Different levels.

[Spaceboy]

Just a few months ago I came back to Descent after around 2-3 years of an absence from it...

99% of the time, people are playing the same levels. What is disturbing about this, is these are the very same levels that were played commonly 3 years ago.

I don't get it, even if a level was absolutely amazing, wouldn't it get totally boring after about half a year? Even with a community as strong as this, I'm surprised the forums are still Descent-based simply because of that.

Do people really love these levels that much over every single other Descent level in existence? Escpecially when they have been ridiculously overplayed?

There needs to be like a single week out of each month, or mabye each year where servers host different levels, unpopular ones, different from veins, skybox, subway dancer, Halcyon, Stadium, Indika... etc.

I don't know if it's just me, but I'm getting tired of these levels and am way more than willing to try almost anything else.

[Wheeze87]

In truth Descent isnt the only game to suffer from this. I play ALOT of counterstrike 1.6, adn the only maps you see on good servers are de_dust2, de_aztec, and de_nuke. And yeah these get boring after a while. I mean thesse maps are 10 years old.

[Foil]

When I first started hosting servers, I thought it would be as easy as putting up some good non-common (i.e. non-Skybox/Abend/Subway) levels, and people would join... not so, unfortunately. I put up some good not-so-common levels like Gladius and Skin Like Winter and others, left them up for weeks... and they just never got played.

It's sad, because I keep seeing the veteran players bemoaning the lack of good level selection, but rarely does anyone ever actually jump in and start a game.
Hell, right now there are a few good levels up and running... Athena, Bill the Cat, Cube, Faded Rose, Core, Keg Party, Koors, the Cannery, Skin Like Winter, Skull, Vamped, Yucatan... but are they getting played? Not much.

FYI, RIP has been hosting an open \"Wednesday Night Fight Club\" for years, where we pick an unusual level to play for the night. Last week was Yucatan, and it was a blast!

If anyone wants something hosted, just let me or one of the other server-ops know. You can bet someone will be willing to host it up quickly, and maybe we can get some good gaming in.

[Grendel]

I play the level I find people in. I don't have the time nor patience to camp in a \"good\" level until someone joins.

[Krom]

Only way to reliably get a good game in an 'unpopular' level is to arrange it ahead of time. Unless you are willing to settle for a 1v1 but a lot of these levels are too big for that.

[Dakatsu]

Reminds me of Unreal Tournament with the amount of played levels... VaricroseVeins is the new CTF-Face!

[Testiculese]

This is why I rarely play. I spent 6 months every night I looked at the server list:

Abend
Skybox

I stopped looking.

[Hattrick]

This is why I rarely play. I spent 6 months every night I looked at the server list:

Abend
Skybox

I stopped looking.

QFT!!

[Krom]

I look at the server list and I see Veincyon and Burning Subwaybox 3. I've played those levels so much in the past that playing them is like doing a unrewarding job and not getting paid for it either. I have completely exhausted my tolerance to play those levels and those styles of play, I just can't have fun in them anymore.

[Foil]

... Then give me a level request. I'll get it hosted up, and you guys can quit your whining and play.

Seriously, there have been at least five of these threads in the last year or so complaining about the level selection, but only ONCE have I ever received a related level request (which only one person ever joined, for about two minutes).

If you don't like what's being hosted, ask the serverop for something else. All you guys have to do is join.

[grizz]

I jump in oddball levels all the time. Half the time I fly around by myself for 15 minutes. Must be my breath.

I put up Amateur Arena a couple of weeks ago by special request, left it up all week, never had a player in it. Oh well.

We did have a good time in Underground Shark yesterday for about 3 hours, anywhere from 4-6 players, coulda easily had twice that and not been crowded.

I jumped in The Wet Spot CTF Saturday, and had a good game for a while. Needed more people though.

Ya just gotta start one and see who bites.

[Krom]

Just having the server up isn't good enough, there are already some good levels being hosted it is gathering the players that matters. All the players rather than taking the chance of starting a game in some unknown level will stick to what they know and are comfortable in regardless of what other options are available.

Back when D3 had 60-90 active players every night the popular levels would fill up and so people would be willing to jump into a new level if someone just waited in one for a few minutes. Granted they usually left after a couple deaths and never came back, but it was still remotely possible to drag a few players into a game in any level you wanted without having to arrange it ahead of time.

[CDN_Merlin]

Veridium 6 level I Loved to play, Need about 6 players though

[Foil]

Merlin, Veridium 6 was up (in Insta-Reap) for months... I played it a number of times.

If you're making a level request, you gotta give some more specifics.

Just having the server up isn't good enough, there are already some good levels being hosted it is gathering the players that matters.

True. It's a matter of getting people to join you, not a matter of which levels are up.

[Bet51987]

Not all of us are experts. I'm not, and never will be, so I play the levels that I find both challenging and entertaining or I wouldn't play otherwise. I also tend to look for recognizable pilot names of players who have become my friends over the years and join those levels first because they maximize the fun factor for me.

