Complete Control

[Alter-Fox]

If it did happen, it would be in the FAR future.

[Tunnelcat]

Tunnelcat. Ever read "A Wrinkle in Time"?

(if not, I'll expound)

It sounds familiar but I can't quit remember how it goes. Please expound.

[Alter-Fox]

I remember I read it, in elementary school. I'm going to University next year, so it's obviously been a long time, and I can't remember anything about it. The only thing I remember was that at the time that I read it, I didn't like it much, and that I had a dream about it sometime (I think). (I know I've had at least two dreams having to do with parts of one of the novels I'm writing... the strange thing about those is it was obviously the same characters, but the events in the dreams haven't happened yet, although one of them would be great for just before the climax. (I've also had two dreams that inspired short stories, one of which I still have to write.))

Sorry for going off on that huge tangent.

[flip]

Complete Control. Heh, that's probably my worst fear. From listening to everybody else it seems inevitable.

[Duper]

Tunnelcat. Ever read "A Wrinkle in Time"?

(if not, I'll expound)

It sounds familiar but I can't quit remember how it goes. Please expound.

Among other things going on in the story, the "hero's" of the story wind up on a planet that is universally controlled by a single entity. They had very little independent thought and were forced to do things when this entity (a very large brain) told them to do it. Things like take out the garbage (all at the same time), go to work (all at the same time) going out and playing and going back in (all at the same time). Complete control and all the while promising peace and prosperity.

A bit silly on some levels but over all not a bad read. There's a lot more, but it's been years since I've read the book.

[Tunnelcat]

Ah yes, I vaguely remember it now. This theme seems to be universal in all fields of writing, but especially SciFi. It must be some deep seated fear that people have of being put under the all encompassing control of some authoritarian entity. What's funny to me is that fear gets overridden in most deeply religious people. They embrace the total authority and control of GOD above all else in their lives and will submit to it without question. They will even submit to a human (minister, pastor, rabbi, cleric, etc.) who will claim to be doing things for their benefit in the name of GOD.

I watched a show last night about people that were living off the grid in New Mexico. They were an eclectic group of homeless kids, old hippies, families, and war vets. It dawned on me while watching these people that I was seeing 'free will' at it's most extreme. These people were fiercely independent, very patriotic (embraced the constitution but not the government), had an abhorrence of big cities and crowds and were willing to live in extreme conditions with scarce water and food, bad shelter, poor health and harsh weather. Their lives looked miserable and hard, but they WANTED it that way. Their lives were very free flowing and unstructured.

Then I thought, there IS another group that craves structure and control that's in the news right now and goes with my first paragraph. It's the FLDS Church in Texas. Here is an example of rigid social structure and control by a single man, Warren Jeffs. And these people must enjoy and embrace the whole concept of total control by this man and his brothers or the church would have never formed in the first place and most of them would have left by now, especially after the removal of their children. You'll notice that they are still fighting to go back to the way they were living because it feels secure to them, they LIKE it. Sure there are some who have left the church, but they were probably the 'authority abhorring free thinker' types.

That gets me back to AggressorPrime's idea. I don't think his idea would be possible with the present natural scale of human personality types that are so widely variable in their acceptance of rigid social control and organization, some crave it and some abhor it, with a wide variation in between. You're always going to have resistance to rigid control in some people. However, in order to eliminate the wide variation of personalities in humans, you would literally have to genetically select or program from birth, the trait of craving organization and social control, in other words, get rid of the messy, lazy, free thinking, anti-authoritarian trait. Structure and organization is an obviously natural desire in many people. IF it could be found and isolated genetically, it could be the basis for altering ALL future offspring to have this same trait. THEN you could have a central 'Controller' and a very compliant populace that would crave the whole system. They would even have some free will that would give them the illusion of control within their own lives. BUT now we're talking 'Eugenics' and we know THAT is a very dirty word among most rational people. So this idea will probably never happen, nor would we really want it to. Maybe that's why we humans were designed with such a wide variation of personality types. Adaptability to change.

