A video for nOObs

d3jake · Post by **d3jake** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:25 am

Well, me and Erik decided to create a \"Tips\" video for noobs. Yes, you'd probably like to beat the lessons into the noobs personally... But we figured we be nice and make a video, if anything it can be watched for it's entertainment value.
Here it is! I hope you at least got a chuckle out of it!

Suncho · Post by **Suncho** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:01 pm

This video is a joke right?

Money! · Post by **Money!** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:17 pm

Sorry jake, it looks like you put alot of effort into that, but I gotta agree with Suncho... it was hilarious. Next time put in actual strategies like pocket dodging, switching, tri-chording, etc instead of stuff like \"MD hurts\"

Dakatsu · Post by **Dakatsu** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:35 pm

Even better tip:
Don't die.

Although I didn't learn much, nice work on it, that must of took alot of time.

d3jake · Post by **d3jake** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:52 pm

I quote from BlackHole:

BlackHole wrote:course, the POINT was to make them laugh

So, there you have it.

Now, if you guys thuink that there are things that we should cover, please tell me, with a detailed explination so we don't mess anything up...

Blackhole · Post by **Blackhole** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:52 pm

The entire video WAS a joke, and was made mostly to make you laugh, although there are a FEW good tips in there... tips that some of the n00bs could use. Its not ment for experienced players. But it is supposed to be funny.

And the only thing jake did in this was fly around and say things... I did everything else

I would also like to quote Sarge from DBB.com

The first 2 things he says is \"Turn off the headlamp and don't use the flares as it gives away your position\" so everybody just get off that horse.

Next, it's aimed at the new player to get some kind of an idea of what D3 is about. For that, he did a good job.

I liked it.... for noobs, which is what it's aimed at.

1.5 thumbs up for effort including: content, visuals, commentary AND backround music.

Nice job!

I think he sums it all up quite nicely. Number 2 is in the works!

Blackhole · Post by **Blackhole** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:19 pm

Blackhole wrote:Lucky me, the .com DBB doesn't require admin verification, so i went ahead and registered. Now, questions, questions, questions...

Good quality? Why, i'm speechless! Heres how i did it: First, i recorded everything using FRAPS. Since we were using TS at the time, i couldn't record the sound. I got D3jake to record our entire TS convo, compress it, and send to me. Then i took your standerd ol' windows movie maker and put it together. I used the ol' Windows recorder to record my commentary with a mic and edited the commentary with Goldwave to take out the static and adjust volumn, etc. I also used that to remix bits of our TS convo and then to subsequently mix them into the Descent IV: Exploited music. Apologies to the high res version, its music cuts off instead of fading and i don't want to reupload it just to fix that (I'm torturing hunter's bandwidth enough already).

The resolution and framerate aren't all that good either, i'll see if i can't get some more decent footage in our next one but i'm limited to my computer capabilities. I have yet to figure out how to take a demo and then record it later. If i do figure that out, i could film at max res and settings! But i haven't figured that out yet...

Again, i'm surprised that its considered high-quality, i never used any software thats not free. Not bad, eh?

For the next episode, we'll do it in a stock or very well known level for familiarity. We will be looking for pros to demonstrate. The next installment will examine weapons and ships, as sarge suggested, and of course have a massive brawl at the end (I may or may not include my own music).

TS won't be a requirement, although it'd be nice. The commentary is just that, commentary. I'll be doing the "announcing" as usual. Your concerns for familiarity are nonexistant, believe me

This all has to happen tomarrow, because i have 2 days before i leave for vacation. Tomarrow needs to be recording, then i'll need a day of editing. On saturday i leave on vacation and get back the 23rd.

I am GMT -8, and we will be shooting these around 3:00 PM my time, so thats when you need to show up on IRC if you want to help out.

That is from the DBB.net forum.

Blackhole · Post by **Blackhole** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:20 pm

Blackhole wrote:Lucky me, the .com DBB doesn't require admin verification, so i went ahead and registered. Now, questions, questions, questions...

