Winter tires mandatory

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:50 am

The province of Quebec has made winter tires mandatory starting next season. Ontario will follow suit soon.

I agree with this because most people drive until there all season tires are bald.

Fact: Once your all seasons are 15% worn, they are no longer good in Winter.
Fact: Winter tires give better traction, handling and stopping power.

I have always used winter tires. I own a pair of Michelen X-Ice that cost 1300$ with rims for my Impala.
I feel very safe using them. I know they won't stop me from being hit from behind by a dude with all seasons but I'm doing my part to be safe.

Do you think the Gov't is right in enforcing this or do you think everyone should be allowed to use what they want?

And before you say that the cost is a factor, consider this. If you use your all season all year round, they will wear out faster which in turn will force you to buy new ones. Winter tires will last 5+ years which will make your all season last that long instead of maybe 2 years.

TechPro · Post by **TechPro** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:49 am

I grew up traveling around the Wyoming, Montana, and Idaho regions and while that isn't like traveling in Canada, snow on the roads is a 'fact of life' for nearly 2/3 of the entire year, and there are places you can go anytime of the year and drive in snow.

The Government is looking to protect the general public. It's in the interest of the people.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:55 am

Too bad you can’t simply download those badboys…..sorry I couldn’t resist..

mistercool2 · Post by **mistercool2** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:29 am

Being born and raised near Buffalo, NY (the snow belt) I know the difference between driving with and w/o snow tires. Since this involves the safety of everyone (not just those behind the wheel) and too many people won't use them for one reason or another, I'm all for making it manditory. The cost shouldn't be a factor but I'm sure it's one of the main reasons many people decide to \"take their chances\". If the govt. offered some kind of incentive, fewer people would use this as an excuse.

Wings · Post by **Wings** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:59 am

I think it's similar to the law that you have to wear seatbelts, I see nothing wrong with it.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:05 pm

This isn't something that affects only the driver of the vehicle (e.g. \"All drivers must tune their stereos to 'easy-listening' music\"), it's something that protects other drivers. So, yes, I would support it.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:06 pm

[double-post]

Kyouryuu · Post by **Kyouryuu** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:58 pm

There is a hidden cost though. Chains really do the number on the pavement.

Certainly, saving lives is worth more than the cost of paving a road, but some of the roads around here are just gnarly after the big trucks run down them with their heavy-duty chains and snow tires.

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:33 pm

There are no chains allowed in most places in Canada unless you are out in bum f*ck nowhere.

Winter tires here are studless and are softer than normal tires.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:17 pm

Who said anything about chains?

Anyway only Police and Fire are allowed to use chains here where I live, as far as winter tires…I’m not sure if they’re required…but I know if you get stuck on a “snow emergency route” without them, your in big ship if you get caught.

As far as my personal opinion as a former amateur race driver…all weather tires don’t perform as well as specialty tires for a given job, so for the sake of safety I agree with the law.

roid · Post by **roid** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:27 am

man, i've never seen winter tires or tire chains in use before. i'd really like to see it - sounds wild. i hear of ppl snapping axels coz of the amount of traction, taht true?.

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:44 am

Never seen chains used. AFAIK, they are allowed only up north in farm country. Winter tires as I know them here are just softer rubber and better traction.

TechPro · Post by **TechPro** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:00 pm

roid wrote:man, i've never seen winter tires or tire chains in use before. i'd really like to see it - sounds wild. i hear of ppl snapping axels coz of the amount of traction, taht true?.

Winter tires don't give you that much traction. Ppl only snap their axels if they do the chains wrong and/or try to turn too tight while the chains are on... and force the vehicle.

The biggest drawback to having the chains on is the rough ride. It's like strapping rocks onto the tires in sets and then driving on them. You DON'T drive fast (if problems don't arise first you'll shake apart first) and you don't turn too tight. It also can wear out the tires really fast if you get on packed dirt or paved road now and then, not to mention throwing the tire's balance totally out of whack.

Other than that, chains are good for great traction when nearly nothing else works.

Winter tires ride just like regular tires, just grip a little better on slippery surfaces. Nothing special, just a good idea on snowy/slippery roads.

JMEaT · Post by **JMEaT** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:03 pm

If it's government mandated, it should be government rebated.

WillyP · Post by **WillyP** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:12 pm

TechPro wrote:
roid wrote:i hear of ppl snapping axels coz of the amount of traction, taht true?.
Winter tires don't give you that much traction. Ppl only snap their axels if they do the chains wrong and/or try to turn too tight while the chains are on... and force the vehicle.

The biggest drawback to having the chains on is the rough ride. It's like strapping rocks onto the tires in sets and then driving on them. You DON'T drive fast (if problems don't arise first you'll shake apart first) and you don't turn too tight. It also can wear out the tires really fast if you get on packed dirt or paved road now and then, not to mention throwing the tire's balance totally out of whack.

The reason axles break when using chains is the pounding on the wheel bearing, causes the wheel bearing to fail, and the axle in turn. The chains are so noisy you don't notice the bad bearing until the axle come out of the housing.

Snow treads, as opposed to all season, should not be used year round as the aggressive tread puts less rubber in contact with the road, plus the harder (no, not softer) rubber compound reduces traction on dry pavement. And they are noisier that regular tires.

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:51 pm

Government legislating personal responsibility. It's as dumb a law as seat belt and helmet laws.

The law isn't for your safety, it's for the bottom line of the insurance company.

