M$ Sidewinder 3D Pro on USB

Skywzrd · Post by **Skywzrd** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 2:56 am

Grendel wrote:Still nothing. Also I did not get any feedback from Perediablo and Unix -- yuou guys still interested ?

I finally returned your PM, Grendel. Sorry for the delay.

I must admit, I'm really impressed. Your contribution has probably insured Descent's survival for at least a few more years.

Although, I'm not sure if it'll work in Windows Vista. I read somewhere that it won't run unsupported devices\\software. Hopefully someone can correct me on this.

Sky

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:01 pm

Thx

Vista should see and use it just fine since there is no driver needed.

[moved]

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:44 am

Sorry, have been sick the last 5 days ..

Catching up w/ the backlog ..

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:20 pm

I hope you were able to get some rest and are now feeling better.
Now... hurry up and get posting

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:40 pm

Nice avatar

You should try to find a picture of Bub tho

[moved]

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:44 pm

Just wanted to say that I finally got around to making a Radio Shack run, and after a little bit of self-education in rotary tool usage, I managed to get everything pieced together. (I was slightly annoyed that the Radio Shack project box I purchased didn't include the necessary screws, but luckily I had some lying around that did the job.) The converter works like a dream; once again, thanks for a job well done.

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:59 am

Hey Gren, any way you could make the artwork and parts list public, so people (like me) could built one up from sctratch in a bread board?

KoolBear · Post by **KoolBear** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:40 am

Grendel.

If you would like to make documentation public let me know and I'll update http://grendel.koolbear.com/3dpro.htm

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:58 pm

Sorry for the sketchy reply, I'm still suffering from a @#$%&*+ flu..

KB, sure go ahead and post the schematic/gerber files. I still need some time to get some documents going, just don't expect that tomorrow

Here's an excerpt from a PM I sent zapp when he was asking about building a unit w/ the board tho:

Grendel wrote:
zapp wrote:.. what are your thoughts, having built several now? Can it be done by the average 3D pro user?
I would say no. Not w/o all the parts as a set and even then it requires good soldering skills. Someone who never before did some soldering should not attempt it.. The main hurdles to build a converter: 1. parts. You can get the full set of parts only at professional electronics shops like DigiKey -- RadioShack won't do. 2. the board. I paid $440 for 60 boards. I have to check the details, but usually you have a setup fee and them pay a smaller fee for each panel (20 boards/panel in this case. Since we didn't know if all 20 would be usable I ordered 3 panels) 3. programming the microcontroller. Even tho I plan to release the program ready to be put into the Mega8, to do it yourself you would need to build a programming cable (goes to the parallel port of a PC) and then use PonyProg2000 (freeware) to program the chip. Plus I individualized the software, it has a running serial number that needs to be patched into the image file (I can document that too tho.)

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Sllik · Post by **Sllik** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:40 pm

*blinks* Do my eyes deceive me?!

GIMME!

*rushes to the closet and breaks out two pristine and unused 3D Pros that have been waiting for this moment*

Unix · Post by **Unix** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 4:01 pm

Just got mine a few days ago - works like a fuckin charm...THANKS GRENDEL!!

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:26 pm

Sllik wrote:GIMME!

I can offer a space on the waiting list .. I will most likely build a few more units.

[moved]

BUBBALOU · Post by **BUBBALOU** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 10:18 am

STATUS????

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:55 pm

Working on it -- I'm very busy ATM, sorry. I'll get that going ASAP.

Xamindar · Post by **Xamindar** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 8:19 pm

KoolBear wrote:
BUBBALOU wrote:STATUS????
ALL CAPS! gee that's nice, if I was Grendel you might not get yours you bad boy

aww, he's always rude in the forums. I just learned to ignore him.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 8:27 pm

He's only rude to stupid people.

Xamindar · Post by **Xamindar** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 8:33 pm

Ferno wrote:He's only rude to stupid people.

Grendel's stupid?

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 8:58 pm

Xamindar wrote: Grendel's stupid?

LMAO. woosh.

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:33 pm

Demand > Supply => Raise Price

KoolBear · Post by **KoolBear** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:42 pm

A PM I just sent to Bubba ...

KoolBear wrote:lol, sorry man I never should have posted that. I just got home from the hospital, Tuesday night I went to the emergency room, turned out I had pancritus, man spent two days on koriphine, acutal got home about thirty minutes before I posted that.