Good quality? Why, i'm speechless! Heres how i did it: First, i recorded everything using FRAPS. Since we were using TS at the time, i couldn't record the sound. I got D3jake to record our entire TS convo, compress it, and send to me. Then i took your standerd ol' windows movie maker and put it together. I used the ol' Windows recorder to record my commentary with a mic and edited the commentary with Goldwave to take out the static and adjust volumn, etc. I also used that to remix bits of our TS convo and then to subsequently mix them into the Descent IV: Exploited music. Apologies to the high res version, its music cuts off instead of fading and i don't want to reupload it just to fix that (I'm torturing hunter's bandwidth enough already).

The resolution and framerate aren't all that good either, i'll see if i can't get some more decent footage in our next one but i'm limited to my computer capabilities. I have yet to figure out how to take a demo and then record it later. If i do figure that out, i could film at max res and settings! But i haven't figured that out yet...

Again, i'm surprised that its considered high-quality, i never used any software thats not free. Not bad, eh?

For the next episode, we'll do it in a stock or very well known level for familiarity. We will be looking for pros to demonstrate. The next installment will examine weapons and ships, as sarge suggested, and of course have a massive brawl at the end (I may or may not include my own music).

TS won't be a requirement, although it'd be nice. The commentary is just that, commentary. I'll be doing the "announcing" as usual. Your concerns for familiarity are nonexistant, believe me

This all has to happen tomarrow, because i have 2 days before i leave for vacation. Tomarrow needs to be recording, then i'll need a day of editing. On saturday i leave on vacation and get back the 23rd.

I am GMT -8, and we will be shooting these around 3:00 PM my time, so thats when you need to show up on IRC if you want to help out.

That is from the DBB.com forum.

Blackhole · Post by **Blackhole** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:21 pm

Blackhole wrote:Lucky me, the .com DBB doesn't require admin verification, so i went ahead and registered. Now, questions, questions, questions...

Good quality? Why, i'm speechless! Heres how i did it: First, i recorded everything using FRAPS. Since we were using TS at the time, i couldn't record the sound. I got D3jake to record our entire TS convo, compress it, and send to me. Then i took your standerd ol' windows movie maker and put it together. I used the ol' Windows recorder to record my commentary with a mic and edited the commentary with Goldwave to take out the static and adjust volumn, etc. I also used that to remix bits of our TS convo and then to subsequently mix them into the Descent IV: Exploited music. Apologies to the high res version, its music cuts off instead of fading and i don't want to reupload it just to fix that (I'm torturing hunter's bandwidth enough already).

The resolution and framerate aren't all that good either, i'll see if i can't get some more decent footage in our next one but i'm limited to my computer capabilities. I have yet to figure out how to take a demo and then record it later. If i do figure that out, i could film at max res and settings! But i haven't figured that out yet...

Again, i'm surprised that its considered high-quality, i never used any software thats not free. Not bad, eh?

For the next episode, we'll do it in a stock or very well known level for familiarity. We will be looking for pros to demonstrate. The next installment will examine weapons and ships, as sarge suggested, and of course have a massive brawl at the end (I may or may not include my own music).

TS won't be a requirement, although it'd be nice. The commentary is just that, commentary. I'll be doing the "announcing" as usual. Your concerns for familiarity are nonexistant, believe me

This all has to happen tomarrow, because i have 2 days before i leave for vacation. Tomarrow needs to be recording, then i'll need a day of editing. On saturday i leave on vacation and get back the 23rd.

I am GMT -8, and we will be shooting these around 3:00 PM my time, so thats when you need to show up on IRC if you want to help out.

That is from the DBB.com forum.

EDIT: O.O this forum doesn't like me. I even had an error trying to post this message! Could someone please delete those repetitive posts?

Kilarin · Post by **Kilarin** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:08 pm

Well, *I* enjoyed it.

Floyd · Post by **Floyd** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:11 pm

i think the video is well done. helps those who have zero skill

though, i'd done the smart "stunt" different. if i knew the other ship was up there at the ceiling hiding behind the protrusion, i'd fire the smart at the floor, instead of sneaking up to him like this.

Blackhole wrote:EDIT: O.O this forum doesn't like me. I even had an error trying to post this message! Could someone please delete those repetitive posts?

you can be the someone yourself. if there are no successing posts after yours, you have an X next to the "edit" button for the post. X is for deletion.
it says "Delete this post" when you hold your mouse cursor over it.