Also, the 'Central Control', idea may have a fatal flaw. Which is more resistant to catastrophic failure, a 'central processor' that controls the whole machine or a 'parallel processor' that only controls sections of the machine? Which will be more adaptable to outside changes or unexpected influences or even a disaster? Would the 'Central Control' be built on top of 'Parallel Controller' components for redundancy and efficiency? Who would architect the whole thing and keep it stable?

[flip]

Ah yes, I vaguely remember it now. This theme seems to be universal in all fields of writing, but especially SciFi. It must be some deep seated fear that people have of being put under the all encompassing control of some authoritarian entity. What's funny to me is that fear gets overridden in most deeply religious people. They embrace the total authority and control of GOD above all else in their lives and will submit to it without question. They will even submit to a human (minister, pastor, rabbi, cleric, etc.) who will claim to be doing things for their benefit in the name of GOD.

It seems to me the majority of people do that. Nothing irks me more than seeing a Police car and everybody at once reacts in fear and starts hitting their brakes. Having done nothing wrong.

Having one person in charge is probably the best course. Only one problem with that. I don't trust anybody to have that power. The only way it would work, is if that person counted you as an equal. Like Family. A son or daughter if you will. Can you think of anything you would withhold from your children? I have 4, and I would die for them if I had to. I have no problem submitting to someone who would give their life for me. THAT person could be trusted.

[Tunnelcat]

Have you met a person that meets that criteria, EVER?

[flip]

NOPE.

[Tunnelcat]

Not promising for the 'one person controller' is it? How about a fictional character?

[flip]

Not promising for the 'one person controller' is it? How about a fictional character?

LOL I feel this is ever so slighted, but I will respond nonetheless. If there was a character that held the attributes I described, then by all means, YES.

[Tunnelcat]

Don't feel slighted. I'm just curious if there is a fictional or movie character that would fit the role and who would it be if you had to make a choice? I can't think of any real life person that would fit the bill either. My choices might be the Tom Hanks character from the movie 'The Green Mile' for his compassion and strength, or the President from the movie 'Independence Day' for his conviction. I guess there's a lot of selection from fiction that's possible.

[flip]

Well, honestly I believe that person does exist in Jesus. He talked alot about complete control, but not in the same way as this thread. This thread does point out what his description of Heaven will be like though. Only without the oppressiveness that is always assumed when you talk about complete control.

His idea of complete control was one like Family. Where he is the head, and we are all his children. In that way, everything that he owns we own too. Since he is in complete control, then we will be also.

I won't debate whether this is true or not, thats up to the individual. I will say it doesn't sound like a bad deal though.

At the moment I can't really think of anyone else, real or fictional, I'd rather have complete control over myself but myself. I don't like the idea of being subject to anyone else.

[Alter-Fox]

I'm gonna vote for Roid

X2

[Spidey]

I'm gonna vote for Roid

X2

Looks like someone already controls your minds.

I will do what Simon says.

[TIGERassault]

We are watching Fox.

[Wings]

In the age of the Ancient Greeks, the greatest fear of the West was tyranny from the East. Well, now in 2008, tyranny has been conquered by democracy, and that problem has faded away. However, I would like to point out that technology is creating a new tyranny that is far more powerful than totalitarianism, Complete Control (well, over the body and mind, not the soul). It is inevitable that technology will allow us to connect our minds to the computer world. It is inevitable that schools will be replaced with downloads to the brain. And it is also inevitable that this will lead to everyone being so intelligent that anyone can hack the learning setup and brainwash everyone to become one's slaves. Everyone's bodies and minds will belong to one person. It is only a matter of time. So instead of focusing this discussion on how to avoid this event, as it is merely a matter of time as the hacking age of today proves time and time again with piracy, let us focus on who you would prefer to have Complete Control, be it yourself, someone you know, or a crazy hacker.

Do you even care?
Do you want the one who has Complete Control to have it for power, or so that someone else doesn't abuse power?
If someone can handle the power of Complete Control, who do you think it is, who do you think is incorruptable by Complete Control?
Or do you think this event will mean the doom of humanity?

Dude, you're so weird. haha