You must service Obama...or else?

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:51 pm

http://change.gov/americaserves/

America Serves

The Obama Administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation’s challenges. President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps. Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year. Obama will encourage retiring Americans to serve by improving programs available for individuals over age 55, while at the same time promoting youth programs such as Youth Build and Head Start.

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So you school kids will be rewarded with extra work...I wonder what happens if you refuse?

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:12 pm

\"Community Service\" = \"ugh, extra work\" to you?

(Not saying I necessarily support legislation of mandatory service, but I find it odd you are characterizing community service as something akin to \"busy work\".)

Palzon · Post by **Palzon** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:33 pm

Just stop and think about it. Middle school and high school are souped up daycare for most children. I thought so when i was there.

It's not like he's asking people to fetch his laundry or wash his car. He's asking people to give back to their own community. This seems like a good idea. Help the community. Help build character for the students.

You have a problem with this? Must be a slow news day.

Jesus Freak · Post by **Jesus Freak** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:39 pm

What if I don't do my 100 hours of community service?

Voluntary community service to get funding for college is one thing. Mandatory community service is another...

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:43 pm

Calling on people to work for the country is just fine with me, but requiring community service is a direct breach of the constitution. (if you require work to pay back a student loan, that’s fine as well)

It’s funny how someone can advocate compelled service, but we can’t even require people to work for their welfare checks.

There is a HUGE pool of idle hands out there, that could be put to work in the community, but the ACLU has sued on behalf of them, claiming you can’t require work for welfare.

I hope I’m not seeing a pattern here, the same kind of thing once advocated by conservatives, and rejected off hand, will now be ok because Obama has suggested them.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:57 pm

again with the obama ooga booga... it's really getting tiresome.

To counter:
\"Here's how it would work. Young people will know that between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five, the nation will enlist them for three months of civilian service. They'll be asked to report for three months of basic civil defense training in their state or community, where they will learn what to do in the event of biochemical, nuclear or conventional attack; how to assist others in an evacuation; how to respond when a levee breaks or we're hit by a natural disaster. These young people will be available to address their communities' most pressing needs.\"

http://www.examiner.com/x-536-Civil-Lib ... al-service

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:22 pm

And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country.

It was a good speech then and those sentiments still have a lot of relevance today. Can't get too upset with a guy (Obama) trying to take the high road and bring everyone along with him....

If you really want to get pissed off at the guy just wait, a number of legitimate opportunities will arise and if they don't...well, be happy, cause it will be all good!

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:38 pm

Back in 68 I got called to mandatory public service. Funny back then the left wasn't to keen on public service. Called all of us that were doing public service a lot of bad names. So screw you Obama. I did my \"service\".

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:48 pm

Here is the key quote from that website.

“Rep. Rahm Emanuel wants to force people 18 to 25 to labor for the government.”

Jesus Freak · Post by **Jesus Freak** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:50 pm

I thought I could get out of community service by being a good boy... you know, no tickets, no drugs, etc.

Ah well. I don't think anything Obama does will kill me.

Genghis · Post by **Genghis** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:09 pm

Yeah, Woody, you did good (really). The tough thing is your public service was more likely to cause death (your own and others') than the kind Obama might be proposing.

Also, it'll be nothing compared to the Israeli's public service.

After the election, a friend of mine said \"well, it's time to put our money where out mouth is.\" Meaning if we really want to improve our country, we'll probably have to contribute at a grass roots level and out of our own pockets. I think I'm okay with that; in the overall order of things on this planet, I'm one of the fortunate ones.

Although I'm not sure about the mandatory part; we'll see if that happens there...

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:25 pm

Didn't anyone read Ferno's link? Do you think \"forcing\" kids to learn basic civil defense, among other things, is a bad idea?

I do community service all the time. Town parks, concerts, senior home, charity events, and other stuff. I had to learn CPR and how to save a person from drowning instead of running home to play Halo.

This thanksgiving, while some of you will be with family, some friends and I will be helping with thanksgiving dinner at my church's charity kitchen. I refuse any payment and any small amount I'm given I usually give to my church.

The Obama haters here and their crew have to stop. You sound ridiculous.

Bettina

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:33 pm

I guess you could call them \"couch politicians\"..

The title is quite misleading BTW. You wouldn't serve Obama, you would serve your country/community.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:35 pm

How to respond to a nuclear attack? Bend over and kiss your ass goodbye (if you aren't instantly vaporized that is)?

Kiran · Post by **Kiran** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:58 pm

I wouldn't jump the gun on the whole \"required x number of hours community work to serve America\" thing. I'm a bit skeptical about retired individuals having to do work too, but I am interested in seeing what plans he has for this project.

It's almost like any other project-usually when a natural disaster is involved such as tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes. You're more or less forced to do some sort of community work- to support and stabilize your family and home (such as serving America in Obama's case).

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:59 pm

The federal government needs to stay out of affairs that should be state or even more locally administrated, like education, which has failed.