If I offended you please allow me to beg your fogiveness.

WOW and after re-reading the above it'sobvious I'm still doped up

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:32 pm

[moved]

There will be 41 units available, price per unit is $25 (US) + $1 (US) packaging + shipping (~$5 w/in the US).

Units will be made on order, I'll start assembling units and send payment details via PM/email to everyone on the list below in 1st-come-1st-served order as time permits.

So far the following people have reservations:

[01] 2x Grendel
[03] 1x Avder
[04] 1x Harold
[05] 1x Koolbear
----------
[06] 1x WarAdvocat
[07] 1x Top Gun
[08] 3x Genghis
[11] 1x ReadyMan
[12] 1x Punisher
[13] 1x VonVulcan
[14] 1x BUBBALOU
[15] 1x DeadMeat
[16] 2x Perediablo
[18] 2x Diedel
[20] 1x Unix
[21] 1x Avder lost in the mail
[22] 1x talljon
[23] 1x Ferno
[24] 1x Pugwash
[25] 1x Skywzrd
[26] 1x Suncho
[27] 1x Fusion
[28] 1x Zapp
[29] 1x Hostile
[30] 2x Klasher
[32] 1x Xamindar
[33] 2x Koolbear
[35] 1x Psion
[36] 1x Zefrench
[37] 1x Cuda68
[38] 3x Do_Checkor
[41] 1x Zombie
[42] 1x Grendel
==
42

[nn] is the serial no., color code is:
* WIP
* unit built
* PM or email sent
* PM not picked up
* payment received
* unit shipped
* reservation expired

These 3 guys had reservations in the 1st batch but never picked up their notification:

1x MotorMan!
1x elliotm
1x Diezman

The first few units will be send w/o a \"manual\" (WIP ..), here are the basics:

This is what you should have gotten (plus some bubble wrap):

[*]

There is no particular order for connecting the converter to the PC, in case you use it w/o any protection outside a PC it's recommended to proceed as follows:

connect a MicroSoft SideWinder 3D Pro to the converters DSUB-15 connector
connect the B end of a USB A-B cable the the converters USB connector
place the converter at a spot on your desk where the other end of the USB cable will reach a USB port of your computer. Make sure there is no metal under the converter or even close to it !
make sure the 3D Pro is in the neutral position
connect the A end of the USB A-B cable to a USB port on your computer
while the converter is connected, do not touch it. Do no drop anything on it. Keep your pets away from it. I can't stress this enough: make sure nothing made out of metal comes into contact w/ any part of the converter while it is operating !! Failure to do so may destroy the converter and/or damage your computer !! It is strongly recommended to box the unit or mount it inside your PC.

The first time the converter is connected to your PC (while also connected to a 3D Pro) the \"Found New Hardware\" process will start and configure Windows for using the converter. After this finishes (about 10s), open the \"Gaming Options\" (2k) or \"Game Controllers\" (XP) panel found in the \"Control Panel\". You should see the entry \"Microsoft SideWinder 3D Pro (USB)\". Double click the entry and operate the 3D Pro.

The converter can be disconnected from the USB port anytime, w/ or w/o the 3D Pro connected.

The converter can stay connected to your PC 24/7. You can power cycle or reboot the PC w/ the converter connected.

Switching the little emulation select switch on the back of the 3D Pro will cause the 3D Pro to reset. In that case the converter will restart and reinitialize the 3D Pro. You will loose the 3D Pro for about 2s if that happens.

I you are going to use the 3D Pro w/ Descent 3, proceed as follows:

open Notepad

copy the following four lines and paste them into Notepad:

Code: Select all

[controller settings]

name=Microsoft SideWinder 3D Pro (USB)
deadzone=0.0

check for spaces at the end of the pasted lines and remove them (important)
save the file as Mssw3dpu.ctl into your Descent 3 root directory (usually c:\\games\\descent3)

This seems to kill the default deadzone of DirectInput and is independent from the -deadzone commandline parameter. The later is applied by D3 on the values delivered by DI.

[*] Images recycled. Most can be found here.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:29 pm

Whew, all converters are gone & delivered (except the one for Zefrench, it's most likely still in the mail..). Thanks all for your patience and prompt funds allocation

! A special thanks to everybody who sent some extra money (you know who you are) !