What I don’t have fun with is playing against someone using an MD which seems to be the expert’s weapon of choice. I have at least some chance against, vauss, fusions, and every other weapon except that one which I really hate in the hands of an expert who kills you so fast you never see him. It’s like I’m playing the invisible man. I played someone a long time ago that got me 47 to 1 and he called me a good sport for playing with him. Truth is, I didn’t want to leave him alone so I stayed and took it, but God did I hate that MD.

So, is the problem “two” groups? The fun group and the serious group? I don’t know, but I would play other levels with any of you as long as you park that MD.. All I want is half a chance.

Just my POV

Bee

[Grendel]

MD isn't that powerfull. Dodge it by making your flight path unpredictable. Practice recovering from a hit and your own MD skills. What they do to you, you can do to them.

[Behemoth]

You can't \"dodge\" MD whatsoever.
You can throw off their aim, But to say dodging MD is possible is misleading.

[Foil]

True, and I think that's what Gren meant. Smooth-flying ships just look like easy targets to good MD pilots. You have to not only make your flight path unpredictable, but you can eventually learn to anticipate approximately when that MD shot is going to be fired, and take a random dodge just beforehand.

MD is intimidating when you're up against someone who is good with it. But you can get to that level with practice.

[Spaceboy]

I jump in oddball levels all the time. Half the time I fly around by myself for 15 minutes. Must be my breath.

I put up Amateur Arena a couple of weeks ago by special request, left it up all week, never had a player in it. Oh well.

We did have a good time in Underground Shark yesterday for about 3 hours, anywhere from 4-6 players, coulda easily had twice that and not been crowded.

I jumped in The Wet Spot CTF Saturday, and had a good game for a while. Needed more people though.

Ya just gotta start one and see who bites.

I went in there but got banned before I could say hello, haha.

I've also been flying around in random levels for 10-20ish minutes every now and then, only once have I had someone join.


Foil, could you host some 'Glasshouse'?

and

IxxI Levels 2.0- level 2 'Trapped'? (His level 1 is kinda weird, but his level 2 has a very interesting concept that I'd love to play.) (hosted on PD if you don't have it)

and

'Luminous' for ctf.

[Bet51987]

True, and I think that's what Gren meant. Smooth-flying ships just look like easy targets to good MD pilots. You have to not only make your flight path unpredictable, but you can eventually learn to anticipate approximately when that MD shot is going to be fired, and take a random dodge just beforehand.

MD is intimidating when you're up against someone who is good with it. But you can get to that level with practice.

I think you missed this part, at least for me... "I'm not, and never will be"...

It's not attitude, it just is. I don't have lightning fast reflexes and I have never been able to dodge an MD in the hands of an expert player. I play with a mouse and keyboard and don't play any other game except DOA4 (I'm Christie ) or sometimes Wii with my friends. None of those require a joystick which I have never used. I can visualize an MD boy strapped to his chair with left and right joysticks built in while wearing special goggles. You know what I mean.

Although with me it's just the MD that scares me away, some players have awesome reflexes and flying skills. I've seen flag runners in Halcyon rack up points one after the other by flying so fast it ticks me off.

The experts play together well, but they show no mercy when they spot a weaker player who will be picked off relentlessly as soon as he/she enters a level. I tend to treat a weaker player differently and practice my dodging skills instead of sending them to an early grave but that's me. However, I also love the challenge of getting my butt handed to me by a good player...less the MD.

Like it or not, there are two player groups. I may be wrong about this so don't judge my pov.

Bee

[Grendel]

\"Never give up, never surrender!\"

[Krom]

Bet, I guarantee your reflexes are no better or worse than the next player, I've seen plenty of female players who weren't afraid of MD in any level or any other weapon for that matter. The only difference between you and them is willingness and determination.

With the amount of time you play you can decide if you are going to grow and expand your abilities as a pilot, or keep doing the same thing and get more and more confined to just one type of level or style. Anyone with a little time has the opportunity to grow and play in new ways. If you don't have the determination to change like that fine, just don't say things like \"I cant\" when it is really \"I wont\".

[Spaceboy]

Honestly, getting good at Descent3 is probably about 30% wanting to, 60% trying hard to do better when you play, and mabye about 10% actual skills. I think I've only ever seen you in subway dancer, if that's all Descent is to you then that really isn't my problem, you're just missing out on much more. meth, Behemoth, probably tried the hardest out of anyone who's played Descent3, and now he wins 99% of the time of the remaining people in Descent3. What you get out is the work you put into it. He tried as hard as he possibly could, and it shows.

[Sergeant Thorne]

When a player reaches a certain plateau with MD, evasion becomes more of a mind-game than anything else. You gotta put your left turn-signal on, then go right!!

Some of them may be using a modded MD reticle too. My zoom cross-hairs stuck somehow, briefly, in Worlds Apart 2 once, and I didn't miss a shot for at least the next 5 rounds. Despite that, I never got around to customizing mine. All right, 'fess up! Who's using a modded MD reticle?

