The Golden Compass

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:16 pm

I don't owe anything of the sort to myself. Multiple source (non-affiliated new agencies) paint a similar picture. Besides, I'm not really that interested in it; nor am I the DeVinci code.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:08 am

"Story from an atheist, DON'T WATCH IT" -- why ? Cristians fear to lose their faith ? Or fearing to have their children lose fait ? If it's that easy to "tempt" a christian something is rotten in that religion.

Foil wrote:"I'm trying to undermine the basis of Christian belief." - Philip Pullman, author (link)

He makes this very, very clear in a number of quotes and in the theme of the book and film.

So what ? A lot of christian try to undermine my beliefs as well. How is that different ?

"God made me an atheist. Who are you to question God ?"

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:50 am

Duper wrote:I don't owe anything of the sort to myself. Multiple source (non-affiliated new agencies) paint a similar picture. Besides, I'm not really that interested in it; nor am I the DeVinci code.

okay then I won't tell you what shape the earth is.

yea I forgot about that bit Grendel.. If christians are willing to boycott this movie, what exactly are they afraid of? (yes I know there are exceptions to this but i'm not talking about those exceptions.)

Genghis · Post by **Genghis** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:13 am

Two things not mentioned so far in this discussion as far as I can tell:

(1) The book's author has complained that the director neutered the movie by removing a lot of the anti-religious stuff, giving it more mainstream appeal.

(2) Reviews for the movie aren't all the glowing anyway.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:27 am

Grendel wrote:"Story from an atheist, DON'T WATCH IT" -- why ?

No, it's not the fact that an atheist wrote the story. I'll read stories by atheists, watch movies by Muslims... if the story is worth reading/watching, then I have no problem with it.

The thing I have a problem with is when the story is just the setting for an agenda against my faith.

Grendel wrote:
Foil wrote:"I'm trying to undermine the basis of Christian belief." - Philip Pullman, author (link)
So what ? A lot of christian try to undermine my beliefs as well. How is that different ?

It's not different at all.

Do I need to clarify again?

I am making a big distinction here between:
1. "Written by someone with different beliefs" (this is okay with me)
2. "Written with the intent to attack my beliefs" (this is not okay)

I don't care much what an author believes, if their story is quality work. However, when an author attacks my faith in the content of the story, why would I even consider reading/watching?

Hypothetically, if 'The Silver Sundial' was an anti-Atheist film (i.e. it portrayed non-religious beliefs as ignorant, and the author said his goal was to undermine atheism), I wouldn't expect you to support it, either.

Ferno wrote:If christians are willing to boycott this movie, what exactly are they afraid of?

Grendel wrote:Christians fear to lose their faith ? Or fear to have their children lose faith ?

No, it's not because of fear. I would have to be paranoid and rather stupid to be afraid my (not-yet-existent) kids would "convert to atheism because of a movie".

It's because I don't support something that has an agenda of directly attacking my faith.

Grendel wrote:"God made me an atheist. Who are you to question God ?"

Nice... where is that quote from?

Kiran · Post by **Kiran** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:32 am

Heh, I wanted to see this movie and when I told my fiance' about it, he told me it's not a good idea because it's \"atheist\". I told him that I'll make my own judgement on what I think about the movie (after I read the book).

It seems so ridiculous to me about how so many Christians are protesting against this movie. When Christain movies targeting children came out, I don't recall much protestings from non-Christains.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:01 pm

If the reason someone gives is just \"it's atheist, or by an atheist\", then you're right, that's a ridiculous reason.

But the reason with this particular film is not just \"it's by an atheist\", the reason is \"it's by an atheist who (openly!) created the work as part of an anti-Christian/anti-religious agenda, and the theme of the movie directly attacks Christianity/religion\".

How many times do I have to clarify this? This is not petty Christians complaining about atheism, this is the same response I would expect of anyone (Christian, atheist, Hindu, Muslim, whatever) when a film directly attacks their beliefs!

The point, once again:

'The Golden Compass' is not a fantasy story which happens to be by an atheist (if that were the case, it would be fine by me).

By the author's own admission, it's a fundamentally anti-Christian/anti-religious work, which happens to be a fantasy story.

There's a big difference.

