Liberal vs Conservative

[Nightshade]

In many ways I've seen \"liberal think\" in action over the years no matter how little sense it makes.

Liberals will argue that conservative \"absolutes\" are judgemental and therefore \"evil\" in the overall scheme of things.

There are no \"black and white\" rights and wrongs, only \"gray areas.\"

Let’s compare how conservatives and liberals think:

Conservative Thinking

1. Good behavior leads to a better outcome.
2. Bad behavior leads to a worse outcome.

The people with the better outcome are the good guys, and the people with the worse outcome are the bad guys.

Liberal Thinking

1. If an outcome is better, then it was achieved by cheating.
2. If an outcome is worse, then it was achieved by victimization.

In the culture of poverty, or worse outcome, you can see that those in poverty have been victimized by racism and isolation. They are the good guys. It is the group of people with the better outcome who are the racists and isolationists. They are the bad guys.

The entire concept of good and bad gets flipped by liberals.

http://www.1913intel.com/2010/10/18/sch ... times-com/

[Gooberman]

Liberal Thinking

1. If an outcome is better,then it may have been achieved by hard work or dishonest actions. One should not make simple assumptions on how it was achieved, based soley on the fact that it was achieved.

2. If an outcome is worse, then it may have been achieved by lack of work ethic, or, the person may have been born into circumstances that truely test ones character. One should not make simple assumptions on ones character based on the situation they are in.


You are correct that liberals see alot of gray areas, only then, you post a quote that entirely puts the liberal philosophy back into a binary state.

In short: There is no spoon.

[Tunnelcat]

Conservative Thinking:

Sith

Liberal Thinking:

Jedi

[Spidey]

Conservative thinking…

Reality

Liberal thinking…

Hollywood

[null0010]

Conservative thinking: too complicated to define with a simple label or summary

Liberal thinking: too complicated to define with a simple label or summary

Getting old, people.

[CUDA]

Conservative thinking = Wisdom

Liberal thinking = they think???

[Ferno]

conservative thinking = retarded

liberal thinking = retarded


/thread.

[AlphaDoG]

conservative thinking = retarded

liberal thinking = retarded


/thread.

I'd have to guess Ferno has transcended.

[Stroodles]

conservative thinking = retarded

liberal thinking = retarded


/thread.

I'd have to guess Ferno has transcended.

If you insult both groups, you can take that position. Whether or not it's fitting is besides the point.

[Isaac]

I think this guy can explain it better

[flip]

Yeah it would be nice if people would quit joining groups and just judge each individual thing as it comes.

[Spidey]

Wow, you guys can take the fun out of anything.

[Avder]

This board is so ultraconservative it makes George Bush look liberal at times.

Extremes dont work.

Reality is somewhere between the God-fearing bible thumpers and the hippie communists.

One of the reasons I dont like participating on this bord as much as I used to is the fact that opposing viewpoints get shouted down, and people are afraid to own up when they are genuinely wrong.

Extremism and the inability to change a viewpoint and come to a middle ground is the main component that keeps government from actually doing its damned job. Republicans filibustering Democrats and Democrats filibustering Republicans is counterproductive. What needs to happen is a middle majority, composed of moderate democrats and republicans needs to come together and force crap through that the extreme left and extreme right doesn't want, because that's the stuff that's probably going to actually do stuff, which is exactly what the right and left doesn't want. Both the extreme left and extreme right want a deadlock because it benefits them both by giving them the opportunity to blame the other side and keep the status quo firmly held in place.

[Bet51987]

.

[AlphaDoG]

Actually there is one more classification that belongs here and that is \"progressive.\"

Look it up.

IMO the founding fathers set up our federal government in such a way as there would be little or no agreement between the 3 branches of government, thus keeping the federal government manageable by \"We the people.\"

However, around the turn of the last century, there came into being, the \"progressive.\" It's only since then that the federal government has become unmanageable by \"We the people.\"

Do your research if you doubt me.

[Spidey]

If this is a “right wing board” it’s only because the liberals have all wussed out. There used to be plenty of them here.

[Lothar]

it makes George Bush look liberal at times.

George Bush actually is liberal in a lot of ways. And Obama is conservative in a lot of ways. You will not find two back-to-back presidents from opposite parties who are more alike than the two of them.

It's frightening how much politicians and media have convinced people who liked Bush that Obama is a "socialist" and at the same time convinced people who like Obama that Bush was a "fascist", when their political views and policies are so remarkably similar. (Don't make the mistake of thinking this makes either of them "moderate".)

What needs to happen is a middle majority

Which of course is best accomplished by dissing the people you're talking to by calling them "extremists". Nothing helps build moderation like insults!

[Avder]

Was stating it more as a fact than an insult. I really thought it was pretty much self evident at this point.

You are pretty much right about Obama and Bush being very close together on the political spectrum. I don't get why more conservatives don't like him.

