The savages are at it again:

[Nightshade]

At Least 12 Killed During Koran-Burning Protest at UN Office in Afghanistan

KABUL, Afghanistan — Thousands of protesters angry over the purported burning of a Koran by a Florida pastor stormed a United Nations compound Friday in northern Afghanistan, killing at least 12 people, including eight foreigners.

Two of the foreigners were beheaded, Reuters reported. There were unconfirmed reports that the death toll was as high as 20.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/04/01 ... ghanistan/

I wonder if they burn bibles over there, some mormons will go on a rampage here.

[Spidey]

Maybe if it was the Book of Mormon.

[CUDA]

Maybe if it was the Book of Mormon.

yea Mormons don't read the Bible.

[Sergeant Thorne]

They read a version of the Bible. But they consider their book to be the higher authority.

[Top Gun]

Not to condone the asinine response, but you're not going to call out that preacher for being the total ★■◆●-up that he is too?

[Nightshade]

The preacher was exercising his right of free expression. It could have been an art piece like pisschrist right? Didn't that artist get adulation for his placing a crucifix in urine?

[Top Gun]

No, he got widespread public condemnation from what I remember. And that perfectly illustrates what's at work here: just because someone can say something does not mean that someone should. That goes double for situations where what you say is just about guaranteed to incite violence. As is often cited, no one has the right to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater.

Also, from everything I've heard, this preacher is a bigoted ★■◆● for reasons that go beyond this. At the very least, he sure as hell isn't following WWJD.

[Nightshade]

No, he got widespread public condemnation from what I remember.

Yes, but was anyone beheaded?

[Top Gun]

What's your point, exactly? Was it any less wrong for that artist to (almost quite literally) ★■◆● on symbols of Christianity than it is for this fundie nutjob preacher to do the same on a symbol of Islam, the potential consequences of each aside? They're both guilty of being assholes, but the fact that this preacher had to know what his actions would cause (just as the threat of such actions did last year) makes him even more culpable.

[Nightshade]

So you're saying- in order for Christianity to gain your respect (or rather, fear), Christians should murder people and attack others when a christian symbol is desecrated on purpose?

What makes islam special and untouchable? Because of the threat of violence? Should it be untouchable in an open and free society?

Ok then. Better not make fun of pink unicorns 'cause Mike Tyson likes 'em. If you burn one in effigy, he might kill someone.

[TheWhat]

This is my last interaction with a Somali Muslim woman, it happened yesterday on a city bus: "Ma'am, would you like to sit down?" "Yes, thank you."

You friggin' paranoid messageboard politico spammers don't even know any muslims at all, just cut and paste.

[CUDA]

and you knew she was Muslim how?? I suppose you asked her right? or maybe it was her Burqa? or maybe it was her Brown skin that gave it away? or maybe it was the explosive vest she was wearing?? I'm guessing that since you were on a City bus you didn't know her either did you. just a little self ownage there huh

yep your right TB's posts are cut and paste, but then again at least he sparks debate. and exactly what do your posts add to the discussion? 93 posts and I don't think there has been 1 of them that has been anything more than a 1 or 2 line troll post and an attack on one or more of this forums members

[Sergeant Thorne]

TopGun, I wouldn't condemn or justify the preacher that burnt the Koran because I don't know all of the details, but it seems to me that he was making a point. The statement made, as far as I'm concerned, is that he's not going to be intimidated by Islam. In our day people and whole countries are being intimidated by Muslims. In fact the Muslim reaction is, in my opinion, designed to intimidate those who will be intimidated into acting against that same preacher in order to avoid further Muslim outbreaks.

If I were in charge do you know what I would do? Absolutely nothing to the paster. I would broadcast to all of the Muslims in the area of the attack that they would from now on be held accountable, as a whole, for the actions of their fellow Muslims. That if they are not in agreement with those who injure and kill for intimidation they had better separate themselves to avoid the retaliation against such acts in the future, because such retaliation would necessarily be dealt out indiscriminately.

TheWhat, you dumbass. I guess since you had a moment on a city bus with a Muslim lady that these people are shooting themselves in the wake of Muslim protests.

[Spidey]

If I were in charge do you know what I would do? Absolutely nothing to the paster. I would broadcast to all of the Muslims in the area of the attack that they would from now on be held accountable, as a whole, for the actions of their fellow Muslims.

Ummm…well I was going to say something, but I think I’ll just be quiet instead.

No...I have to say it....Please don't ever be in charge.