TIGERassault · Post by **TIGERassault** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:00 pm

Coming from a guy that read all three books, I can tell you that the book was made anti-religious to show that religions were not always holy and righteous. It showed that the religious groups were not always right while the non-believers were always wrong. It showed that good and evil was rarely black and white, the enemies weren't always the evil ones.
It's not a book that's saying 'religion is not wrong', it's a book that's saying 'religion is not always right'. If someone feels offended by the book, I feel pity for them; not because the book is anti-religious, but that they're ignorant enough to be offended by it in the first place.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:47 pm

talking bears? witches? magic?

sure looks fantasy to me.

roid · Post by **roid** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:27 pm

yeah if you want a purely anti-christianity experience - watch a suitable documentary.

i'm sure this is a compelling story, otherwise it wouldn't have been made into a movie.

It's not all about you. Harry Potter wasn't made to be a pagan story - although this is how a lot of morons categorise it.
Everything is about them, every movie is either pro-christian or anti-christian. These people live in small worlds.

THE FACT THAT THESE BOOKS WERE POPULAR, AND THIS MOVIE HAS BEEN MADE, INDICATES THAT THERE IS A COMPELLING STORY BEHIND IT AND THE MOVIE IS WORTH MORE THAN THESE MORON'S CATEGORY OF \"ANTI-CHRISTIAN ZOMG\".

stop trying to define yourself by what you consume. it's a compelling movie, not god's judgement day.

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:59 pm

Its about as compelling a movie as Chronicles of Narnia. (Atleast thats what the trailer makes it out to be, I'll report back when I see it.)

I'm going to make one thing crystal clear. I am a devout athiest. I do not believe in a \"higher power\", and yet I've seen just about every religious based movie thats been released. (Including \"The Greatest Story Ever Told\", and I'm referring to the Jeffrey Hunter version.) Why? Because it had a compelling story. Hell, I personally own the four disk set of Chronicles of Narnia, and have watched the movie countless times already. I even own the soundtrack. If that doesn't say anything, I don't know what will. I've also seen all three \"Lord of the Rings\" movies, all the Harry Potter movies (I do have a little nephew after all!), Contact, Clash of the Titans, etc. Whether a movie has a basis in religion makes no difference to me at all.

I suggest you see the movie and judge it for its merit, and not on the merit of the books it is based on. Its very likely that its vastly different. (like the movie Eragon is VASTLY different than the book series it is based on.) Give it a chance. If you still don't like it afterwards, then thats your prerogative.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:09 am

Not only that, but judging a movie based on what a few sites and media outlets write about it is just absolutely ridiculous.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:25 am

roid wrote:It's not all about you. Harry Potter wasn't made to be a pagan story - although this is how a lot of morons categorise it.

Unlike 'The Golden Compass', the 'Harry Potter' films are non-Christian, not anti-Christian. Heck, I've watched the first three, so your implication that I just won't watch anything non-Christian doesn't hold.

roid wrote:Everything is about them, every movie is either pro-christian or anti-christian. These people live in small worlds.

No, I never said or meant anything of the sort.

Of course there are other categories besides pro-Christian or anti-Christian. "Harry Potter" and "The Lord of the Rings" are two films in the same genre as "The Golden Compass", but only the third classifies as anti-Christian (the author himself said this!). I would be an idiot to put everything in those two categories, and I don't.

roid wrote:THE FACT THAT THESE BOOKS WERE POPULAR, AND THIS MOVIE HAS BEEN MADE, INDICATES THAT THERE IS A COMPELLING STORY BEHIND IT AND THE MOVIE IS WORTH MORE THAN THESE MORON'S CATEGORY OF "ANTI-CHRISTIAN ZOMG".

Again, no, I never said it didn't have a compelling story, either, so please stop putting words in my mouth.

Yes, I'm sure it appeals to lots of people. The ads look pretty cool, and I certainly enjoy the fantasy genre, so in other circumstances I would probably want to see a film like it.

However, when the author makes very specific statements attacking my belief system, and those statements are reflected by the theme of the story, it's 'done' for me, I'm not going to support it.

If you go see it, that's fine. I wouldn't expect a non-Christian to share my feelings on this, so please don't make another illogical jump and assume I'm a telling everyone to avoid the film.

