Moral equivalence and \"islamophobia\"

[Nightshade]

A classic example of how the left tries to throw up
the moral equivalence of islam vs other religions and
the \"innate\" victimhood of muslims in america and
the west.

It is almost a pathological need to suicide the western
secular society many leftists grew up in just to
assuage an imagined \"injustice\" done to, what is in
reality, a virulently violent and supremacist ideology.
An ideology which is alien and hostile to western
secular and democratic values.

[Will Robinson]

She owned him with logic and truth and he is so full of prejudice and liberal ideology that I think he really believes the bull★■◆● he was saying. It was funny, in a sad way, to watch his reaction when she said 'you can come from nothing to america and end up rich and powerful'....he laughs at that and seemed to sincerely think it was not just untrue but an outrageous statement to make! who the F is he anyway...some Canadian Katie Couric I'm guessing.

He's what is known to the politicians on the left as a useful tool. To me he's just a tool, not a particularly sharp or useful one, just a tool.

[Tunnelcat]

Where do you get the 'idea' that the left gives Islam some moral equivalency over other religions? It's definitely not a religion I would want to live under nor allow to decide the laws of this land. It isn't even close in ideology to our western values. Besides, most red-blooded gun-toting Americans would be up in arms if someone tried to put ANY Sharia Law in place and I'd be out there joining them! There's NO WAY that Islamic or Sharia Law would EVER become the law of OUR land, so why all this fear mongering? This is just another tactic for one group of people to get power over another. Like Will said, a blunt tool.

However, as a mainstream religion, they have the right in this country to practice their religion whenever and wherever they want to, and be free from persecution or intolerance. Freedom of religion is supposed to be a fundamental right. That's what makes this country great. If one group takes away another religion's right to practice, it won't be long before YOUR religion is next, all because that basic right was chipped away. Last I heard, we are not a Christian Theocracy! As much as we despise their religion, we can at least acknowledge their right to practice it amongst themselves. The left is only supporting their RIGHT to practice their religion. It's not a tacit APPROVAL of said religion.

[woodchip]

Even more curious, seeing as how the left downplays the value religion, that they would somehow want to go out of their way to defend Islam. Perhaps we need more extremist christians to become vocal, burn a few heretics at the stake, and maybe the libs will become more caring about those of the christian faith.

[Will Robinson]

Where do you get the 'idea' that the left gives Islam some moral equivalency over other religions? It's definitely not a religion I would want to live under nor allow to decide the laws of this land. It isn't even close in ideology to our western values. Besides, most red-blooded gun-toting Americans would be up in arms if someone tried to put ANY Sharia Law in place and I'd be out there joining them! There's NO WAY that Islamic or Sharia Law would EVER become the law of OUR land, so why all this fear mongering? This is just another tactic for one group of people to get power over another. Like Will said, a blunt tool.

However, as a mainstream religion, they have the right in this country to practice their religion whenever and wherever they want to, and be free from persecution or intolerance. Freedom of religion is supposed to be a fundamental right. That's what makes this country great. If one group takes away another religion's right to practice, it won't be long before YOUR religion is next, all because that basic right was chipped away. Last I heard, we are not a Christian Theocracy! As much as we despise their religion, we can at least acknowledge their right to practice it amongst themselves. The left is only supporting their RIGHT to practice their religion. It's not a tacit APPROVAL of said religion.

This wasn't about ground zero mosque. You didn't watch the video or you would know that many of the things you just claimed about the left are not being practiced by the tool in the video...
He's an example of the lefty's asserting that a Christian theocracy is in effect in power here and he does suggest the equivalence between religions to the guest etc. etc. etc.
Or, perhaps you did watch it and you are just so accustomed to hearing those things and accepting them that you didn't even notice

[Isaac]

Besides, most red-blooded gun-toting Americans would be up in arms if someone tried to put ANY Sharia Law in place and I'd be out there joining them!

I thought I read something about a Sharia court or something here in Texas...

[woodchip]

The Grand Ayatollah er Imam in charge says Sharia law is 90% compatible with the US constitution. Does anyone here NOT think these ground zero mosque people are not going to try to implement Sharia law in this country?

[Ferno]

and how exactly are they going to accomplish it?

[Isaac]

Does anyone here NOT think these ground zero mosque people are not going to try to implement Sharia law in this country?

Yeah, and if we resist I'm sure they'll continue complaining about how we don't understand them...

[null0010]

The Grand Ayatollah er Imam in charge says Sharia law is 90% compatible with the US constitution. Does anyone here NOT think these ground zero mosque people are not going to try to implement Sharia law in this country?