[Sergeant Thorne]

I know I can always count on your vote, Spidey. That goes without saying. Not many people have the stomach for what's needed to unfuck that part of the world. You don't get too many murderous protests in our part of the world, these days, and certainly not murderous protests you can set your watch by. When you can count on it, but the only discernible difference between the ones doing the murdering and the ones holding signs is that they've killed someone, it limits your options and it seems to me you must force them into a category that can either be held accountable or be accountable for itself. I'm not reckless in my thinking when it comes to that, but when you're in a predictable situation that has no solution something must give. It's either that or a total police state, and that is an equally untenable option in my mind. If every protest ends in bloodshed, but the supposed innocents that I'm obviously being unfair to are willing to start or support the next one and not be responsible for the outcome, are they really innocent? It's true that they are not doing the murdering, and I make a difference in that I give them a chance to make a difference in either separating themselves or dealing with the violent offenders, rather than unjustly mowing them all down. What I suggested is not the ideal solution, but it is, I believe, the just solution, when carried out by an authority with attention to the specific situation. There is no perfect solution when dealing with a less than ideal scenario. The ideal scenario involves these Muslims valuing human life over their book and their sense of indignation (as opposed to giving out candy when either are served at the expense of human life). Progress toward justice can be made. Authority need not be powerless.

[SilverFJ]

The pastor can burn what he wants. It's un-justified to kill people over it.
Westboro might be a bunch of douchebags but it's still their right to hold signs. Sheik-Muhammad had no right doing what he did.
Meat, you're just pointlessly flaming. I know it must be tough being a whiny sissy but at least you get the shield of the internet to insult people. I feel sorry for you.

[Tunnelcat]

Not to condone the asinine response, but you're not going to call out that preacher for being the total **** that he is too?

I say we take this idiot, throw him in a plane and drop him in the middle of Kabul with a big sign hanging on him that says: "I'm a Quran Burner, do whatever you want with me because Jesus is on my side and not yours".

The guy's an imbecile and a murderer by proxy, since he knew full well it would inflame Muslims!

[Sergeant Thorne]

Now that we have the idiot liberal slant...

[Tunnelcat]

That's your opinion. I say if someone yells "fire" in a crowded theater, they are responsible for whatever happens as a result. That preacher's not teaching Christian morals to his flock, he's out instigating a mayhem and teaching hate for his own means and ends. What kind of preacher is that?

[Nightshade]

I say we take this idiot, throw him in a plane and drop him in the middle of Kabul with a big sign hanging on him that says: "I'm a Quran Burner, do whatever you want with me because Jesus is on my side and not yours".

The guy's an imbecile and a murderer by proxy, since he knew full well it would inflame Muslims!

My problem with the situation, TC, is that ya'll are saying essentially: "I will respect you if you make me fear you." Should you respect someone only because they instill fear in you?

Is that how we're going to conduct business in a secular pluralistic society? Kill, maim and victimize enough people for your cause and we'll give you more respect than people that live peacefully and are actually victimized?

[SilverFJ]

Are you serious? Just because something is going to make someone angry doesn't mean you should be afraid to do it.
Yelling fire in a theatre when there isn't one is a false warning to other people that their lives are in peril and can cause more trouble than an actual fire.
A person using his freedom to express himself in a non-violent way is perfectly acceptable. The pastor is no "murderer by proxy" and it's assanine to accuse him of such. The people who commited the murderous attrocities have no respect for freedom.

Example, if a guy walks up to me and insults me, I can rise above it or blast him in the nose. One of them makes me a real man and the other one lands me in the clink for the night. People who live in fear like you are the people we need to cut away from our society.

[Sergeant Thorne]

That's your opinion. I say if someone yells "fire" in a crowded theater, they are responsible for whatever happens as a result. That preacher's not teaching Christian morals to his flock, he's out instigating a mayhem and teaching hate for his own means and ends. What kind of preacher is that?

Drop the fire bull★■◆●. No one yelled "fire". A man burned a Koran apparently to show what he thought of the commonly-known intimidation of Muslims towards anyone who speaks or acts amiss against Islam. They didn't attack him, they attacked and killed numerous representatives of the U.N., which is only indirectly related to that man's country. There was no confusion--no threat against anyone's safety or life, this was not an emergency. Grown men willfully slaughtered innocents to make a political statement. So instead of saying, "oh wait, we're dealing with some real barbarians here, let's think about this", your reaction is to feed the offender to them because you're not impressed with his religion. It's not just my opinion. Your statement is devoid of reason.

[SilverFJ]

Your statement is devoid of reason.

