Miner Wars Alpha in-game video with 6DOF

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:43 pm

Spidey wrote:Better to use “science fiction” physics…remember the Pyro defies gravity.

seriously.
its a game. drop it.

Aus-RED-5 · Post by **Aus-RED-5** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:48 pm

x2 Duper!

I really don't care how they do the physics.

I'd like to see joystick support. That's the main thing for me.

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:57 pm

It would really be nice to plug in some obscure controller and have it work. Make everything that can use a slider have one; that includes x, y, or even z joystick controls (Cad users have this thing...). There's tons of new gadgets out there that would work great with this game if it doesn't require hacking. Leave it to the user to decide what button, slider, and stick does what...

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:30 am

Duper wrote:
Spidey wrote:Better to use “science fiction” physics…remember the Pyro defies gravity.
seriously.
its a game. drop it.

Why, the man is here picking our brains, is he not?

Game physics happen to be a very important part of the game, and in a fantasy game I would expect to have fantasy physics. Like lasers that move real slow…

I do agree it’s up the the game maker…but, he is here looking for opinions. Right?

AlphaDoG · Post by **AlphaDoG** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:04 am

Spidey wrote:
Duper wrote:
Spidey wrote:Better to use “science fiction” physics…remember the Pyro defies gravity.
seriously.
its a game. drop it.
Why, the man is here picking our brains, is he not?

Game physics happen to be a very important part of the game, and in a fantasy game I would expect to have fantasy physics. Like lasers that move real slow…

I do agree it’s up the the game maker…but, he is here looking for opinions. Right?

Lasers are fast?

roid · Post by **roid** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:29 am

well i'm just sayin, coz all the videos so far show it as an OUTDOOR game and all that. Newtonian physics could be a posability, it's been done in games before - like iWar2

Kilarin · Post by **Kilarin** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:50 am

Wow! This game looks AWESOME!

And my vote is for real physics. looks fantastic.

Templeton · Post by **Templeton** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:08 pm

OK, a little clarification.

The intent is that you visit their website at www.minerwars.com and then register with their forum. That is where the ideas and such are submitted.

Talking things out in this thread is fine, but dont expect them to troll all the forums and such for suggestions.

Understand everyone has busy lives, and another forum/website may not be worth it. However, given the fact of how far they are from the ground up and that they are opening up development to a community I figured at least a handful of people would jump in and contribute.

I dont really have any expertise that would be of any use, I just like playing the games. Just want to have a new 6DOF game to play with a large group of people.

Templeton · Post by **Templeton** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:14 pm

One other thing. Even if you dont contribute on their forums, spread the word about the game within the community to others that may not frequent this forum. In games, clans, other forums, etc.... Just get others to check out what they have to date and if it peaks their interest they will find out how to help at some point.

Just spread the word to check out the website www.minerwars.com and and that will help more than you know. THey even have a medal system where you can get a url link to post and get credit for click thrus. Easy enough...

DarkHorse · Post by **DarkHorse** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:38 am

Joystick support has been worked into other programs that didn't initially support it. Modern joysticks can map onto mouse axes and key buttons anyway.

Darghan · Post by **Darghan** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:56 pm

so just to clarify

I see that you old timers here are almost having a hearth attack of joystick talk

Joystick was the number one selection for Descent. Mouse was unplayable.

We made it in a way that you will be able to use joystick but you will be far better off with mouse because these days the young PC gamers just dont have Joysticks anymore

.

You will see yourselves when you touch the controls it just feels very natural.

Yes please do come and register on our website we really need as much support as we can get.

AlphaDoG · Post by **AlphaDoG** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:35 pm

Ack, we've been trolled!

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:19 pm

Actually, mouse became playable, but even on the best implementations of D1/2/probably 3, it is probably at a slight disadvantage to the joystick (it's close enough for opinions to be able to differ, conceivably).

Having the game optimised for a mouse would be handy, though; I don't have a joystick any more either. I could get one if I wanted to, but games that really use them are so few and far between that there just hasn't been any point for years.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:39 pm

actually, I won't bother. Have fun with the game.

NUMBERZero · Post by **NUMBERZero** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:16 am

Darghan wrote:so just to clarify I see that you old timers here are almost having a hearth attack of joystick talk

Joystick was the number one selection for Descent. Mouse was unplayable.

We made it in a way that you will be able to use joystick but you will be far better off with mouse because these days the young PC gamers just dont have Joysticks anymore .

I appear to have almost died from a heart attack.

JS is the number 1 thing to use but I've seen quite a bit who use mouse, but not as many as the people who use a JS. A lot of the German pilots use it. I tried playing mouse for a little while. I compaired it to playing with my 360 controller. Mouse came out on top, but I'll take the JS any day.

Be able to use the JS? That saved me from my heart attack.

