Killings

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:33 pm

A month before I graduated from High School, we were given a tour of the local fire and police station then were shown a horrible movie of a prom party that went bad. I won't get into that part because it was gruesome. Anyway, when we first entered the building through double doors we found ourselves in what looked like a medium sized atrium or foyer shaped like a pentagon. It contained several doors and a large glass receptionist window in the front wall where a policewomen and all her consoles was seated behind it.

After a few minutes there was a startling buzz causing some of us to jump and one of the doors opened. A policeman came out, introduced himself, and began explaining how the building was constructed and how all the doors in this room had no windows, handles, or doorknobs. He went on to say that when someone enters the station the main door locks behind them and you can't leave or go anywhere unless the dispatcher pushes a button on her console. You were trapped in that room with a phone, rest room, and water fountain. I thought that was pretty cool.

Today, I wonder what it would be like if all schools had that same kind of system. In our school, for example, we already had metal detectors and a security guard. You had to be a parent, guardian, or family member to come in but if the guard was incapacitated that person could come all the way in. I wonder if this would help stop lunatics from entering a school, going to each of the classrooms, and shooting kids. I know police stations do that to keep people from escaping or attemping to free a person but it would work just as well turned around.

With this system installed a person entering the school, wouldn't be able to get past the front office. Something like this has to be done because I see a lot more school shootings coming like the Amish school just today. A lot more. Maybe you people with kids should go to town meetings and demand something like that.

Bettina

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:50 pm

Orwell.

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:22 pm

Bet you are confusing Big Brother with good parenting skills. You are substituting familial love with the proverbial Big Stick.

There's a reason there are so many gun murders in the USA: you've been brainwashed until everyone has THE FEAR. See Bowling For Columbine.

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:22 pm

I must be dense. I don't see how parental skills is going to protect a degenerate from shooting kids in school.....

Oh well.... I tried.

Bee

ccb056 · Post by **ccb056** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:49 pm

I felt 110% safe going to high school and we didnt have armed guards, metal detectors, lockdown, etc. Keep in mind I went to school in downtown New Orleans where there were at least two new murders every night to listen to on the news, sometimes more.

Mobius is partly right, good parenting will elliminate most problems; however, schools should have more leeway on who they accept and who they turn away. Not everyone deserves an education. The people who do deserve an education are the ones who want it, and have the mental capacity of obtaining it. Certain schools are better at finding those people than others.

TIGERassault · Post by **TIGERassault** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:14 pm

Bettina wrote:Today, I wonder what it would be like if all schools had that same kind of system. In our school, for example, we already had metal detectors and a security guard. You had to be a parent, guardian, or family member to come in but if the guard was incapacitated that person could come all the way in. I wonder if this would help stop lunatics from entering a school, going to each of the classrooms, and shooting kids. I know police stations do that to keep people from escaping or attemping to free a person but it would work just as well turned around.

With this system installed a person entering the school, wouldn't be able to get past the front office. Something like this has to be done because I see a lot more school shootings coming like the Amish school just today. A lot more. Maybe you people with kids should go to town meetings and demand something like that.

...
Metal detector and security guard..?
Ahahah. Ah, you wacky Americans...

Mobius wrote:There's a reason there are so many gun murders in the USA: you've been brainwashed until everyone has THE FEAR. See Bowling For Columbine.

X2
Speaking of which, I was shocked that nearly all Americans would actually lock their doors when they're inside.
Heck, I only lock my doors when I'm going out for a few hours. And I never lock my shed doors.

Flatlander · Post by **Flatlander** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:47 pm

Mobius wrote: There's a reason there are so many gun murders in the USA: you've been brainwashed until everyone has THE FEAR. See Bowling For Columbine.

Ah ha ha ha ha. Bowling for Columbine is b*llsh*t.

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:28 pm

I wasn't just talking about kids. Kids in school are going to have to know who among them could go balistic and report them and take back their schools but how do you stop a 40 year old man who comes in shooting. Where does parenting come in there.

Bee

ccb056 · Post by **ccb056** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:41 pm

I didnt want to be treated like a prisoner in a jail when I went to high school, and I doubt many students now want to either.

Random people can go into any public building and start shooting, should we run every building like a jail. No

TIGERassault · Post by **TIGERassault** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:56 pm

ccb056 wrote:I didnt want to be treated like a prisoner in a jail when I went to high school, and I doubt many students now want to either.