--------------------------------

P.S. roid, that's twice that you called me (and anyone who believes similarly) a "moron". What's the deal?

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:35 am

MD-2389 wrote:... I've seen just about every religious based movie thats been released. ... Why? Because it had a compelling story. ... Whether a movie has a basis in religion makes no difference to me at all.

And whether a movie is atheist/non-religious doesn't make a difference to me, either.

However, when it crosses the line into antagonism, a direct attack on my belief system, that's a different story. Just as an example, Philip Pullman, when asked what 'The Golden Compass' was about, said "Killing God"; that's pretty clearly over the line.

MD-2389 wrote:I suggest you see the movie and judge it for its merit, and not on the merit of the books it is based on. Its very likely that its vastly different.

That could be a valid point. Genghis mentioned above that the author was complaining that some of his anti-religious elements from the book weren't being included in the film. That's not really enough to get me to see it, though.

roid · Post by **roid** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:56 pm

i was ranting to christianity as a whole.
Foil i wasn't speaking to you. who are you? where am i?

these morons are the ones who started the \"it's anti-christianity zomg!\" emails, and every christian who is effected by it - the people who feel a movie is so DANGEROUS to their fellow christians that they have to PRE-WARN them about it lest they see it and be tainted with unholy satan juices or some ★■◆●.

It shows a crazy fear of opposing viewpoints, so fearful that you have to warn others so that they don't expose themselves. They can't handle their beliefs being challenged by the world around them - they feel they and others need pre-warnings to protect them from the horrible horrible opposing viewpoints and non-christian ideas of real people in the real world outside.

You'll be exposed to more anti-christian ideas reading my posts than watching this movie.

the movie doesn't sound all that interesting to me personally, i won't watch it. i'm surely not going to 'watch it just coz christians hate it'.

Anti-christian viewpoints are not strange, they are NORMAL. When i see movies like this being made, i feel that the world is becomming a more normal place. I hardly have to 'support the movement', there's no stopping it.
It's the emerging culture.

Given this thread, it's no wonder. It's embarassing.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:02 am

I'll be seeing it either tomorrow or monday. I'll let you guys know how it is.

ptui!

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:07 am

Haven't seen the movie, haven't read the book so I wasn't following this thread then I read this Wired article
http://www.wired.com/entertainment/holl ... ff_compass
Not much doubt that the book's author is anti-religion

As Pullman put it bluntly on his Web site, \"All too often in human history, churches and priesthoods have set themselves up to rule people's lives in the name of some invisible God (and they're all invisible, because they don't exist) — and done terrible damage. In the name of their God, they have burned, hanged, tortured, maimed, robbed, violated and enslaved millions of their fellow-creatures, and done so with the happy conviction that they were doing the will of God, and they would go to heaven for it. That is the religion I hate, and I'm happy to be known as its enemy.\"

It seems the film is less so according to the director:

\"We're not dealing as directly as the books with a parallel-Earth version of the Catholic Church, which some fans probably see as a massive wimp-out, but I see that as actually a broadening of what the film is about. I had a bunch of conversations with Pullman about this — as far as he's concerned, it really is a statement against dogmatic authority of any kind. I think people who appreciate these issues in the book won't be disappointed with the film. I honestly do.\"

So I guess if your religion falls into the category that Pullman is glad to be the enemy of you won't like it and shouldn't give them any of your money. Just don't tell me where to spend mine thanks.

Palzon · Post by **Palzon** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:39 am

DCrazy wrote:
Foil wrote:I would expect the same of anyone else (e.g. I would expect any strong atheist to disapprove of his/her young kids going to a concert which is part of a Billy Graham crusade).
[snip]
For each side of this to berate the other for their perspective is just stupid.
You seemed to have missed something rather important... many people who are strong atheists tend to be of the opinion that rational people can make their own informed decisions.

DCrazy - Don't you know brainwashing works best when you don't allow other ideas in?

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:07 am

haha no kidding prefect. It looks like these people are getting all hot and bothered.. over nothing.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:02 pm

Sheesh, why am I being portrayed as \"the crazy guy who thinks no one should see the film\"? I never said or meant that.