...or sanity. Or humanity.
I don't like people burning the American Flag at all, but if they want to do it to express their idiot views, it's my obligation to die for them to do it, not kill them.

[Top Gun]

So you're saying- in order for Christianity to gain your respect (or rather, fear), Christians should murder people and attack others when a christian symbol is desecrated on purpose?

looooooool

TopGun, I wouldn't condemn or justify the preacher that burnt the Koran because I don't know all of the details, but it seems to me that he was making a point. The statement made, as far as I'm concerned, is that he's not going to be intimidated by Islam. In our day people and whole countries are being intimidated by Muslims. In fact the Muslim reaction is, in my opinion, designed to intimidate those who will be intimidated into acting against that same preacher in order to avoid further Muslim outbreaks.

If I were in charge do you know what I would do? Absolutely nothing to the paster. I would broadcast to all of the Muslims in the area of the attack that they would from now on be held accountable, as a whole, for the actions of their fellow Muslims. That if they are not in agreement with those who injure and kill for intimidation they had better separate themselves to avoid the retaliation against such acts in the future, because such retaliation would necessarily be dealt out indiscriminately.

The man's a racist, homophobic ★■◆●. He's not doing any of this to further some noble ideal of freedom of expression, as in the case of the Muhammad political cartoons...he's just hate-mongering. As I stated earlier, do you really think that Jesus (y'know, the guy who said "love thy enemies") would be all about that?

Ah, and so now we're holding people accountable for the sins of those who just so happen to be of the same ethnicity as them. Guess that means that all of us white males have to answer for what Timothy McVeigh did. I seem to remember some quote about "sins of the father," too. Maybe you'd better try reading your Bible more than thumping it.

I say we take this idiot, throw him in a plane and drop him in the middle of Kabul with a big sign hanging on him that says: "I'm a Quran Burner, do whatever you want with me because Jesus is on my side and not yours".

See, now this idea I like. We'll see how willing he is to continue his fun when he's the one who's actually in danger from his actions.

[Tunnelcat]

That's your opinion. I say if someone yells "fire" in a crowded theater, they are responsible for whatever happens as a result. That preacher's not teaching Christian morals to his flock, he's out instigating a mayhem and teaching hate for his own means and ends. What kind of preacher is that?

Drop the fire ****. No one yelled "fire". A man burned a Koran apparently to show what he thought of the commonly-known intimidation of Muslims towards anyone who speaks or acts amiss against Islam. They didn't attack him, they attacked and killed numerous representatives of the U.N., which is only indirectly related to that man's country. There was no confusion--no threat against anyone's safety or life, this was not an emergency. Grown men willfully slaughtered innocents to make a political statement. So instead of saying, "oh wait, we're dealing with some real barbarians here, let's think about this", your reaction is to feed the offender to them because you're not impressed with his religion. It's not just my opinion. Your statement is devoid of reason.

You're forgetting Muslims are so devoted to what they believe that they have no compunction to do nasty and horrible things to those that put down their religion and it's book. It's well known, so why did that preacher taunt them? He must have known that they would react violently. To prove his point they are sub-human and so is their religion? I say don't stir up the hornet's nest unless you want to fight off their attacks. Maybe this guy WANTS a fight. Well, he can go over there and take his fight right to them, instead of getting innocent people caught up in the attack he instigated as a stupid political statement. Muslims take things WAAAAAAY to personal when it comes to their religion. The guy is still an idiot who must want some Holy War to prove his Christianity is better.

[Top Gun]

See, that's the main point here. No one's saying that extremist Muslim elements in certain parts of the world should react this way. They shouldn't, and in an ideal world, they wouldn't. But the fact remains that this guy in Florida knew full-well that they would react this way, since he himself caused a very similar reaction a year ago. And because the coward isn't willing to put his money where his mouth is, innocent people have died as a result. I'd certainly consider him to be morally complicit in their deaths.

[Sergeant Thorne]

TunnelCat, you can't blame the man in Florida for the killings in Afghanistan, period. Those killings are evidence of a real problem--a problem with Islam and Afghanistan, not a problem with Florida. All that pastor did was provide them with an opportunity to make a political statement. The statement was that you don't cross Islam or people die. Pardon me if I'm not receptive. Publicly the man in Florida should be left alone, privately perhaps it would be a good idea to ask him, and anyone else contemplating stirring up your hornets nest to hold off, but if we start thinking down those lines I'm afraid the point has been missed. The point is that Islam, and anyone else who threatens force if we don't agree with them can go pound sand, and I don't see anything being done about Islam by any of our leaders except catering to their Islamic voters, and Islamic foreign policy and economic interests. There aren't but a handful of backbones in the entire U.S. government, and that seems to pretty much go for any other world power. And that's just addressing the surface of the waters in our government, figuratively speaking, I've become aware that there's a lot of bad things going on behind the scenes, while a bright face is put on for we the people.