Blackhole · Post by **Blackhole** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:17 pm

There was never an 'X' for deletion... i looked.

BUBBALOU · Post by **BUBBALOU** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:16 pm

I enjoyed the Noob101 by 2 Noobz,

the crashing into everywall was funny

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:51 pm

Here are a few \"tipz for noobz\" that you missed, and might want to incorporate into your next video (if there is one):

1. Move! In general, AKM (\"Always Keep Moving\"). Camping/sniping can be useful at certain points, but it's often more likely to get you killed after your opponent sees you do it once or twice. I think this is the single most important point for most new pilots.

2. Learn to use all the movement you have at your disposal. This includes learning the slide up/down (which usually gets ignored by new players used to groundpounders), learning to fly without autolevel, and eventually how to bi/tri-chord.

3. Anticipate. This means everything from paying attention to what your opponents do, to learning to strategically place your shots for where they are going to be.

4. Play with honor. Typekills, spawnkills, etc. Noobs have to know what they are, and why they are dishonorable.

Now, I know I still have a lot to learn, myself (I usually get pwned by a couple of the guys in here). But those are my best suggestions for new pilot tips.

d3jake · Post by **d3jake** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:24 pm

Thanks Foil, it's up to BH whether we make another since my come REALLY sucks...
All those are real basic, I think it would be better to know how to move first than how to fight, hindsight is 20/20...

BTW, if you got a lot to learn then I have a TON to learn, like how to aimI need $$ for a joystick or two...

Hunter · Post by **Hunter** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:54 am

It's a nice attempt Jake, but you should definitely collect some tips from other players - Much like the D3 manual did - And then include them in a well planned, funny, yet well informed training/music video. Patience is a virtue, and it will take a fair bit longer to create!

Xamindar · Post by **Xamindar** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:42 am

That was an entertaining video. I hope you make more.

Though, wmv is not really a very good format to use.

d3jake · Post by **d3jake** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:04 am

Alright guys, here's the deal. Due to personal reasons any more videos are indefnitely postponed. And will probably not continue untill I get my new comp and dl Fraps, etc. That is of course if nobody else wants to do the recording. For reasons that I am aware of, BH wants nothing to do with this or any other video project.
Untill such time that I build my new comp, I will be collecting information of what *should* be done. And this means probably asking all the REALLY good pleayers they're opinons on such things. I may start a thread or two or just ask people in IRC but input is welcomed!

FunkyStickman · Post by **FunkyStickman** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:11 am

That was pretty funny. I personally would have made it goofier, but that's cause I'm a comedian.

FRAPS looks cool... but I doubt it'll run under wine in Linux. I might have to put my Windows game computer back together to try it.

DizzyRox · Post by **DizzyRox** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:26 am

It was cool

anything to get more people going into Descent or 6DOF i.e..Core Decision ya know
With the community being so aged in experience,
bein a noob at Descent is common place,,every game is/was Like David vs Goliath, very discouraging..
I played D3 online jus abit,,I know those tricks in the video and do well at the SP aspect of the game,,and still got consistantly waxed,,,I felt like the karate kid without Miagee, all heart and no skill ,lol (although ,I totally agree about the Honor of not type killing and spawnkills ,,arggg!!) Im a noob play wise, but not in that aspect.Rather to the savvy of the great players.
Its a whole different pounding than GPs ,
great players I noticed youd rarly even see,(i.e...oh look that poor soul is goin down that hallway,,lets greet them with a smart at the other end,,) whilst your gettin killed, cept smaller maps of course
jus maybe a glimpse of them flyin off into the next hall,,couldnt even gain enough info to learn from in some cases. heh, I remember the anxiety I had every freakin time a demigod entered the game ,,lol uh oh!!! never left a game because of it though.Its all fun.

Sirian · Post by **Sirian** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:59 am

Foil wrote:4. Play with honor. Typekills, spawnkills, etc. Noobs have to know what they are, and why they are dishonorable.

If you think playing the game is dishonorable, then you -are- a n00b.

Hi. My name is not important. I must confess that apparently I am a "dishonorable" player. If it's in a ship, I shoot it. Period.