Random people can go into any public building and start shooting, should we run every building like a jail. No

While I was about to point out that this would just be a sudden emergency only, I had forgotten that sections would be separated by doors wouch would be quite an inconvenience.

Oh, and who would keep watch over who enters each room?

ccb056 · Post by **ccb056** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:04 pm

I spent one year in government high school, I was surprised not only how crappy the education was; but also how they monitored the students, in terms of hall passes, lunch hour lockdowns, no backpacks, etc, etc. It was a complete hell.

Locking down schools nationwide would not only put a hindrance on day to day activities of both students and faculty; but it would be a completely ineffective solution to the problem.

Dakatsu · Post by **Dakatsu** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:10 pm

I've always found it funny that although they cant stop school shootings, they seem to be able to stop me & my girlfriend from holding hands, or making sure all ladies have sleeves on their shirts, or that your legs are not in the aisle on the bus when your sitting in the back seat, or making sure that if you dye your hair green for $40 for halloween at the request of your best friends, that they make you wash it out for being a distraction! And please tell me how giving your girlfriend flowers and candy and a romantic poem is \"a safety hazard to the classroom\"...

Me & my friends always refer to the BPMS (Bay Point Middle School) staff as The Third Reich, how they seem to dictate everything I can do but still allow me to get the crap beaten out of me...

Just was in the mood to rant...

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:03 pm

TIGERassault wrote:Oh, and who would keep watch over who enters each room?

No one watches the rooms. Once students go past the double doors they can go anywhere they need to go. Nothing would be different.

Its the double doors that would stop an adult shooter. You can enter the front entrance, talk to the person in the office, etc etc, but you can't get past those doors without the office letting you. So, unless that person is known, he nvr gets in.

I find it hard to believe that people consider it a prison environment. I don't consider that a valid argument vs being safe and in fact I would feel safer knowing a stranger isn't going to barge in.

Bettina

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:37 pm

ccb056 wrote:Random people can go into any public building and start shooting,

I'm not necessarily agreeing with Bettina, but schools are different than other public buildings. As long as there are truancy laws, you can't just decide to not go to school if you felt it was unsafe, and (neglecting private schools) as long as the government decides which school you go to, you can't decide to go to a safer one either. With other public buildings, you can decide if to go, when, and to which one, but with schools you're afforded no such rights, so the schools had better damn well be safe.

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:43 pm

I started High School in 1977, and this School was noted as THE Premiere Head-banger, Gear-head, and Druggy school. Sports and Scholastic achievments were at historicaly epic lows.

I went there because the Industrial Arts department was the best in Town bar none. I maxed out on all the Sciences and shop courses as much as I could.

They introduced police dogs, private investigators, snitches, regular and suprise sweeps for drugs, metal detectors, and finally an Police Office for 2 full time permanent on duty Police Officers,(they were literally swamped with work). Nothing really seemed to stop the drugs, weapons, violence, or anything else... sure it impeded it, but they just found ways around the measures and went about their business anyway.

I think easy access to guns is definately part of the equation.

ccb056 · Post by **ccb056** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:01 pm

A month before I graduated from High School, we were given a tour of the local fire and police station then were shown a horrible movie of a prom party that went bad. I won't get into that part because it was gruesome. Anyway, when we first entered the building through double doors we found ourselves in what looked like a medium sized atrium or foyer shaped like a pentagon. It contained several doors and a large glass receptionist window in the front wall where a policewomen and all her consoles was seated behind it.

Hrmm, that sounds like a prison to me, in fact, it is a jail. And you don't see it as a prison, interesting....

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:51 pm

Mobius wrote:....See Bowling For Columbine.

Only if you want to be mislead should you see this movie. It is not a source of objective or scientific study/representation of america. granted there are some bits that are true but like most good lies you have to mix the truth in to be able to fool more than a few observers...

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:13 pm

ccb056 wrote:
A month before I graduated from High School, we were given a tour of the local fire and police station then were shown a horrible movie of a prom party that went bad. I won't get into that part because it was gruesome. Anyway, when we first entered the building through double doors we found ourselves in what looked like a medium sized atrium or foyer shaped like a pentagon. It contained several doors and a large glass receptionist window in the front wall where a policewomen and all her consoles was seated behind it.
Hrmm, that sounds like a prison to me, in fact, it is a jail. And you don't see it as a prison, interesting....