I wouldn't expect it to bother anyone whose faith isn't being attacked. I never said people with other beliefs shouldn't see it.

I'm not being paranoid; I'm not \"afraid the film is going to convert my children\". I just won't support something that attacks my beliefs. It's that simple, so please don't imply I have other reasons.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:06 pm

no.. i just think you're shortchanging yourself because you chose to believe what a few articles wrote about the movie, instead of seeing it and finding out for yourself.

stop letting the media make up your mind.

TIGERassault · Post by **TIGERassault** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:14 pm

Ferno wrote:no.. i just think you're shortchanging yourself because you chose to believe what a few articles wrote about the movie, instead of seeing it and finding out for yourself.

stop letting the media make up your mind.

Well, not really. He kept saying that he didn't want to see it because Pullman said it was made to be anti-religious.

It can be shortened down to "I don't want to see the movie because the author's a faggot."

roid · Post by **roid** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:35 pm

TIGERassault wrote:
Ferno wrote:no.. i just think you're shortchanging yourself because you chose to believe what a few articles wrote about the movie, instead of seeing it and finding out for yourself.

stop letting the media make up your mind.
Well, not really. He kept saying that he didn't want to see it because Pullman said it was made to be anti-religious.

It can be shortened down to "I don't want to see the movie because the author's a faggot."

and we all know GOD HATES FAGS

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:15 am

Oh, okay. Now I'm not only a moron, I'm slandered as a homosexual-hater with a word I would never use? (Neither is true, of course.)

...Nice, real nice.

Honestly, it's somewhat amusing that while making a simple point about anti-Christian sentiment (yeah, it's there... the author openly admitted to it, and at least two people in here who read/watched the film/book already agreed), I'm suddenly experiencing that sentiment firsthand.

P.S. Next time before you decide to stereotype me again, go back, do a DBB search on both forums, and see where I stand.

roid · Post by **roid** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:09 am

hahaha aww man i'm only jokking. if i met you i'd hug you so hard it'd make us both sexually uncomfortable

<3

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:37 am

TIGERassault wrote:Well, not really. He kept saying that he didn't want to see it because Pullman said it was made to be anti-religious.

He read that the author said it was anti-religious. I've made it a rule to never let an article make up my mind for me when it comes to movies. I've enjoyed lots of flicks where the reviewer said they sucked.

And foil.. quit being ridiculous!

If you're so confident in your beliefs, why are you letting some stupid article sway you?

If I told you I was anti-religious, would you run away from me?

TIGERassault · Post by **TIGERassault** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:25 am

Foil wrote:Oh, okay. Now I'm not only a moron, I'm slandered as a homosexual-hater with a word I would never use? (Neither is true, of course.)

Oh right, you're American. Here, 'faggot' is just a regular insult.
How about "I don't want to see the movie because the author's a bast"?

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:30 am

bast??
Maybe I don't want to know.

Foil-Like I said don't give them any of your money. No need to go see and make up your mind because you can't get your money back after and then you go down as one more statistic that will encourage them to make the next two books in the series into film. That quote I posted gives you all you need to know.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:27 pm

Ford Prefect wrote:Like I said don't give them any of your money. No need to go see and make up your mind because you can't get your money back after /snip

Did you know if you leave the theatre after twenty minutes you can get your money back?

Well, I saw it today. glad I did. awesome movie.

Right out of the gate it says 'parallel earth'. that right there should tell anyone that this is pure fantasy. Talking polar bears, prophetic watches, witches, magic dust, daemons that stay beside people.. it's all fantasy.

It has this magasterium thing. It's a place where some tyrant has taken control and is systematically destroying free thought or free will. Going into institutions and influencing them to do things their way, making certain subjects taboo (punishable by death or something), and just being all around oppressive to the populace.

They even take kids and do this operation to them where they seperate and kill their daemon, or soul.

Those who miss this movie because of what they have read online.. are missing out greatly.

I just bet ya that if an article claimed the matrix or dark crystal was anti-christian, half the people here would have refused to watch it based on that alone.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:54 pm

Ferno wrote:And foil.. quit being ridiculous! If you're so confident in your beliefs, why are you letting some stupid article sway you?

