drop them a note please ?

Diezman (sent an email)
Motorman!
Skywzrd
elliotm

Thx, G.

Still nothing. Also I did not get any feedback from Perediablo and Unix -- yuou guys still interested ?

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:06 pm

Just got the package. Very professional.

Hopefully, I'll get the chance to run to Radio Shack tomorrow and pick up the necessary hardware.

M$ Sidewinder 3D Pro on USB

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