[Lothar]

I really thought it was pretty much self evident at this point.

Eh... being "to the right of Bush" doesn't exactly make someone ultra-conservative. I'm to the right of Bush in a lot of ways and good political quizzes put me in capitalist-libertarian territory.

You are pretty much right about Obama and Bush being very close together on the political spectrum. I don't get why more conservatives don't like him.

Same reason more liberals don't like Bush. Because they've got opposite letters next to their names, and the media and political establishments want you to believe side A is good and side B is bad.

[Ferno]

If you insult both groups, you can take that position. Whether or not it's fitting is besides the point.

you get facts confused with insults a lot, don't ya?

If this is a “right wing board” it’s only because the liberals have all wussed out. There used to be plenty of them here.

heh no kidding. the superleft couldn't stand the heat, so they left us central people here. ah well.

[Nightshade]

Ferno, center?

Bahahahahaha ha!

[CUDA]

If this is a “right wing board” it’s only because the liberals have all wussed out. There used to be plenty of them here.

heh no kidding. the superleft couldn't stand the heat, so they left us central people here. ah well.

agreed. interestingly enough the only two hardcore lefties with enough balls to stay around are women.

[Avder]

If this is a “right wing board” it’s only because the liberals have all wussed out. There used to be plenty of them here.

heh no kidding. the superleft couldn't stand the heat, so they left us central people here. ah well.

agreed. interestingly enough the only two hardcore lefties with enough balls to stay around are women.

So lefties should stick around on a board where their viewpoints are ridiculed, ignored, and shouted down. why? I could see a point if they had left despite there being civilized discussion going on, but that was never the case in this forum.

[CUDA]

If this is a “right wing board” it’s only because the liberals have all wussed out. There used to be plenty of them here.

heh no kidding. the superleft couldn't stand the heat, so they left us central people here. ah well.

agreed. interestingly enough the only two hardcore lefties with enough balls to stay around are women.

So lefties should stick around on a board where their viewpoints are ridiculed, ignored, and shouted down. why? I could see a point if they had left despite there being civilized discussion going on, but that was never the case in this forum.

because you believe in your convictions?????? running from a debate proves only two things.
1. My position isn't strong enough to stand up to scrutiny.
2. I dont care to learn from others and correct my position if I am wrong.

if you don't think the people on the right have suffered the same thing then your fooling yourself. over the years I've had several PM's from "former" left leaning member of this board that have called me Vile things because of my stance on Issues even to the point of those people wishing me dead.

while I seldom agree with a left leaning view point, I would NEVER stoop to those levels. my goal to to get people to think clearly for themselves. If I've got a beef with you, I'll poke you in the eye in the open forum. I would never lower myself to a threat in a PM. I actually have a good amount of repect for both TC and Bee. I seldom agree with them if ever, but at least they have had the courage to stick around and interject in some of our discussions on a regular and consistant basis. the same cannot be said to those that have taken their ball and shall we say gone home.

[Spidey]

I predicted Avder’s response yesterday after I made my post, the left is not supposed to have to listen to being shouted down, but the right was supposed to listen to constant insults…give me a break.

roid once said Woody, CUDA and I were the kind of people the world could do without…

I knew it was going to happen…blame the other guy…that’s what the left does the best.

..............

Just look at roid’s post, and get an idea of the way he talks down to the people here.

viewtopic.php?t=17491

[Gooberman]

This board has always leaned right in my view for the decade or so that I have been rambling here. There has always been sort of an ebb and flow between interesting and useful discussions, to flat out insults.

The latter, which I have certainty done my share of contributing to, is usually a bit more intensified every other year around November.

/me looks at calendar

[Ferno]

Ferno, center?

Bahahahahaha ha!

you just can't see it because you're too much of a right wing nut.


I read the whole 'running away from debate' bit and I just laughed. why? because most of the debates on the internet are a bad joke. Sure, there may be some interesting posts but a lot of the time it just becomes another common denominator.

[Isaac]

As far as the two sides in the United States are concerned, I've just started believing that the difference lies in how each side tries to move the economic short-run equilibrium to the long range aggregate supply curve during a recession. The left tries to increase aggregate demand by giving more incentives to spend, while the right should increase short-run aggregate supply to lower prices and increase productivity. I believe the current administration has decreased shot run aggregate supply and greatly increased aggregate demand, but, making things worse, increased unemployment incentives allowing the unemployment surplus to be less competitive, keeping wages higher than they should be. I'm a bit shaky on economics, please correct me where I'm wrong. Thank you!

[Will Robinson]

There is such a big difference between liberal 'philosophy' (for lack of a better word) and modern day liberal politics that the term liberal should be surrendered by one or the other.

I think I would be a liberal if the political left didn't control what they actually stand for in practice.