(Truth be told, if a player is sharp enough with MD, you've got to be as quick as you are unpredictable in order to escape the shot. But we're talking MD sharp-shooter... Kal-El, Kryptonian, Man of Steel, Hero... all of these guys were just awesome with MD, they were legends... Descent phenomenons... [/BS])

[Behemoth]

lol. thornes ego will never change :p

[WillyP]

Bet, I guarantee your reflexes are no better or worse than the next player, I've seen plenty of female players who weren't afraid of MD in any level or any other weapon for that matter. The only difference between you and them is willingness and determination.

With the amount of time you play you can decide if you are going to grow and expand your abilities as a pilot, or keep doing the same thing and get more and more confined to just one type of level or style. Anyone with a little time has the opportunity to grow and play in new ways. If you don't have the determination to change like that fine, just don't say things like "I cant" when it is really "I wont".

Krom it's got nothing to do with gender. I understand perfectly what Bet is saying and I will say she is 10 times better than I. I hated megas and shakers at first, but I am learning to dodge them. So now I like them. Still, for me the MD just comes outta nowhere, it seems, at my skill level there's little I can do so it is not much fun. If I played more often I know I would get better, and faster. I think fast reflexes is a learnable thing. Point being, I generally won't play levels with the MD, except with my kids. It's fun getting my butt kicked by an 8 and a 10 year old.

[Sergeant Thorne]

lol. thornes ego will never change :p

We try to be consistent.

[Money!]

lol. thornes ego will never change :p

lol@moth

talkin bout ego

I'll respond to the rest of the thread when I have some real time

[Foil]

Spaceboy is right, being good at Descent has very little to do with "skill", and much more to do with intentionally learning elements of the game by experience, just playing it as much as you can.

MD is a great example of this. I remember getting plastered over and over and over and over by players better than me with the MD when I first started playing online... it was frustrating.

So I started asking how they do it, trying to emulate some of their moves, but most of all just practicing. Insta-Reap was a big help in learning how to fine-tune my timing (although over-playing it kinda screwed up some of my tactics) - and now I can pretty well hold my own with most pilots, at least when it comes to using the MD.

Like it or not, there are two player groups.

I don't know if I would put everyone into one group or another... it's probably more like a spectrum of seriousness vs. recreational players.

But don't mind all the serious pilots in here too much; if playing-to-practice isn't much fun for you, play the way you enjoy. (I will say, however, there's definitely something enjoyable about being able to hang with a higher-skilled player. )

[d3jake]

With the amount of time you play you can decide if you are going to grow and expand your abilities as a pilot, or keep doing the same thing and get more and more confined to just one type of level or style. Anyone with a little time has the opportunity to grow and play in new ways.

I used to stick to chuck-and-run levels alot, because I didn't like big open levels because I got killed really often. But, after some encouragement I got into those kinds of levels, and I can enjoy both main types evenly. I still camp as I have in the past, but no pilot should be without knowing how to properly utilize all styles of play. If you're in a level, and dogfighting isn't working, try to camp a little bit, or if you don't want to do that, sucker your opponent into chasing you down a hallway, and smack them with a missile. The idea is to get them playing your game. Foil knows how well I can do that, he'll try to barrel in head first with guns blazing, but normally I'll have a charged fusion or some missile waiting for him.
When you go to play in other types of levels (I don't know what levels that people like to stick in more than others, but I'll assume that since most often Skybend Dancer seems to be palyed most often, that that is what is "favored".)

So if you try to go into another level (Destruction Junction, Faded Rose, Mano-a-Mano) try to stick with Fusion\\quad Supers\\non-BP Plasma, and you'll prolly get killed alot if that's not your normal style, but every time you die, you learn something, wether you realize it or not, the more you get wailed on, the more you'll learn.

[Foil]

...Skybend Dancer seems to be palyed most often...

"Skybend Dancer"

[grizz]

OK, the plan for tonight is team anarchy in Canyon Siege. That level's got something for everybody.
Even the timid tunnel rats like me.
Everybody usually starts drifting in about 8 pm EST. Make a plan.
It ain't Subway, or Abend, or Veins, or Skybox, or Halcyon, so everybody show up.

[Foil]

[Kyouryuu]

It's about time someone whined about Halcyon. I can't believe y'all still play that thing.

[BUBBALOU]

Halcyon - it's just a Halfpipe wannabe, the creator obviously wasn't that creative

[Foil]

I have Gladius and BillTheCat up at the moment - both excellent under-played levels. Plus, I'm also running a Duel server.

[Kyouryuu]

Halcyon - it's just a Halfpipe wannabe, the creator obviously wasn't that creative

Actually, I thought of it more as a Steel Vapor cut in half, but that's just Mr. Uncreative talking.

[BUBBALOU]

...... but that's just Mr. Uncreative talking.

.........Obviously

I like your 2 donuts and a cup of coffee level, that one was Creative sort of.....

[Duper]

ahh and then there were the \"demo days\" when all we had as Taurus, Core, Halfpipe and Polaris.There were a couple of others but I've forgotten their names. ..apparition and the one with the wall all the way around.

[grizz]

...Skybend Dancer seems to be palyed most often...

"Skybend Dancer"

'Course you really gotta avoid Halcyveins Junction.

Canyon was fun though. Filled up 14 players at a time.