We all need to read the Bible, as far as I'm concerned, TopGun, but I think I need to read it less than you do. Jesus would preach the kingdom of God, cast out the homo devil, tell the Homos to go and sin no more, and that people involved in homosexuality will have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, and you would call him a "homophobe."

Ah, and so now we're holding people accountable for the sins of those who just so happen to be of the same ethnicity as them.

No. Just an effective way of resolving an issue that could otherwise basically just run on and on from surprise casualty to surprise casualty, sort of like in Iraq. The primary difference being that their safety and their homes could in no way be perceived as being threatened by someone burning a book all of the way across the ocean.

[Sergeant Thorne]

But the fact remains that this guy in Florida knew full-well that they would react this way, since he himself caused a very similar reaction a year ago.

Would you run that by me again? He caused what? And I thought I heard you say that the pastor in Florida was targeting the U.N. in Afghanistan.

[Tunnelcat]

TunnelCat, you can't blame the man in Florida for the killings in Afghanistan, period. Those killings are evidence of a real problem--a problem with Islam and Afghanistan, not a problem with Florida. All that pastor did was provide them with an opportunity to make a political statement. The statement was that you don't cross Islam or people die. Pardon me if I'm not receptive. Publicly the man in Florida should be left alone, privately perhaps it would be a good idea to ask him, and anyone else contemplating stirring up your hornets nest to hold off, but if we start thinking down those lines I'm afraid the point has been missed. The point is that Islam, and anyone else who threatens force if we don't agree with them can go pound sand, and I don't see anything being done about Islam by any of our leaders except catering to their Islamic voters, and Islamic foreign policy and economic interests. There aren't but a handful of backbones in the entire U.S. government, and that seems to pretty much go for any other world power. And that's just addressing the surface of the waters in our government, figuratively speaking, I've become aware that there's a lot of bad things going on behind the scenes, while a bright face is put on for we the people.

Put it this way, we aren't going to get rid of Islam any time soon, and we aren't going to change how they react to implied or actual attacks against their religion, that's been well proven. Unless people are prepared to go and kill or convert (very unlikely) every Muslim in the world so that "preachers" like this Florida hate monger can be free to spew his "opinion" about another religion he happens to take exception with, silence is golden. Short of destroying the religion, things are not going to change. We are matched. We need to keep to our world and they to theirs. If you want to change the world to be a safer place for Christians, join the military, grab a gun and start clearing out the nest, because we're going to keep having these nonsensical "retaliations" as long as Islam exists. It's not a logical or moral way to respond to slights against a religion, but I don't see any way to "fix" the problem short of full scale Holy war.

Another question, why did Karzai even "announce" this little Quran burning to his people at all? That's how the people found out about it in mass. I hadn't even heard of it in the news. So was it to bolster his status as a hero against the U.S. infidels and rile his population against us? If so, we have a nice backstabbing partner in anti-terrorism who really supports us, NOT. What a waste of effort and lives all these years, just to put in another corrupt despot and create another nation that hates us.

[Top Gun]

We all need to read the Bible, as far as I'm concerned, TopGun, but I think I need to read it less than you do. Jesus would preach the kingdom of God, cast out the homo devil, tell the Homos to go and sin no more, and that people involved in homosexuality will have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, and you would call him a "homophobe."

Bwahahahaha. Well at least I know now to never put any credible stock in anything you say in the future. "Cast out the homo devil"? Holy ★■◆●, go read some current research and get with the 21st century already. Do you even realize how ass-backwards that line of thought is? That type of attitude has absolutely no place in a modern civilized society. And as far as Jesus goes, you're telling me the same man who associated with lepers and prostitutes would seriously shun people who just happen to be attracted to the same gender as themselves?

Ah, and so now we're holding people accountable for the sins of those who just so happen to be of the same ethnicity as them.

No. Just an effective way of resolving an issue that could otherwise basically just run on and on from surprise casualty to surprise casualty, sort of like in Iraq. The primary difference being that their safety and their homes could in no way be perceived as being threatened by someone burning a book all of the way across the ocean.