Want to chat like a teenybopper girl on the cell with her GFs? Do it in chat, where I can't shoot you.

Also, those strange things on your ship when you spawn are called lasers and missiles. These are (in case you hadn't noticed) weaponry.

Learn to use them. More playing, less whining and posturing. That's how I see it.

It's just a game, after all.

* Waves at everybody who's been around long enough to remember me. *

- Sirian

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:37 pm

Spawnkill: when you take out your opponent using only your lasers and concs and the element of surprise.

(If you also have 2 seconds of invuln, you're at an insane advantage. Play real Descent, where you're vulnerable as soon as you spawn.)

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:09 pm

Anything Sirian says is true about descent, end of story.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:35 pm

Sirian's exactly right. If you're shot at when you spawn, move and shoot back. If you put up that keyboard logo, you should fully expect to be killed. I usually don't target people doing so, but that's my own personal choice; you'll never see me complaining if someone does them to me. It's just part of the game.

Kilarin · Post by **Kilarin** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:14 pm

I have a double standard when it comes to spawn killing.

If I NOTICE that someone has just spawned (and isn't shooting), I don't shoot. It offends some folks, so why not err on the side of honor and give them some time to get their Bearings.

However, *I* spawn shooting and fully expect to be blown away by anyone who sees me. That two seconds of invulnerability is my best two seconds in the entire game. I usually die in second three though.

Zero! · Post by **Zero!** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:19 pm

i cuss someone out for 2 hours if they spawn kill me...

d3jake · Post by **d3jake** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:54 pm

I have to agree with Kilarin, that's how I do it, well.. the first part.
I won't shoot at them, unless they're firing at me, then their @$$ is grass...
When I spawn I hope that the person who ran across me will either not care, or be nice enough to let me alone for a short bit...

LEON · Post by **LEON** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:49 pm

You can typ all day long about \"you should expect kettin' killed when you spawn or type\", and that is true, don't get me wrong.
BUT!!......it's still not honorable to kill a guy that can't defend himself. What's so great about killin' a typer? It's a question about honor, not rules.

On another hand, it's not honorable to complain either, just spawn and keep on flyin'.

What's funny though, is peeps typkillin and spawnkillin cus this is anarchy, but if you missileboating or fly pheenix it's all of a sudden not anarchy anymore. LOL!

Leon

Zero! · Post by **Zero!** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:18 am

its a video game, there is no honor unless u have 50,000k on the line.

even then u can still type and spawn kill ;p

Sirian · Post by **Sirian** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:02 am

Kilarin wrote:If I NOTICE that someone has just spawned (and isn't shooting), I don't shoot. It offends some folks, so why not err on the side of honor and give them some time to get their Bearings.

Fair question. So here's my answers.

1. If a player was always meant to have a lot of weaponry, the game would spawn you with more items. Learn to play the game as it was created, not the one inside your head that you wish it would be.

2. Some levels have so much weaponry around, it doesn't even matter. Players can always grab something stronger within seconds. That's cool. Other levels have sparse weaponry, the point being to make it more difficult to re-arm, to offer more strategic reward to preventing others from powering up. Playing king of the hill in such a level requires two skill sets: being able to arm yourself in the face of unfavorable odds, and being able to survive for longer when you're not just A target but THE target, the one others have to take out to gain an advantaged position for themselves. ... Newbz who get caught up in this "honor" nonsense will never elevate their game to include either of these skill sets.

3. Ladder matches are not formalized duels, march ten paces, turn and shoot, etc. Ladder matches are real fights, no holds barred, all options on the table. Don't be telling me that this is not an honorable way to play the game. You know not of what you speak. To even be allowed to set foot in such an arena is an honor unto itself, that you have earned the right to compete against the best as one of their peers. You have to cope with every challenge, though. EVERY time you die, you face a skilled killer whose mission is to kill you again before you can re-arm. Your spew (D1/D2) will be guarded. Don't let all the weaponry on the entire level gather in one location, or you're in trouble (unless you are the guarder -- but then there's the danger of the tables being turned on you!) The player who emerges victorious will be the one who had the most complete package of skills and/or the best execution of those skills on any given day.