You read my post but you don't understand where I'm coming from... That is whats interesting.

Bee

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:19 pm

Jeff250 wrote:
ccb056 wrote:Random people can go into any public building and start shooting,
I'm not necessarily agreeing with Bettina, but schools are different than other public buildings. As long as there are truancy laws, you can't just decide to not go to school if you felt it was unsafe, and (neglecting private schools) as long as the government decides which school you go to, you can't decide to go to a safer one either. With other public buildings, you can decide if to go, when, and to which one, but with schools you're afforded no such rights, so the schools had better damn well be safe.

Thank you. Safe is exactly what needs to be done. Kids in school shouldn't be murdered because a few people thought it would be too "prison like".

Bee

roid · Post by **roid** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:35 pm

how do the kids get out?

Flatlander · Post by **Flatlander** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:07 am

roid wrote:how do the kids get out?

...if there's a fire?

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:32 am

They leave school using the front doors like they always have and in case of fire, the fire doors open outward like they always have.

Bee

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:53 am

Canuck wrote:I think easy access to guns is definately part of the equation.

Access to guns has always been easy. Years ago, kids would bring their guns to school, put them up on the gun rack, go to class, leave, and get their guns on the way out.

Easy access to stupidity is the problem. That and hte more you oppress kids, the worse they will lash out. Kids today are under a hundred thumbs, and you can't contain them like that.

roid · Post by **roid** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:17 am

Bet51987 wrote:They leave school using the front doors like they always have and in case of fire, the fire doors open outward like they always have.

Bee

what if the fire is inbetween you and the exit.
remember it's the only exit.

Just so i've got this correct - this system is basically an airlock right? Where both doors can't be opened at the same time, thereby forcing everything traveling in and outof the complex to stop as it is subjected to a momentary limbo state where BOTH doors are closed at once. Which is a handy time to inspect whatever is trapped inside and decide whether you want to let it in, let it back out, or keep it in there until the Schutzstaffel arrive... oh i mean the police (lol silly me).

i just want to make sure i've got the concept right. coz it's really not that amazing, you should have been exposed to the airlock concept a lot. they build self-resetting mousetraps based on it too - very effective.

ccb056 · Post by **ccb056** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:42 am

You know, I think I remember an incident where someone drove their car into a school, killing a few kids in a classroom. That isnt safe at all. I think we should erect 12 ft concrete walls around schools, dig a moat, maybe add a few landmines. And don't forget the barbed wire. All this to increase the safety of the children. Remember, it's for the children.

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:17 am

roid wrote:Just so i've got this correct - this system is basically an airlock right? Where both doors can't be opened at the same time, thereby forcing everything traveling in and outof the complex to stop as it is subjected to a momentary limbo state where BOTH doors are closed at once. Which is a handy time to inspect whatever is trapped inside and decide whether you want to let it in, let it back out, or keep it in there until the Schutzstaffel arrive... oh i mean the police (lol silly me).

Yes, thats basically what it is. The person can come in through the first set of doors, talk to the receptionist at the window, but can't go through the second set. If he seems dangerous, he can be trapped in the "foyer" until police come.

I'm just saying that something needs to be done because we can't leave schools open to the public anymore.

Bee

ccb056 · Post by **ccb056** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:25 am

What you are proposing will not solve the problem. There is nothing preventing anyone from staying outside the school and taking pot shots at the kids when they are either at recess or leaving school. Nothing is preventing anyone from breaking a window and climbing into a classroom. Nothing is preventing anyone from driving their car through a wall. Nothing is preventing anyone from building a bomb and blowing up a wall. Need I go on?

All you are doing is locking the kids inside a building run by incompetent government employees and instilling fear in them by forcing them to walk through metal detectors and pass through a prison style decontamination room. Are you going to do body cavity searches to make sure none of the students bring nonmetal weapons? What about banning all liquids and foods from being brought into the school because bombs could be made from simple chemicals? Or will you just subject everyone with a bag lunch to be sniffed by dogs and ransacked before being able to enter the building?

Schoolhouses are not the only place with a high density of children. What about parks and playgrounds? Will you build walls up around them also? Subject children to go through metal detectors? Im sure more violence is done to children at a park/playground than at a school. Think of all the sickos there molesting kids.

Flabby Chick · Post by **Flabby Chick** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:29 am

Pally could probably shed a little professional light upon this awful subject. The way i see it is the way Mobius sees it. Parenting skills.