Explain to me how in the lemon scented hell owning a property in lower Manhattan gives a group the political power to write and pass laws?

[Spidey]

Become a huge real estate tycoon, and buy all of the politicians?

[flip]

and how exactly are they going to accomplish it?

The same way the Christians did, by becoming the majority. I also thought it was interesting that the Imam said muslims are commanded by the Koran to submit to secular law as long as they were the minority.

[woodchip]

and how exactly are they going to accomplish it?

By starting a controversial project.

By getting enormous amounts of air time.

By using the PC crowd's fear of offending Muslims.

By introducing propagandized proclamations that Sharia law is not really bad.

By chipping away at local communities to have them allow some of the more benign aspects of Sharia law.

By indoctrinating people into thinking Sharia law will only be for Muslims.

By ultimately gaining enough political power to where they can fully codify Sharia law into our legal system.

The Netherlands come to mind as a example.

[Tunnelcat]

This wasn't about ground zero mosque. You didn't watch the video or you would know that many of the things you just claimed about the left are not being practiced by the tool in the video...
He's an example of the lefty's asserting that a Christian theocracy is in effect in power here and he does suggest the equivalence between religions to the guest etc. etc. etc.
Or, perhaps you did watch it and you are just so accustomed to hearing those things and accepting them that you didn't even notice

I know that the video wasn't about the ground zero mosque. I was pointing out that lefties don't want to give or take rights from any ONE religion, whether they like those religions or not. In fact many lefties, me included, don't like Christianity, but we support their right to exist. It's when they seek power over others that it rubs us the wrong way.......

However, as for the assertion that a Christian Theocracy is coming, well lookie who just won her first Senate primary, miss 'you are a sinner if you have sex (or even think about sex) with YOURSELF Christine O'Donnell'! Next we'll have the Christian Anti-Masturbation Police! This crap is as "Christian values" in your face as all get out! When this craziness becomes law, then we'll have a Theocracy. Oh, and it will be an Aristocratic Theocracy too, whenever it comes to pass.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010 ... t-hits.php

Tell me that the Tea Party isn't being run by either a bunch of Christian Values or Christian Patriot Bigot nutcases! These idiots are actually winning in the primaries! I'm all for voting out the incumbents, but when all we get for alternative selections is THESE birdbrains, and they WIN, we're seriously screwed!

[AlphaDoG]

lol @ Talking points memo.

[flip]

TC, just quit having sex with yourself and you'll be alright

[Heretic]

OMG it's the end of the world because a Christian is running for office. Who happens to believe that Masturbation is bad for you. The world is going to fall out of space.

Can you get any more Chicken Little there TC

[null0010]

and how exactly are they going to accomplish it?

By ultimately gaining enough political power to where they can fully codify Sharia law into our legal system.

Well, tell them I wish them good luck with that, cuz it ain't happening.

[CUDA]

However, as for the assertion that a Christian Theocracy is coming, well lookie who just won her first Senate primary, miss 'you are a sinner if you have sex (or even think about sex) with YOURSELF Christine O'Donnell'! Next we'll have the Christian Anti-Masturbation Police! This crap is as "Christian values" in your face as all get out! When this craziness becomes law, then we'll have a Theocracy. Oh, and it will be an Aristocratic Theocracy too, whenever it comes to pass.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010 ... t-hits.php

Tell me that the Tea Party isn't being run by either a bunch of Christian Values or Christian Patriot Bigot nutcases! These idiots are actually winning in the primaries! I'm all for voting out the incumbents, but when all we get for alternative selections is THESE birdbrains, and they WIN, we're seriously screwed!

OMG

your joking right???? you cannot possibly be serious with that post.

does Paranoia run in your family??????

[Will Robinson]

Theocracy is when the rulers of the government implement religious law.
That isn't happening and if anything the implementation of law has been of an anti-religion bent filtering religion, primarily focusing on Christianity, out of any part of government institutions. So in spite of your claims there is no theocracy looming. The truth is Islam has a better chance of gaining any consideration from our government than Christianity does!

I remember when GW Bush was running for President people started talking theocracy and abortion rights even though GW's comments during the campaign was 'America isn't in favor of anti-abortion law and we won't be seeing it happen.'
Fast forward to the end of his presidency: no anti-abortion law, no theocracy, etc.
So the Chicken Little tag applies.

I think Obama, in only one year, has implemented much more of his religion, extreme liberalism, than Bush did with any kind of Christianity in eight.

[Isaac]

his religion, extreme liberalism

Do you have to drive a Prius to join that or will any Volkswagen van do?