This all comes back to Barack Obama's socialist ideology. Mandated work without compensation? You guys don't see a problem with that? When are we all going to be required to give to charity? Then we can get all the benefits of that too!

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:07 pm

People, be ready for anything that comes out of this administration to be acceptable, they’re in love.

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:17 pm

Just more Obama hating....

And Thorne... in ref to not getting paid for your charity work... I think next time you kneel in front of that cross you take a good look at the person nailed to it and what He thought He was doing at no cost to you.

Bee

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:36 pm

I'm still wondering what is meant by \"required.\" What're the penalties for not doing service? Not getting hired (like military registration)? Not being able to collect social security? What're the consequences?

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:41 pm

You're regrettably naive, Bet. I've got nothing against charity.

Bettina wrote:Just more Obama hating....

Give me a break.

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:09 pm

I think requiring people in High school and middle school to do community service is a damn good thing.

Of the college years I am assuming he is refereing to requiring it in scholorship programs.

We will see, but we should stop the outrage until we know what there is to actually be outraged about.

dissent · Post by **dissent** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:55 pm

hmmm.......

Emanuel's plan (per Ferno's link) says that they will be asked to report for \"training\". This is likely to be of rather limited value; some will be highly motivated (and be good students), many will be average students, and some will be completely indifferent to the training (poor students). The good students might be of some value for further training. However, the training would need to be refreshed at intervals if it were to be of any value in an actual emergency scenario. Otherwise this sounds like it could result in just a giant feel-good program with significant expenditure for organization and planning with very little actual return in valuable output.

Now if someone wanted to provide incentives for young people (tuition credits, job placement assistance, job training, other incentives(?)) to get these young folk to want to enlist for their public service requirement, then you might be able to expect a more motivated corps of volunteers who would be able to give you more bang for each investment buck.

If the term is a simple three months, then they should stick to splitting folk up into groups, giving the very limited training for very specific goals, and then letting the trainees go out and do some actual service work. Spending three months on training for ten different tasks will get less output than limiting training to one set of tasks and then actual service on those tasks.

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:12 am

Political re-education.

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:22 am

AHA!

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article ... or_a_Draft

Obama Quietly Revokes His Plan for a Draft

Politics | Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 8:49:23 pm PST

Earlier today we posted about Barack Obama’s plan to require community service from middle school, high school, and college students. This is how it read at the time:

The Obama Administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation’s challenges. President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps. Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year. Obama will encourage retiring Americans to serve by improving programs available for individuals over age 55, while at the same time promoting youth programs such as Youth Build and Head Start.

Lo and behold. Tonight, after the plan was publicized, Obama has quietly thrown that “requirement” part down the memory hole: America Serves.

The Obama Administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation’s challenges. President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps. Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by setting a goal that all middle school and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year and by developing a plan so that all college students who conduct 100 hours of community service receive a universal and fully refundable tax credit ensuring that the first $4,000 of their college education is completely free. Obama will encourage retiring Americans to serve by improving programs available for individuals over age 55, while at the same time promoting youth programs such as Youth Build and Head Start.

Change!

UPDATE at 11/7/08 9:36:53 pm:

They’re going through the site and cleaning up the places where it said “require community service,” but they missed a spot on this page: Service | Change.gov.

Require 100 Hours of Service in College: Obama and Biden will establish a new American Opportunity Tax Credit that is worth $4,000 a year in exchange for 100 hours of public service a year.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:59 am

LGF.

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA.. that's the most biased site out there! they'll try and dig up the smallest speck of dirt and make a mountain out of it

HAHAHAHA. too funny.

Kiran · Post by **Kiran** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:32 am

People make mistakes. Just because he fixes something \"quietly\" and not publicize the change doesn't make him a bad guy.

Again, community service to improve America isn't a bad idea. We are in badly need of improvements after for so long taking our focus on international affairs.

Pandora · Post by **Pandora** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:38 am

dissent wrote:Now if someone wanted to provide incentives for young people (tuition credits, job placement assistance, job training, other incentives(?)) to get these young folk to want to enlist for their public service requirement, then you might be able to expect a more motivated corps of volunteers who would be able to give you more bang for each investment buck.

obama-biden wrote:Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by setting a goal that all middle school and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year and by developing a plan so that all college students who conduct 100 hours of community service receive a universal and fully refundable tax credit ensuring that the first $4,000 of their college education is completely free.

Great minds think alike?

dissent · Post by **dissent** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:30 am

Pandora wrote:Great minds think alike?

Maybe.

I want to see how the plan would be structured. 100 hours of community service is only twelve and a half regular work days. And at $40 per hour ($4000/100) the compensation rate sounds a bit high to me. Part of the compensation for community service should be the fact that you feel good about serving your community, not just that your getting a check for it. And the type of service work should go to basic community needs and steer clear of any one groups political motivations. If oversight is poor, this could easily become somebody's local private political racket.

Pandora · Post by **Pandora** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:58 am

I completely agree. I like the general idea, but the particulars seem a bit weird to me so far. I hope it becomes clearer when the scheme becomes fully fleshed out.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:07 am

Kiran wrote:People make mistakes. Just because he fixes something "quietly" and not publicize the change doesn't make him a bad guy.