Parents that phuck up children turn their children into phuck-ups, repeat, rinse ect ect.

Apart from that, this latest ★■◆● with the Amish made me shed tears i didn't know i had, the description of the young kids being lined up and executed......I don't know what to tell you. Was he phucked up as a kid? Enviroment? Depression? Would drugs or drink make you systematically bind the hands of a young girl and shoot her in the head. Somthings wrong.

What do you think is wrong?
Weapon availability?
Parenting values?
.....ha! that's easy....must be somthing bigger no?

The first person to mention God gets a kick in the arse from Yours truely. Drak' what do you think babes??

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:33 am

Oppression, lack of intelligence, overpopulation, marginalization, sex/violence on TV, disrespect, and the 60's.

Bad combo.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:54 am

what I dont get about this Amish shooting is that this gunman apparently had something happen in his life 20 years ago that made him do this he was only 32. I cannot understand what could have happened when you were 12 years old that would make you goto these extremes line up these young children bound and gaged and shoot them execution style

I agree that Correct parenting would solve alot of these problems. teaching your children right from wrong, giving them decent core values, and making them responsible for thier actions would be a good place to start. but unfortunatelly there are some people that are just screwed up in the head and they do things that are beyond belief.
Mark Twain once said that fiction is easier to believe than truth, because fiction needs to make sence to be accepted.
what happened in Pennsylvania yesterday makes no sense to me

Topher · Post by **Topher** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:56 am

TIGERassault wrote:
Mobius wrote:There's a reason there are so many gun murders in the USA: you've been brainwashed until everyone has THE FEAR. See Bowling For Columbine.
X2
Speaking of which, I was shocked that nearly all Americans would actually lock their doors when they're inside.
Heck, I only lock my doors when I'm going out for a few hours. And I never lock my shed doors.

link

ccb056 · Post by **ccb056** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:14 pm

Parenting can account for many problems, but no matter how much good parenting someone gets, it won't do anything if there is a serious chemical imbalance in their head.

Ask any chemist or doctor, the human body is one big chemical reactor. Throw in a couple of enzymes with the wrong ratios and something is going to get screwey.

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:11 pm

ccb056 wrote:What you are proposing will not solve the problem. There is nothing preventing anyone from staying outside the school and taking pot shots at the kids when they are either at recess or leaving school. Nothing is preventing anyone from breaking a window and climbing into a classroom. Nothing is preventing anyone from driving their car through a wall. Nothing is preventing anyone from building a bomb and blowing up a wall. Need I go on?

All you are doing is locking the kids inside a building run by incompetent government employees and instilling fear in them by forcing them to walk through metal detectors and pass through a prison style decontamination room. Are you going to do body cavity searches to make sure none of the students bring nonmetal weapons? What about banning all liquids and foods from being brought into the school because bombs could be made from simple chemicals? Or will you just subject everyone with a bag lunch to be sniffed by dogs and ransacked before being able to enter the building?

Schoolhouses are not the only place with a high density of children. What about parks and playgrounds? Will you build walls up around them also? Subject children to go through metal detectors? Im sure more violence is done to children at a park/playground than at a school. Think of all the sickos there molesting kids.

Need you go on? I hope not because so far all I've seen you do is throw sticks and complain about someone else's ideas while producing nothing yourself. This is always the easy way out blaming society, tv, rock groups, and parents then stand there and hope someone else does something because doing this doesn't require any thought. No offense but your striking a nerve.

Sure, when they come outside they can be picked off by a shooter in the woods but a closed school will stop the mass murder thats done when kids are grouped together in a class.

I may not have the right answer but I at least have one that would work and could be implemented quickly.

Bettina

ccb056 · Post by **ccb056** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:04 pm

Need you go on? I hope not because so far all I've seen you do is throw sticks and complain about someone else's ideas while producing nothing yourself. This is always the easy way out blaming society, tv, rock groups, and parents then stand there and hope someone else does something because doing this doesn't require any thought. No offense but your striking a nerve.

I havent \"complained\" about your ideas, nor have I \"thrown sticks\". All I've done is say that you're wrong and provided examples to support that notion. I haven't blamed \"society, tv, rock groups\", as to why your brought that up, I dont know.

I am not saying nor hoping someone else does something about the problem. The \"problem\" just wont be solved by immplementing your solution.