If I told you I was anti-religious, would you run away from me?

No, I'd stay and talk... you should know by now that I love to dialogue with people who don't believe the same things I do.

But I sure wouldn't pay my hard-earned $$ to read/watch your book/movie, if you told me you wrote it as an anti-Christian piece.

Ferno wrote:I just bet ya that if an article claimed the matrix or dark crystal was anti-christian, half the people here would have refused to watch it based on that alone.

Yep, you're probably right. Unfortunately, many Christians will believe anything they hear from a source which labels itself "Christian".

...but that's not the case here. 'The Matrix' trilogy (I thoroughly enjoyed all three) was not anti-Christian. 'The Golden Compass' is, even though the film watered down some of the anti-religious language. (For example, the "Magisterium" in the film is just called the "Church" in the original book.)

Ferno, as I've said at least twice now already, this is not something I'm just blindly regurgitating from some religious publication, as you seem to think. It's simply the truth, made very openly clear by the author, confirmed by multiple non-Christian sources, and confirmed by at least two people here who read/saw it. The fact that it wasn't obvious to you when you saw the film makes me wonder if you're the one ignoring the facts.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:03 pm

I'm pretty sure i'm the first guy here to see the movie, dude.

It showed me that most of the articles are.. well.. full of crap.

you can put your faith in the internet if you wish, but I'm glad I saw it with my own eyes.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:15 pm

OOH, OOH, I'm scared. Another fantasy movie to warp the minds of our children and turn them from reality! Religious groups griped about the Harry Potter movies as well. Give me a break and just enjoy the story. I notice they didn't put up a stink about The Chronicles of Narnia movie either.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:18 pm

Ferno wrote:I'm pretty sure i'm the first guy here to see the movie, dude.

Your glowing review still stands up against two earlier ones (by people who agreed with you, no less!) about the books the film is derived from:

TIGERassault wrote:Coming from a guy that read all three books, I can tell you that the book was made anti-religious.

Wishmaster wrote:I've read the trilogy - yes, I really enjoyed it, but yes, it's downright anti-religious.

It doesn't matter that they softened the anti-Christian rhetoric from the books. That theme is still prevalent, according to every single piece of information I've encountered, (no, not biased Christian sources; I'm talking about reputable sites and the author's own published statements).

Sure, it's possible that all those sources are wrong, and Philip Pullman just loves everybody, and The Golden Compass is just a nice fluffy story without any sort of anti-religious theme... and Alice in Wonderland wasn't a scathing political commentary....

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:20 pm

tunnelcat wrote:OOH, OOH, I'm scared. Another fantasy movie to warp the minds of our children and turn them from reality! Religious groups griped about the Harry Potter movies as well. Give me a break and just enjoy the story. I notice they didn't put up a stink about The Chronicles of Narnia movie either.

Quit skimming, take the time to go back and read the posts, because the above isn't what was said at all.

By the way, as I've said at least twice already, there's a big difference between films like Harry Potter and The Golden Compass. One is non-Christian, the other is very clearly anti-Christian.

TIGERassault · Post by **TIGERassault** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:37 pm

Foil wrote:
Ferno wrote:
TIGERassault wrote:Coming from a guy that read all three books, I can tell you that the book was made anti-religious.

I didn't type that, don't misquote me!

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:07 pm

I just hope \"The Golden Compass\" is in my theatre this weekend or I'm going to be

. The trailers are awesome.

Bee

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:29 pm

I'd probably enjoy it, too, if it weren't for the underlying theme. I love those kind of movies.

TIGERassault wrote:
Foil wrote:
TIGERassault wrote:Coming from a guy that read all three books, I can tell you that the book was made anti-religious.
I didn't type that, don't misquote me!

Ummm, it's on the second page of this thread, T.

I know, you went on to say why you think the anti-religious stance is warranted. I just wanted to quote the fact that you confirmed that stance exists.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:36 am

I guess a movie showing that people want free will and free choice is a bad thing.

I find your weak confidence in your own faith disturbing.

TigerRaptor · Post by **TigerRaptor** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:22 am

All of this over The Golden Compass. I'd hate to see you people argue over Robot Chicken then.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:50 am

i dont' watch that either ;P

The Golden Compass

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