[CUDA]

No it needs to be a Hybrid. that way you \"THINK\" your actually helping the environment, while in fact your harming it because of the costs to produce the vehicle.

[Bet51987]

.

[CUDA]

this must be a hormonal thing.

this country is much less a \"THEOCRACY\" now then when it was founded.

[Spidey]

Stem cell research was only restricted as far as government money was concerned, if stem cell research is the end all to all things great…why hasn’t the private sector jumped on it like white on rice?

Oh yea, I forgot…let the tax payers pay for all of the high risk research…like interferon, that was supposed to cure the common cold, and cancer.

[AlphaDoG]

Which wiki is heavy on religion for shaping a new world order?



Bee

LOL @ Wiki.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_ ... estling%29

[Stroodles]

You have to be kidding Will. Who put limitations on stem cell research? Who reversed them? Who tied the word "God" with the invasion of Iraq? Which women talks to God frequently before speeches? Which wiki is heavy on religion for shaping a new world order?

I could give you a lot more but you can google them yourself.

Your spot on TC. A religious wave is coming that will test separation of church and state...and it's not Islam.

Bee

Not funding doesn't count as limiting. And Obama is happy to spend money on ANYTHING, so supporting stem-cells is hardly a huge stance. "Tied the word God" -- Oh em gee the horror, he said god in relation to an event. And he even talks to God! The horror! What American does that!

As for the wiki thing, that litterally made me laugh. A random website says something dumb, therefore Bush made the U.S. A theocracy. Nice

[null0010]

As for the wiki thing, that litterally made me laugh. A random website says something dumb, therefore Bush made the U.S. A theocracy. Nice

reductio ad absurdum doesn't really work when it applies equally well to your own arguements

[Bet51987]

.

[CUDA]

YOUR POINT??

[Will Robinson]

...

You have to be kidding Will. Who put limitations on stem cell research? Who reversed them?

Answer: The U.S. Government, in both instances.
The same government you want me to believe is moving toward theocracy is the same government who's most recent act on your example was to overturn the pro-religious policy!

Just like alcohol was once illegal and now is legal. You don't refer to the government as a 'prohibitionist government' do you?
Just like Slavery was once legal and now it isn't. You don't refer to the government as slavers do you?
Well, get consistent...

So Who tied the word "God" with the invasion of Iraq? Which women talks to God frequently before speeches? Which wiki is heavy on religion for shaping a new world order?

You do know the difference between a wiki page and a law enforced by the government don't you? How about the difference between someones personal free speech or opinion and the law of the land?

If in your world theocracy means any vestige of religious artifact or mention then, in your world, you live under a theocracy. The rest of us don't.

I could give you a lot more but you can google them yourself.

Google what?!? Political figures mentioning God?
OK...be right back...
Wait, somethings wrong... you must have some kind of party specific filter on your computer because mine comes up with all sorts of politicians mentioning god.

On May 6, speaking to a Catholic conference, she said that her favorite word was "The Word" - referring to the Bible - and proceeded to argue its merits.

"It says it all for us. . . . And that Word is, we have to give voice to what that means in terms of public policy that would be in keeping with the values of the Word. The Word. Isn't it a beautiful word when you think of it? It just covers everything. The Word."

She went on, "Fill it in with anything you want. But, of course, we know it means: 'The Word was made flesh and dwelt amongst us.' And that's the great mystery of our faith. He will come again. He will come again. So, we have to make sure we're prepared to answer in this life, or otherwise, as to how we have measured up."

So did you mean to imply that the democrats AND the republicans are sweeping in a theocracy? Even if that was your intent I have to continue to disagree with you. I'm afraid your caught up in another of TC's rants.
You should know by now she leaves the truth far behind whenever she takes up the democrat party megaphone and starts a one woman pep rally for the liberal team.
You need to learn to separate her hyperbole and rhetoric from reality and limit your support for her to the bits of reality she leaves in.

With that in mind consider the fact pointed out to you above by Cuda regarding the level of religious content in our government at it's founding compared to now. the trend has been moving slow and steady away from religion for a couple hundred years. The level of Christian-phobia utilized by the left to scare you liberals has been in an upward climb in recent decades however.
Know which way the wind is blowing and you won't have to put blind faith the weather man.

[AlphaDoG]

Matthew 26:34 (also Luke 22:34, John 13:38)

"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "this very night, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times."

Mark 14:30

"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "today - yes, tonight - before the rooster crows twice you yourself will disown me three times."


Mark 14:66-72

While Peter was below in the courtyard, one of the servant girls of the high priest came by. When she saw Peter warming himself, she looked closely at him.

"You also were with that Nazarene, Jesus," she said.