WillyP · Post by **WillyP** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:53 pm

Ah, the Almighty Buck!

Top Wop · Post by **Top Wop** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:10 pm

Last few posts echo my sentiments.

I live in snow area too. We have cars that have all season tires, and this winter we had a shortage of salt in our region due to the freeze/thaw cycle we had each week for the last oh 2 months. Not once did I or my family ever end up in a ditch or into someone's bumper because of the crazy road conditions. Common sense tops everything else. You could have snow tires on a 4 wheel drive SUV and you will STILL end up in a ditch. Its how you drive, dummy. Not what you got.

The only people I see in the ditches are the SUV types, thinking they are all-powerful with their all-wheel drive. And of course the 18-year old who took a curve too fast. Thats it.

Government should buzz off and mind their own business. This is nothing more than another source of income like seatbelt laws. You think if the government is really concerned with safety that they would better educate and train their drivers and deny licenses to those who are showing physical incapabilities (old people).

heftig · Post by **heftig** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:28 pm

WillyP wrote:plus the harder (no, not softer) rubber compound reduces traction on dry pavement. And they are noisier that regular tires.

Winter tires are softer! They are designed for lower temperatures. In summer, they wear down faster due to increased abrasion.

Genghis · Post by **Genghis** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:47 am

heftig wrote:
WillyP wrote:plus the harder (no, not softer) rubber compound reduces traction on dry pavement. And they are noisier that regular tires.
Winter tires are softer! They are designed for lower temperatures. In summer, they wear down faster due to increased abrasion.

As long as we're picking apart technical details, I'll mention that snow tires aren't just worse on dry pavement; they're also generally worse on wet pavement. Snow tires are really only useful on snow & ice. And, in many places you get snow & ice just for a day or two during a storm, then the roads are clear again. So snow tires aren't even useful during most of the winter, just during storms.

Note the above does not apply if you live in an area with perpetually snow-covered roads. Which is not most populated areas.

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:51 am

Well, after getting 52 cm of snow over the weekend I enjoy my winter tires. They work well even on dry pavement because they stay softer than all seasons.

All seasons are good until about -5c. Winter tires are good to about -30c. They stay soft longer which helps to grip the road.

Kiran · Post by **Kiran** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:05 am

For areas that see snow and ice regularly I would support having winter tires mandated (with a little bit of government funding for lower income families). In areas like here in East TN, that doesn't really see anything 'cept for a bad ice day maybe once or twice a year, I would not support having winter tires regulated. However, I would support government effort to have people take drivers education classes maybe once evry 5 years or so... that'd be cheaper than having to spend money on better tires (and cheaper than getting into wrecks a lot of time!).

Honestly, areas that rarely see snow/ice should have enforcing regulations for drivers to take classes. Over time, people tend to forget how to drive and when \"old man winter\" hits, it's disasterous.

Here's a classic example: I live in East TN. The county I live in is not next to the mountains so when it snows,we did not really had any snow/ice days. The county next to us runs over the Smoky Mountains, Several weeks ago, we had a storm came through one morning. It was just raining at 5am. Then at 6am temperatures got colder. Next thing we knew, rain turned into sleet and the roads iced up.
In just less than two hours, the police department received over 200 reported accidents. The county next to us received barely 50. Naturally, the mountain area would be worse off than the valley, yet in the valley, there were so many accidents. There were too many inexperienced reckless drivers that authorities literally shut down the roads until later in the day.
I'm with Top Wop on the education part. If people can't drive safely in wintry conditions, then the gov better make sure they are educated before getting back on the road again. I don't know how well northern inexperienced drivers can drive, but I know it's a problem for most people in the South who doesn't see winter often.

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:21 am

Kiran, people here drive like they know how to. Thing is, in winter, people forget to clean all the snow off their vehicles. This is a major pain. It's also against the law. But the Police don't enforce it much. We recieved 52cm of snow over the weekend. Most roads have 1 lane full of snow. People still drive like it's summer and the majority of them use all seasons. They think they are kings. Well, I can tell you I've seen may cars over the weekend stuck in snow piles or in a ditch.

Educating drivers I doubt would work. The people who know how to drive in slippery conditions are the cautious ones. The others, couldn't care less. They are the dumb arses who think nothing will ever happen to them. So forcing them to take classes will piss them off and they won't pay attention. Then they will complain and sue the Gov't because we took their license away, etc etc etc.

We get on average 7 feet of snow per season. This season we are almost at our record of 14 feet. I see people driving 100MPH during a blizzard on highways. Some are lucky and survive, others aren't and end up killing themselves or worse yet, someone else.

Sadly, we need the Gov't to regulate certain things because the majority of peolpe are to stupid to do it themselves.

I still see people not wearing seatbelts. My best friend didn't until his Mini was hit while backing out of his parking spot at work by a courier at about 20KPH. Did about $2000 damage to his car and bounced him around like crazy. He's since been wearing his seatbelt. This is even after I told him to wear it and after I had my car accident last year.

For most people, it takes a major thing to happen to them before they change.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:58 pm

And these laws protect other people too, unlike seatbelt and helmet laws.

Also keep in mind that driving is not a right it’s a privilege therefore the government can place any restriction or control they see fit.

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:58 pm

Spidey wrote:And these laws protect other people too, unlike seatbelt and helmet laws.

Also keep in mind that driving is not a right it’s a privilege therefore the government can place any restriction or control they see fit.

Try telling that to 90% of the drivers. They really think it's their right to drive.

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