Again, community service to improve America isn't a bad idea. We are in badly need of improvements after for so long taking our focus on international affairs.

I wonder how much the Obama win would of been "fixed" if the media had done their job and publicized everything it knew about Obama.

As to public service, voluntary service is a wonderful thing. If Obama wants to expand things like the peace corp into a more encompassing program so more people can partake "If They Want To", then cool.

And Bet, we don't hate Obama. We just don't like his proposed agendas. Perhaps once the realities of being the leader of the most powerful nation in the world stares him in the eye, he might turn out to be a good president. Don't fall into the trap that criticism = hate (or racism). Unlike the Bush haters, I suspect we on the conservative side will post more constructively based on deeds, than misguided emotions.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:12 am

These things are called “test baloons”, be sure and pop them all.

And buy guns….lots of guns.

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:01 pm

Jesus Freak wrote:What if I don't do my 100 hours of community service?

No soup for you!

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:35 pm

Sorry Spidey, the correct term is \"Trial Balloon.\" ;P

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:43 pm

Since when did you become a semantics Nazi?

MD-1118 · Post by **MD-1118** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:55 pm

Bet51987 wrote:Do you think "forcing" kids to learn basic civil defense, among other things, is a bad idea?

Yes, Bet, I do. I don't think anyone should be "forced" to do anything.

Bet51987 wrote:I do community service all the time. Town parks, concerts, senior home, charity events, and other stuff. I had to learn CPR and how to save a person from drowning instead of running home to play Halo.

Yes, and I was an Awanas leader for a few months not long ago. I also pick up litter along the side of the road and help elderly people take care of their homes and yards. I choose to do it, though. The instant someone tells me I have to do it, they can kiss my ass.

Bet51987 wrote:This thanksgiving, while some of you will be with family, some friends and I will be helping with thanksgiving dinner at my church's charity kitchen. I refuse any payment and any small amount I'm given I usually give to my church.

This Thanksgiving, while you and your friends are helping at your church's charity kitchen, I will most likely be alone, away from my family while they go out of state to visit relatives. I'll just stay here by myself and continue helping old people and cleaning litter off the streets. Oh, and I don't ask for payment either. I will eat a small meal on occasion, however.

Bet51987 wrote:The Obama haters here and their crew have to stop. You sound ridiculous.

Bettina

I can't speak for the others here, but my preacher dad has a saying Thorne will probably relate with easily: "Hate the sin, not the sinner." I'm not saying Obama's an evil person, although by the Bible's account everyone is a sinner. What I am saying is that while his plans make me want to pull a Sarah Connor, I have nothing against the man himself. I don't know him, so how can I judge him?

MD-1118 · Post by **MD-1118** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:56 pm

MD-1118 · Post by **MD-1118** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:58 pm

MD-1118 · Post by **MD-1118** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:00 pm

!#@$^#& stupid computer and its damn errors...

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:20 am

I do have a problem with the federal government mandating such community service.

I don't have a a problem with Obama suggesting that school districts implement community service as part of their graduation criteria.

Basically, I think it should be the local government's (read: district or board of trustees) jurisdiction. It's not a bad idea, but it sets a really bad precedent to try to legislate/enforce it at a national level.

Hattrick · Post by **Hattrick** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:16 am

Doing community service is a rewarding endevour that I believe everyone should do at least once, Voluntarily. I do not believe government should be forcing people to do it.

This is one of those areas that Parents need to be at the helm and showing their children how rewarding doing community service can be. With me it was watching my mom volunteer working with the elderly( When in Jr high I volunteered at a local elderly care facility)Then later she volunteered to be a 4-H leader ( I followed suit when the occaision arose)The I watched as she donated Hogs we raised to local charities such as shelters and meals on wheels for the elderly ( Now that i run the farm I continue to do the same) I also donate club pigs to children whose families cannot afford to be involved in 4-H and have set it up where they are given Free feed for their project. Later the youth sells the hog at fair and can make a significant amount of money for the Family.
I Did/do all of this voluntarily because I was taught by my parents it's the right thing to do and not because a government at any level said I have to.

Most people who can, will do some sort of community service to give back to a community that they have been a part of. They just want to do it on their own terms. Not because it was mandated by a government.

Hate Obama? No, I really don't. I do not agree with him being president. I do not agree with his economic policy ( or lack thereof according to his speech last Friday) Nor Do I like the fact that he has no experience in foriegn policy and has no real track record to speak of except for \"Motivating people\". But hate him? No, No I don't. I don't think I'd welcome him into my house for a Beer, But then again There are millions of people I don't hate that fall into that catagory.

BTW, this thanksgiving I will be enjoying a nice meal with my family whom which I love. I will not feel a bit of remorse for doing so as I am comfortable with the fact that I do my share of community service without the prodding of someone else.

You must service Obama...or else?

You must service Obama...or else?

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