I really do hope that this game works out in the end no matter what happens.

Templeton · Post by **Templeton** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:01 am

OK, gotta believe these guys have given a little thought to the controls and how that will affect game play and the success of the game overall.

Honestly, I have used Joystick/Controller for just about every game I have ever played. Will be a complete departure if I have to change to mouse/keyboard.

With that being said, if the game turns out as I anticipate it could, I will figure a way to make the adjustment. If it doesnt, then I probably would not play it either way.

With that being said, give the game a chance before everyone writes it off because they dont have \"newtonian physics\" or because the \"lasers are slow\" or \"no doors for ambushes\". Even if it does not support Joystick, you can at least wait until the final product, then give the demo a try (assuming there will be a demo) and if you like it enough you will find those objections are not that big of a deal overall.

This is a ground floor opportunity for those of you who have been talking about a new game for sometime. Everyone has an opportunity to contribute to the development so that there is the possibility of having certain aspects included that will make this game as close to the game we all love.

There are certain aspects of the game that are beyond change (or I assume so if they are apart of the engine) like physics and navigation. If those are deal breakers in their current form, then so beit.

For me, the positives of this game so far vastly out number the negatives. So Im in regardless.....

Darghan · Post by **Darghan** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:22 am

On slow lasers: no lasers for our game

its set in the near future. I dont believe energetic weapons will be used for destruction seeing the current state of things. On them being slow? Heck they are slow in every game I know and I find it hard to believe in \"them\". We are using current very upgraded weaponry.
On physics: currently we have a good physics engine we like to think its balanced towards reality vs fun
On doors: there will be doors howgh

)

Xamindar · Post by **Xamindar** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:56 am

Looks great! Is it PC only? Or will it be on PS3 too? Either way, I'll probably get it no matter which!

AlphaDoG · Post by **AlphaDoG** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:31 pm

Visit the web site.

Has all platforms listed.

I for one will play the hell out of it.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:01 pm

Darghan wrote:We made it in a way that you will be able to use joystick but you will be far better off with mouse...

Does this mean it will be 'mouselook' (i.e. no rotational-speed restrictions, "spin around as fast as your mouse can move")?

[Personally, I hope not. Good Descent-style dogfights don't happen in mouselook dynamics. Shattered Horizon is a good example; you can't dogfight there, close combat just becomes a contest of who can "spin 'n aim" fastest.]

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:26 pm

READ THIS!!

Foil wrote:
Darghan wrote:We made it in a way that you will be able to use joystick but you will be far better off with mouse...
Does this mean it will be 'mouselook' (i.e. no rotational-speed restrictions, "spin around as fast as your mouse can move")?

[Personally, I hope not. Good Descent-style dogfights don't happen in mouselook dynamics. Shattered Horizon is a good example; you can't dogfight there, close combat just becomes a contest of who can "spin 'n aim" fastest.]

x2

Gekko71 · Post by **Gekko71** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:56 pm

Isaac wrote:READ THIS!!
Foil wrote:
Darghan wrote:We made it in a way that you will be able to use joystick but you will be far better off with mouse...
Does this mean it will be 'mouselook' (i.e. no rotational-speed restrictions, "spin around as fast as your mouse can move")?

[Personally, I hope not. Good Descent-style dogfights don't happen in mouselook dynamics. Shattered Horizon is a good example; you can't dogfight there, close combat just becomes a contest of who can "spin 'n aim" fastest.]
x2

X3 - what he said.

NUMBERZero · Post by **NUMBERZero** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:15 pm

Gekko71 wrote:
Isaac wrote:READ THIS!!
Foil wrote:
Darghan wrote:We made it in a way that you will be able to use joystick but you will be far better off with mouse...
Does this mean it will be 'mouselook' (i.e. no rotational-speed restrictions, "spin around as fast as your mouse can move")?

[Personally, I hope not. Good Descent-style dogfights don't happen in mouselook dynamics. Shattered Horizon is a good example; you can't dogfight there, close combat just becomes a contest of who can "spin 'n aim" fastest.]
x2
X3 - what he said.

X4

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:34 pm

Unlimited speed mouse-look kind of breaks the mind when you're talking about machines. Hence why Mechwarrior didn't have it.

It doesn't remove all of Descent dogfighting unless the weapons are all hitscan, but turning speed does seem to have a significant effect on it...

AlphaDoG · Post by **AlphaDoG** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:24 pm

My mind is already broke. Ask them via their website?

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:32 pm

AlphaDoG wrote:My mind is already broke. Ask them via their website?

And link them to this thread...

AlphaDoG · Post by **AlphaDoG** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:36 pm

Isaac wrote:
AlphaDoG wrote:My mind is already broke. Ask them via their website?
And link them to this thread...