Sure, when they come outside they can be picked off by a shooter in the woods but a closed school will stop the mass murder thats done when kids are grouped together in a class.

You need to tune into reality, there is no \"mass murder\" going on here. If you want to see \"mass murder\" go read a history book (WW2).

I may not have the right answer but I at least have one that would work and could be implemented quickly.

If you had the right answer, it would work. By your own admission, you have doubt about your answer, but not doubts about the result. That logic befuddles me.

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:26 pm

ccb056 wrote: I havent "complained" about your ideas, nor have I "thrown sticks". All I've done is say that you're wrong and provided examples to support that notion. I haven't blamed "society, tv, rock groups", as to why your brought that up, I dont know.

I am not saying nor hoping someone else does something about the problem. The "problem" just wont be solved by immplementing your solution.

These are your examples...
1. I don't want to be treated like a prisoner
2. Should we run every building like a jail
3. Locking down schools would not work.
4. It sounds like jail. interesting.
5. They can break a window.
6. Kids can be shot outside school.
7. They can drive a car through the door.
8. They can build a bomb.
9. There being forced to use metal detectors.

The other posts were just rants.... and I won't comment on the sarcasm about building a moat.

ccb056 wrote: You need to tune into reality, there is no "mass murder" going on here. If you want to see "mass murder" go read a history book (WW2).

The last two school shootings were "mass murders" as defined by Wiki. You can check it out yourself if you have doubts.

The USA Bureau of Justice Statistics defines a mass murder as "[involving] the murder of four or more victims at one location, within one event."

ccb056 wrote: If you had the right answer, it would work. By your own admission, you have doubt about your answer, but not doubts about the result. That logic befuddles me.

I have the right answer unless a better answer comes along. I haven't found one yet in this thread.

Look.... I'm not picking on you. I just get emotional over how easy it is for a 40 year old man to walk into a school and snuff out the lives of a bunch of kids who have no protection whatsoever. They have no place to run.

This is the only example I know. If you have a better way to stop it then say so but criticizing someone elses is not the way to go.

Again, I'm not singleing you out. I'm just disgusted.

Bettina

ccb056 · Post by **ccb056** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:35 pm

These are your examples...
1. I don't want to be treated like a prisoner
2. Should we run every building like a jail
3. Locking down schools would not work.
4. It sounds like jail. interesting.
5. They can break a window.
6. Kids can be shot outside school.
7. They can drive a car through the door.
8. They can build a bomb.
9. There being forced to use metal detectors.

ROFL, those aren't examples, those are reasons your idea won't work.

The USA Bureau of Justice Statistics defines a mass murder as \"[involving] the murder of four or more victims at one location, within one event.\"

I couldn't find that anywhere on the USA Bureau of Justice Statistics' website.

I have the right answer unless a better answer comes along. I haven't found one yet in this thread.

Simply because your \"solution\" exists doesnt mean it will work.

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:49 pm

Flabby Chick wrote:Apart from that, this latest ***** with the Amish made me shed tears i didn't know i had, the description of the young kids being lined up and executed......I don't know what to tell you.

I know EXACTLY what you mean FC. I kept seeing my little one in that situation and I couldn't handle it. I just can't get my brain wrapped around this one.

Dakatsu · Post by **Dakatsu** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:58 pm

Bet51987 wrote:I just get emotional over how easy it is for a 40 year old man to walk into a school and snuff out the lives of a bunch of kids who have no protection whatsoever.

Give the kids shotguns, is that protection for you?

How about this solution, using my school as an example. Our school has security cameras everywhere, if there is a report of a guy on campus, you get the SRO (preferably every school would have about 3 SROs) out. If he gets attacked, the other two can gun him down. It makes it feel less prisionish, but still can fight back an unarmed official.

I also think the moat idea was cool, make the school look like a castle!

ccb056 · Post by **ccb056** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:20 pm

yeah, armed security personnel and security cameras make a school feel less prisonish....

Dakatsu · Post by **Dakatsu** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:42 pm

ccb056 wrote:yeah, armed security personnel and security cameras make a school feel less prisonish....

We already have armed security personell, and we already have security cameras, all we need is two more armed security personell. We don't need the chain fence or the barb wire at our school though. It is basically behind the scenes, the police will deal with the shooter if he comes around.

P.S: We have a huge ass school, if that makes three guys seem like a little less.