But he denied it. "I don't know or understand what you're talking about," he said, and went out into the entryway.

When the servant girl saw him there, she said again to those standing around, "This fellow is one of them." Again he denied it.

After a little while, those standing near said to Peter, "Surely you are one of them, for you are a Galilean."

He began to call down curses on himself, and he swore to them, "I don't know this man you're talking about."

Immediately the rooster crowed the second time. Then Peter remembered the word Jesus had spoken to him: "Before the rooster crows twice you will disown me three times." And he broke down and wept.

[Heretic]

What about Obama?

Obama Invokes Jesus More Often Than Bush

BARACK OBAMA ON FAITH

[AlphaDoG]

Getting back on topic.

I wondered about the \"Moral Equivalency\" aspect of it all, so I did my own, yes my own, Giggle search. Sadly to say, there was nothing to giggle about.

So I did a Google search.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Moral+Equivalence+Rides+Again


That proved unproductive, so I

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Moral+Equivalence


#1 = http://spectator.org/archives/2005/06/1 ... ides-again

#2 = http://www.theaugeanstables.com/reflect ... d-draft/q/

SEPTEMBER 30, 2000 – THE BEGINNING OF THE SECOND INTIFADA

Nothing marks the early 21st century more harshly than suicide terrorists, a morally depraved practice of blowing oneself up amidst civilians (to be distinguished from suicide bombings that targeted military or political enemies. In the meantime, Israel’s policies in the Gaza strip and the West bank are described as “state terrorism”. Therefore, not only both the Palestinians and Israel are guilty of terrorism, but Palestinian terrorist acts are understood as a reaction of a defenseless people – “their only weapon” – against a far more powerful force. “What choice do they have?

I'm tired, do your own research.

[Isaac]

Giggle search

[Bet51987]

.

[flip]

My point earlier was that even a self professed 'moderate' muslim, The Imam, admits that his ultimate goal is to to eventually institute Sharia law. Which is in keeping with the Islamic faith. In contrast, I don't see any Christians pushing a standard of law that is specific to the Christian faith.
In that sense Islam is definitely more 'conquering focused' in which they want to change the laws of the land to be in total agreement with their own faith and has no respect for the American ideal of individual freedom of religion.

[Will Robinson]

...

You have to be kidding Will. Who put limitations on stem cell research? Who reversed them?

Answer: The U.S. Government, in both instances.

I want to get this right. The government that restricted stem cell research on religious grounds consisted of the same people that then reversed that decision?

Is that what you're saying?

The accusation you jumped in to support and give example of is that 'we are headed to a theocracy in this country'. You asked who put limits on stem cell research and who reversed them.
The answer is the same entity did both and in the context of proving we are headed into a theocracy your example does more to disprove the allegation than to sustain it. and, as was mentioned twice, the overall trend is even more proof of a movement away from even the mention of God in government making the accusation even more a cry of wolf.

You then went on to site trivial mentions of God by politicians and even a web page as proof we are headed to theocracy. Makes you seem to be a bit Taliban like in your zero tolerance of the incorrect mention of God by a politician and makes me wonder if you even know what a theocracy is?
So I showed you in a world where the mere mention of god by politicians is proof of pushing a theocracy you you need to look at your liberals as well because Nancy Pelosi, the third in line to the Presidency and current Speaker of the House of Representatives is out there talking about 'putting Gods word into public policy or lest we be judged'.
And that sure as hell is a lot worse than the examples you thought were so damning of the conservatives. At least it is if you are even slightly sincere about your point.

[null0010]

Both sides of this arguement are ridiculous. I can't believe that neither side can see this.

(Disclaimer: here end my viewpoints)

Reasons the country is sliding towards religious theocracy:
-A guy who wants to build a building said something about Sharia law once
-This one time, we banned stem cell research

Reasons the country isn't sliding towards religious theocracy:
-Muslims are just trying to integrate into society
-America is/was/should be a christian nation this is nothing new

(Disclaimer: these are not my viewpoints)

Ridiculous.

[Will Robinson]

Both sides of this arguement are ridiculous. I can't believe that neither side can see this.

(Disclaimer: here end my viewpoints)

Reasons the country is sliding towards religious theocracy:
-A guy who wants to build a building said something about Sharia law once
-This one time, we banned stem cell research

Reasons the country isn't sliding towards religious theocracy:
-Muslims are just trying to integrate into society
-America is/was/should be a christian nation this is nothing new

(Disclaimer: these are not my viewpoints)

Ridiculous.

You apparently have interviewed some people with a viewpoint not introduced into this conversation previously and now have made your case that the data only you have provided is ridiculous. I agree with your assesment.