We have already been trolled by one of the developers. What more do you want from me?

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:41 pm

AlphaDoG wrote:
Isaac wrote:
AlphaDoG wrote:My mind is already broke. Ask them via their website?
And link them to this thread...
We have already been trolled by one of the developers. What more do you want from me?

Grab a bunch of us to make a 6dof game and make millions... to be honest..

NUMBERZero · Post by **NUMBERZero** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:26 am

The ODFis already on the job with that.

Sirius! You broke the chain!

I would go and link them to this thread, but would that be a good idea?

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:47 am

NUMBERZero wrote:The ODFis already on the job with that.

They are!

Darghan · Post by **Darghan** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:18 am

Turning: will have limitations to it since we are also going to be applying the game to Xbox360 and there will be different ships with different turning speeds. Joystick will still be applied. But as I told you before guys the problem these days is that many gamers on PC dont have joys. That is statistics and were not Activision or Ubisoft that can push people to buy a periferial to be able to play a game properly.

Spin and Aim fastest is a viable option for FPS. Not for space combat or any sim type game. What would be the point of upgrading equipment then?

Gekko71 · Post by **Gekko71** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:51 pm

Darghan wrote:Turning: will have limitations to it since we are also going to be applying the game to Xbox360 and there will be different ships with different turning speeds. Joystick will still be applied. But as I told you before guys the problem these days is that many gamers on PC dont have joys. That is statistics and were not Activision or Ubisoft that can push people to buy a periferial to be able to play a game properly.

Spin and Aim fastest is a viable option for FPS. Not for space combat or any sim type game. What would be the point of upgrading equipment then?

Glad to hear that you're implementing joystick support. You're right in saying that most players don't have/use joysticks and you can't force them to buy them - I didn't have one when I first started playing descent either. I quickly realised the difficulty in moving in 3D with a controller that only moves in 2D. But the game was so damn fun and addictive that I went and bought a stick in order to embrace the challenge of the game. Not playing the game was not an option for me, neither was continuing with a mouse/keyboard setup.

Don't underestimate people's willingness to invest money into the activities they enjoy the most.

Your game has joystick support, true 6DOF, tri-chording, dogfighting weapons and mouselook deactivated. Looks like I might be buying a copy.

(PS - The online server setup is a BIG unknown though. Where will you be basing your game servers? Lag may be a big problem given the amount of game data that will be flying back and forth with destructable environments)

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:59 pm

Darghan wrote:Turning: will have limitations ... different ships with different turning speeds.

Good to hear you're not implementing mouse-look!

But I still want to know: What do you mean by, "you will be far better off with mouse"? Is there something players cannot do with joystick?

Floyd · Post by **Floyd** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:19 pm

i'm with Gecko. you don't need to force people to buy a joystick, they will get it on their own, as long as joystick is an option and well implemented

everything sounds good so far, i'm looking forward to a demo

Darghan · Post by **Darghan** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:03 pm

Foil - in this game its important to aim very carefully thats why I think youre better off with mouse. OFC some people will use JS anyway.

Trichording - implemented

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:26 pm

I definetely hope this game makes it. I'm a mouser anyway (and I don't use mouselook).

Gekko71 · Post by **Gekko71** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:35 pm

Darghan wrote:Foil - in this game its important to aim very carefully thats why I think youre better off with mouse. OFC some people will use JS anyway.

Trichording - implemented

...out of curiosity, has anyone here *ever* had the time in the middle of an anarchy match to 'aim carefully'?

Sorry Darghan, maybe it's just me, but in my experience aiming carfully is not an option in multi-player 6DOF combat (unless you're including some sort of time-warping feature - looks to me like those ships move at roughly the same speed as a pyro so it may be necessary). Taken at a purely surface level, "aiming carefully" suggests to me the idea of "camping and sniping".

Then again, the game isn't finished yet, so who am I to comment on fight dynamics that don't exist yet?

NUMBERZero · Post by **NUMBERZero** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:28 am

I'm pretty sure that in the future, everyone will be using a mouse and keyboard to be piloting their million+ dollar personal spaceship.

News of being able to use the JS has salvaged my interest.

I agree with Gekko. I don't aim precisely. I've never really felt the need to. I usually just eyeball it and I hit my mark anyway, even with the MD at extreme ranges and while I am moving around.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:54 am

I would actually expect said spaceships to be flown entirely by AI. Barring that, voice commands/neural interfaces. Joysticks are pretty clumsy things in comparison.

Xamindar · Post by **Xamindar** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:06 am

Sirius wrote:I would actually expect said spaceships to be flown entirely by AI. Barring that, voice commands/neural interfaces. Joysticks are pretty clumsy things in comparison.

Like Star Trek?
"Take evasive maneuvers!"
That's pretty much why I never wanted to try a Star Trek game.

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