A similar rift is growing on the other side. The contradiction and conflict on the left has been at work longer.

Anyway, for me, the liberal thought is beautiful but in practice it is often dangerously irresponsible.
Conservative thought is pragmatic and wise but in practice it is dog-eat-dog and somewhat self destructive.

[Will Robinson]

... The left tries to increase aggregate demand by giving more incentives to spend,..

I'm not seeing this unless you mean they want to redistribute wealth so the less wealthy can consume more.

[Isaac]

... The left tries to increase aggregate demand by giving more incentives to spend,..

I'm not seeing this unless you mean they want to redistribute wealth so the less wealthy can consume more.

Yeah, like welfare and other free stuff, which is normally to help the poor but can also be an excuse to stimulate the economy. Also, I just edited the first line to clarify what I mean.

[Avder]

I predicted Avder’s response yesterday after I made my post, the left is not supposed to have to listen to being shouted down, but the right was supposed to listen to constant insults…give me a break.

roid once said Woody, CUDA and I were the kind of people the world could do without…

I knew it was going to happen…blame the other guy…that’s what the left does the best.

..............

Just look at roid’s post, and get an idea of the way he talks down to the people here.

viewtopic.php?t=17491

Roid is...eccentric...to say the least. I don't think hes an indicator of anything.

And it was never the lefties that were the only ones flinging insults. It takes two to tango.

[Lothar]

This board has always leaned right in my view

It was a bit left in its earliest days, but shifted to the right during the time Sirian was a dominant player and me and Drakona started to build our argument skills. (There were others involved, of course.)

Vander, Birdseye, you, and a few others provided a pretty good counterbalance, but when the three of you quit posting regularly, the others on the left had a hard time keeping up.

I could see a point if they had left despite there being civilized discussion going on, but that was never the case in this forum.

Prior to Birds/Vander/Goob leaving, it was always the case on this forum. The ridicule/ignore/shout down types were marginalized. When the guys on the left who could actually debate stopped doing so, all that remained were the ones who ridiculed and ignored and shouted down, which boosted the participation of the guys on the right who did the same, and I think scared off some of the remaining substantive-discussion types on both sides.

It's sad, really. There are still plenty of people here who can engage in worthwhile discussion, but we don't quite have the critical mass we need to make that the norm and marginalize the trolls and jerks. It would only take a few more serious people on both sides who were willing to say "hey, quit trolling" to their own...

[Spidey]

Of course Avder, the yelling and screaming comes from both sides…it was “you” who tried to tie it to one side only, and use it as an excuse.

There is no real debate on the internet, it’s all about e-penis most of the time.

But, I would like to explain my perspective of the left here…There are about 3 kinds of posters…

1. I can’t really defend my position, so I will attack “you” instead.

2. I’m smarter than you, so this debate is pointless.

3. Spin doctor.

I won’t define the right, you already did that.

[Mjolnir]

Actually there is one more classification that belongs here and that is "progressive."

Look it up.

IMO the founding fathers set up our federal government in such a way as there would be little or no agreement between the 3 branches of government, thus keeping the federal government manageable by "We the people."

However, around the turn of the last century, there came into being, the "progressive." It's only since then that the federal government has become unmanageable by "We the people."

Do your research if you doubt me.

Watch Glenn Beck much? *yawn*, had this conversation with enough of his audience already.

Look, I can play this game too(except mine is more based in reality)

However, in the middle of the last century, a certain tricky President came to power and by nominating a Supreme Court nominee who was a corporate lawyer with "impeccable" timing of being nominated for decisions on Corporate personhood. It's only since then that the federal government has become unmanageable by "We the people."

Do your research if you doubt me.

[Heretic]

All the finger pointing from both side is just getting more and more ___________ up. If you want to know who the problem is just go look in the _______ mirror.


Do your research if you doubt me.

[Neo]

Conservative Thinking:

Jedi

Liberal Thinking:

Sith

fixed :P

[Tunnelcat]

How's that? The Jedi philosophy says to always help everyone, despite personal cost, while the Sith philosophy is all about attaining as much power as possible and pure free will for the individual.

Jedi Code

Sith Code

Only the \"respect all life\" part of the Jedi Code seems to be the crossover to right-wing ideas.

[null0010]

All the finger pointing from both side is just getting more and more ___________ up. If you want to know who the problem is just go look in the _______ mirror.


Do your research if you doubt me.

I don't have a reflection; I'm a vampire.

[CUDA]

How's that? The Jedi philosophy says to always help everyone, despite personal cost, while the Sith philosophy is all about attaining as much power as possible and pure free will for the individual.

Jedi Code

Sith Code

Only the "respect all life" part of the Jedi Code seems to be the crossover to right-wing ideas.

if your thinking that the "Left Wing"(sith) are "helping" all those people for the people's good and not just buying votes to stay in power your delusional.