I hope you will enjoy playing Descent (and any upcomming 6dof game) the way it's ment to be played -- w/ a MS SW 3D Pro !

Since I still have some boards, I'm planning to build a few more units -- I just don't know when exactly (probably w/in the next 6 months). Meanwhile I'll maintain the waiting list and post any status updates here.

Genghis · Post by **Genghis** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:36 pm

Whew, I'll bet you're glad that's over! You did a kick-ass job and we're all very grateful. Thanks again!

LunchBox · Post by **LunchBox** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:19 pm

Damn that sucks. Makes me number the first loser on this deal.. CRAP

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:33 pm

I hope the one lost in the mail can be recovered ..

LunchBox · Post by **LunchBox** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:48 pm

Apparently I do too

Puck · Post by **Puck** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:51 pm

Doh, I just found this thread. Been trying to get my old 3DP working with no luck. Am I too late to put an order in?

Ciccio · Post by **Ciccio** » Sun May 07, 2006 6:18 am

Grendel
is it possible to have the firmware to program ATMega?

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Sun May 07, 2006 3:15 pm

Ciccio, I can get you the hex image. PM me.

New list

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LunchBox · Post by **LunchBox** » Sun May 07, 2006 4:31 pm

Cool. now I can buy the motherboard I was thinking of getting.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Mon May 08, 2006 12:55 pm

Ordering parts right now ..

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Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Fri May 12, 2006 11:39 am

Got the parts today, as usual DigiKey f'ed something up tho. Instead of sending the thirteen LM556 I now got thirteen SSM2019.. Working on it.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Tue May 16, 2006 11:14 am

Got the right parts -- DigiKey support is pretty good

Now I just need to find some time ..

I'll reserve #54 for now, a spare may come handy in case USPS loses another one..

[moved]

LunchBox · Post by **LunchBox** » Fri May 19, 2006 10:44 am

Does the blue saying built mean I need to send ya some money>?

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Fri May 19, 2006 11:47 am

Nope. If it goes orange.I'm still far off from sending stuff -- I just built the 1st one to verify the components work (for some reason it's nearly impossible to get the exact same parts from DigiKeyu after a month or two..).

Sllik · Post by **Sllik** » Fri May 19, 2006 2:42 pm

A question for you relating to something you mentioned in your very first post, Grendel. I'm assuming it is possible, but I wanted to confirm or see if you had tried putting it to the test: Is it possible to use the open-source drivers you mentioned for Linux with the 3D Pro and your converter box?

I confess I've fallen in love with the Saitek Evo as an alternative for the interim, especially since I'm using it in my left hand (it's an ambidexterous stick) and a mouse in my right. ;p Call me insane, but I'm lovin it now that I've retrained my brain. I have even more maneuverability than I used to, I'm just still sluggish at times and my aim is a little off because using both simultaneously hasn't become 100% second nature yet.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Fri May 19, 2006 4:32 pm

Sllik wrote:I'm assuming it is possible, but I wanted to confirm or see if you had tried putting it to the test: Is it possible to use the open-source drivers you mentioned for Linux with the 3D Pro and your converter box?

If you hook the 3DP up w/ the converter, Linux will use its general purpose joystick HID driver instead the 3DP specific one -- I haven't tried it but I know ppl use the 3DP-Vert w/ Linux. Technically there's an advantage using the converter, it a. frees up the CPU from polling the 3DP and b. the polling frequency is higher w/ the converter (125Hz).

Sllik wrote:I confess I've fallen in love with the Saitek Evo as an alternative for the interim,

Eeew. I tried the Evo, sux even more than a Logitech stick..

Waaaay too much travel IMHO (I donated it as a price for a LAN party..) Also I wasn't very impressed by the build quallity. But that's me, your millage will vary of course. Do you still want a converter ?

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Mon May 22, 2006 3:30 pm

Ordered parts for the last 3 boards.. No more 3DP-Verts after this run..

[moved]

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Tue May 30, 2006 11:10 am

Would the converter work for an Logitech Extreme 3D Pro? Perhaps some modification of code...

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Tue May 30, 2006 12:43 pm

Canuck wrote:Would the converter work for an Logitech Extreme 3D Pro? Perhaps some modification of code...

Uh, that stick is already USB.. http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/produ ... ENTID=6954

M$ Sidewinder 3D Pro on USB

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