4. If you get stuck on a mindset that puts large parts of the game off limits, tucked behind a wall of "honor", you'll never elevate your complete game high enough to be considered among the best.

5. It's too bad D3 failed to include a true Peer to Peer networking option. Without it, 1v1 play died out, and with it, the heart of the old community, leaving behind only a shell of what once was.

- Sirian

Kilarin · Post by **Kilarin** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:51 am

Sirian wrote:If you get stuck on a mindset that puts large parts of the game off limits, tucked behind a wall of "honor", you'll never elevate your complete game high enough to be considered among the best.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on the importance of honor.

I'm with you, in that there I don't think people should complain about being typekilled or spawnkilled. When someone apologies for spawnkilling me, I take a moment and explain that I come out shooting, I expect to be shot, so they will know that they are NOT offending me.

BUT, I also would FAR rather play the game with someone who is into it more for the "fun" than for the score. I have more fun playing with pilots who have a sense of "honor". If I see someone deliberately avoid a typekill or spawnkill , I think, "Ah! There is someone who cares more about everyone having fun than they do about getting a high score", and it makes me enjoy the game more.

A sense of "honor" is a VERY good thing for a newbie to learn in my opinion. But "honor" in playing d3 is about a lot more than just spawnkilling and typekilling.

Honor is about pilots who change sides in a CTF game to make the teams more even. Honor is ALSO about people not whining because their side is loosing, the honorable player can still have fun even when they are getting creamed. Honor means not screaming "Cheat!" every time someone outplays you. Honor means that when you ARE typekilled, you assume it was an accident and don't gripe. Honor means that, once you figure out that the ship sitting in the corner has no pilot at the helm, you don't blow it away just to up your score. Honor also means that when the absent pilot gets BACK from answering the phone/call of nature/front door or whatever they were doing, they don't take ADVANTAGE of the fact folks have been ignoring them to snipe at someone. They fly around for a few seconds so that everyone can SEE they are back and a fair target. Honor means that when you meet a pilot who is better than you, instead of whining and leaving the game to protect your score, you take it as a learning opportunity. Honor means occasionally taking time to give newbies a few notes on how to play better. Honor means not getting upset because some of the members of your team are newbies and aren't helping you win very much.

Honor means all kinds of things, but they all center around "Play nice." This doesn't mean you don't shoot straight and hard, not at all, but it does mean that you put forth a reasonable effort to make the game fair and fun for everyone.

P.S. And just to clarify, I am NOT saying you are not an "honorable" player Sirian. I am just debating the value of teaching newbies to play with "honor.

Sirian · Post by **Sirian** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:30 am

Kilarin wrote:I'm with you, in that there I don't think people should complain about being typekilled or spawnkilled.

I could be mistaken, but I don't see that you're with me at all. Voicing a complaint vs holding a silent grudge makes no difference. Slapping the label "dishonorable" on to somebody in your mind is little different than saying it to their face. Both carry the same edge of conflict and resentment.

Why should any player expect another to try to evaluate the "helplessness" of any target before pulling the trigger? People are there to relax and enjoy a game, not navigate their way through some kind of morass of social netiquette. Much simpler is a rule that says, "If you're in the game, you're a fair target by definition." That is an objective standard, one that is not arguable and over which there will be no disputes -- except from newbies who don't appreciate the elegance of simplicity. Simpler is usually better. Codes of honor only complicate matters unnecessarily.

- Sirian

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:43 am

Sirian wrote:
Foil wrote:4. Play with honor. Typekills, spawnkills, etc. Noobs have to know what they are, and why they are dishonorable.
If you think playing the game is dishonorable, then you -are- a n00b.
...

While I sometimes feel like a n00b against some of the players here, I hold my own, and players who know me know I don't complain about type/spawn-kills.

What I was referring to is a general guideline for new players who not only want to learn to play well, but who want to build comraderie with other pilots, especially the experienced veterans they're learning from.

The way I see it, there is a big spectrum of pilot types regarding this issue:

- On one extreme, there are the "uber-social players". These are the pilots who play occasionally, but spend much of their time F8 chatting, using taunts, etc. They focus more on trying to make friends (or enemies, by trying to annoy people) than actually playing the game. These are some of the most entertaining players out there, but they typically lag far behind in skill and get frustrated easily, so are very infrequently seen in veteran-filled games.

- On the other extreme, there are the "uber-performance players". These are the pilots who play often, constantly trying to improve their skills, focusing on nothing other than winning by as significant a margin as they can. These players rarely interact while in game, and make no distinction between active and inactive players who get in their way. They tend to be some of the best players in a given game, but are generally loners, often under aliases.

(Despite the fact I've been playing multiplayer less than 18 months, I can think of at least five players on each extreme, just off the top of my head.)

Personally, I consider myself to be somewhere in the middle of the spectrum. I not only play D3 to win, I play in a social setting, among people I consider friends. So, I choose to sacrifice an occasional no-effort kill (which wouldn't significantly pad my stats or even give me any good practice), and I consider it completely worth it.

Thus, in most cases, I'll avoid type/spawn-killing, if I can help it. Of course there are always exceptions:
- Players caught in crossfire between me and an opponent. I'm not going to adjust my fighting just to avoid someone with their keyboard up.
- When I'm running the flag in CTF (I'm not gonna just pass by and leave a defender behind me), or when an opponent has the flag and their keyboard up.
- Serious match games (i.e. D3TL matches).
- Etc.

But back to the subject, as I stated, new players do need to know what type-kills and spawn-kills are, and how they are perceived by the D3 community.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:58 am

Foil wrote:
Sirian wrote:
Foil wrote:4. Play with honor. Typekills, spawnkills, etc. Noobs have to know what they are, and why they are dishonorable.
If you think playing the game is dishonorable, then you -are- a n00b. 8)
...
as I stated, new players do need to know what type-kills and spawn-kills are, and how they are perceived by the D3 community.

... but you said they're "dishonorable". That's not a community-wide perception.

If you want n00bs to know how they're perceived by the D3 community, you have to teach them basically what's been discussed in this thread: if you've got lasers, concs, 100 shields, and 2 seconds of invuln, you have no room to complain because the other guy had bigger guns. If you're typing, you should expect to get shot at. Sometimes your friends might choose to go easy on you if they watched you spawn or if they see you're typing, but don't expect everyone to, and don't whine or call them "dishonorable" (even in your own mind) when it happens.

If you choose to go easy on your friends, that's between you and your friends. Don't go calling the rest of us "jerks" or "dishonorable" because we treat you like equals who are fully capable of killing us from a fresh spawn or escaping out of typing your message and shooting us.

there are the "uber-performance players". These are the pilots who play often, constantly trying to improve their skills, focusing on nothing other than winning by as significant a margin as they can.... They tend to be some of the best players in a given game, but are generally loners, often under aliases.

I don't think I've ever met a player like this. That certainly doesn't describe the top players I know.

I sometimes choose to sacrifice easy (type) kills because I prefer my kills to involve some actual combat, but I only avoid spawnkilling in very special circumstances. (I also regularly push pilotless ships from my OWN team out of the protected spawn points in CTF with the hope that someone will kill them so they won't keep blocking my path, and if I see a pilotless ship on the other side I'll take it out as a courtesy to everyone who might need to fly past it.)

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:37 pm

What foil described was true in D1 and D2 on Kali. That all went out the window with D3. That's why the keyboard was implimented in D3. there was such an outcry by the community at the time about type killing that they threw that in. It was all over the boards on the Outrage site during developement.

Dishonorable was dropping Smart mines in spawn points in D2.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:41 pm

Lothar wrote:
Foil wrote:
Sirian wrote:
Foil wrote:4. Play with honor. Typekills, spawnkills, etc. Noobs have to know what they are, and why they are dishonorable.
If you think playing the game is dishonorable, then you -are- a n00b.
...
as I stated, new players do need to know what type-kills and spawn-kills are, and how they are perceived by the D3 community.
... but you said they're "dishonorable". That's not a community-wide perception.

You're right. I should have said something more like, "Noobs have to know what they are, and how they are often perceived."

That said, it seems clear from this thread alone that there is no community-wide consensus on the matter.

Lothar wrote:If you want n00bs to know how they're perceived by the D3 community, you have to teach them basically what's been discussed in this thread: if you've got lasers, concs, 100 shields, and 2 seconds of invuln, you have no room to complain because the other guy had bigger guns. If you're typing, you should expect to get shot at.

Harsh, but true, depending on who is playing.

Note that I'm not advocating that anyone complain when it happens to them; complaining does no one any good, and can just get annoying to others in the game. I'm simply talking about advising n00bs (who don't know any different) of how it is often perceived among those players who value comraderie as much as their stats.

Lothar wrote:...don't whine or call them "dishonorable" (even in your own mind) when it happens.
...Don't go calling the rest of us "jerks" or "dishonorable" because we treat you like equals...

I don't. I just make a mental note of it, and adjust accordingly.

Duper wrote:Dishonorable was dropping Smart mines in spawn points in D2.

I should have clarified, when I referred to spawn-kills, I wasn't referring to combat just after spawning (the 2 second invul certainly helps even up the odds, and I've gotten my share of blue-laser kills, especially defending CTF flag runs). I was referring to tactics that specifically target spawn points, like the old D2 tactic Duper mentioned.

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:30 pm

players like sirian, birdseye, ender, kufyit and many more older players were considered among the best because they knew how to play the game, not water it down to honor or things like that.

it is nice that some try to play with honor if you believe that is raising the level of \"fun\" for you and or everyone else, however i have more fun making it more dificult for you to play in the hopes you will develop a genuine set of skills you can use.

that is how you play the game, it has nothing to do with honor, it is a game and you can either play to win, or you can fly around and get killed every 5 seconds, your choice but dont bash a skilled player or his mindset because you do not agree with it.

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:56 pm

Every time I \"play with honor\" I get anally raped.

Guy typing, I pass him up and go on my way... he drops the KB and inserts a nice fat mega rectally.

Guy respawns, I drive on by, he turns and gives me a blue laser and conc enema.

IMO, \"Playing Honorably\" is all well and good, but in the end, it seems to be \"do as I say, not as I do\". In other words, I'm expected to behave with \"honor\", while YOU are not. Mighty convenient, I say. Another thing that happens all too often is that people use \"honor\" as an excuse to whine, when their real problem is that they're losing.

Why don't we forget about all this \"honor\" crap and play the game... You know... \"Anarchy\". No rules. Kill or be killed. You have 2 seconds of invulnerablity. USE IT. Get a cheap kill. Type when you're dead. Stop whining and start winning.

Kilarin · Post by **Kilarin** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:03 pm

Sirian wrote:Voicing a complaint vs holding a silent grudge makes no difference. Slapping the label "dishonorable" on to somebody in your mind is little different than saying it to their face. Both carry the same edge of conflict and resentment.

Sorry, I obviously did not make myself clear. Note that I didn't use the word "dishonorable". I not only don't complain, I don't CARE if someone typekills me. If I stop to type, someone may blast me away. They may do it on purpose, they may do it by accident, either way, I chose to take that risk when I stopped to type. And, as I said, I spawn shooting. I EXPECT to be shot.

I do not find fault with anyone who chooses to up their numbers by typekilling. But I think those who deliberately avoid it in order to avoid offending others are admirable and increase the fun/friendliness of the game.

In my opinion (and it is nothing MORE than my opinion) good D3 etiquette (probably a MUCH better term than honor) involves avoiding tactics that many perceive as "unfair". So I don't Typekill (on purpose anyway). And another important part of D3 etiquette is to not get upset when people use those same tactics on you. Which is why I don't mind if someone does typekill me.

I think a very important point here is that almost EVERYONE I see playing in multiplayer plays with incredible patience and etiquette. It is the rare player who comes in and spoils a "friendly" game. And when someone does spoil a game, its usually not by typekilling, its by whining. Whining is generally much worse than typekilling.

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:48 pm

I'm with you players that have honor.

I play to win and to have fun but playing with honor is my top priority. I don't hang around the spawn area with guns blazing trying to up my score. If I encounter a player much weaker than me, I won't gain 15 quick points by killing him over and over but I make sure they have fun with me. I will never intentionally target a typer. When I enter a CTF game I change to the losing team because its more fun trying to battle your way to the top than already being there.

I'm a noob and proud.

Bee