But again, it's not their place to be taken to task over this. Blame the people actually committing the crimes, and leave it at that.

But the fact remains that this guy in Florida knew full-well that they would react this way, since he himself caused a very similar reaction a year ago.

Would you run that by me again? He caused what? And I thought I heard you say that the pastor in Florida was targeting the U.N. in Afghanistan.

This same preacher threatened to do exactly what he did some time last year, but he backed down after heavy intervention from political and religious organizations around the world. Apparently he was too much of a dumbass to take it to heart, because he wound up actually doing it this time.

[Sergeant Thorne]

You first paragraph isn't worth my time. Maybe you need to read the Bible before you make statements about the character of the one it presents. Jesus regularly cast out devils, and he also taught his disciples to do so, and there's nothing in modern science except extreme skepticism to disprove a spiritual aspect to life, and plenty of things in favor of it.

But again, it's not their place to be taken to task over this. Blame the people actually committing the crimes, and leave it at that.

Maybe you don't understand that 20 dead is 20 too many. If all of the people who pulled the trigger at this protest are locked up, it would happen much the same way at the next one. No reasonable person with any exposure to the issue would deny that. Islam is violence, when someone speaks against their religion. I'm talking about a demand, by the authorities, that the Muslims take steps themselves to see this behavior stopped. If violence and murder is inherent in their religion then it damn well is their place to be taken to task over this, and if it must be inseparable from their religion, then maybe they all need to die. Being the dummy that you are, you probably think I just indicated that I wish all Muslims would be killed. What I wish is that anyone who thinks that others need to die to satisfy their indignation or their pride would themselves be killed first!

This same preacher threatened to do exactly what he did some time last year, but he backed down after heavy intervention from political and religious organizations around the world. Apparently he was too much of a dumbass to take it to heart, because he wound up actually doing it this time.

But that's not what you said, you said...

But the fact remains that this guy in Florida knew full-well that they would react this way, since he himself caused a very similar reaction a year ago.

[Sergeant Thorne]

By the way, are you so stupid that you would accept the idea that Jesus spent his time with "lepers and prostitutes" just so that they could continue to be lepers and prostitutes? You think he had a thing for diseases and loose women, huh? The Bible says that he came not to call the "righteous" but sinner to repentance. It also says that he went about healing all who were afflicted by the Devil. You think "go and sin no more" was just a message for that one woman caught in adultery? The Bible says that he did not come to condemn the world, but so that the world, through him, might be saved. It also says that he will come a second time for judgment. I don't know where you get your grasp of scripture, but its pretty weak.

[Top Gun]

You first paragraph isn't worth my time. Maybe you need to read the Bible before you make statements about the character of the one it presents. Jesus regularly cast out devils, and he also taught his disciples to do so, and there's nothing in modern science except extreme skepticism to disprove a spiritual aspect to life, and plenty of things in favor of it.

My reference to science wasn't about spirituality in general, but about the topic of homosexuality in particular. Your statements on said topic make it blatantly clear that you're operating from a woefully ignorant position.

But again, it's not their place to be taken to task over this. Blame the people actually committing the crimes, and leave it at that.

Maybe you don't understand that 20 dead is 20 too many. If all of the people who pulled the trigger at this protest are locked up, it would happen much the same way at the next one. No reasonable person with any exposure to the issue would deny that. Islam is violence, when someone speaks against their religion. I'm talking about a demand, by the authorities, that the Muslims take steps themselves to see this behavior stopped. If violence and murder is inherent in their religion then it damn well is their place to be taken to task over this, and if it must be inseparable from their religion, then maybe they all need to die. Being the dummy that you are, you probably think I just indicated that I wish all Muslims would be killed. What I wish is that anyone who thinks that others need to die to satisfy their indignation or their pride would themselves be killed first!

So you really believe that "Islam is violence" in some inherent fashion? Hmm, let me look around...are the people at the mosques in my area burning flags and shouting "Death to America!"? Nope, doesn't look like it. Maybe it's some other reason, then. Maybe, oh, I don't know, centuries of colonialism and warfare and despots and oppression and abject poverty have created an environment in which radical interpretations of a certain religion can foster, in which the masses can be exploited to conflate their very real problems with the scapegoat of a "great Satan." But nah, let's just say that all Muslims are evil and need to be exterminated. That doesn't require any troublesome little facts, does it?

This same preacher threatened to do exactly what he did some time last year, but he backed down after heavy intervention from political and religious organizations around the world. Apparently he was too much of a dumbass to take it to heart, because he wound up actually doing it this time.

But that's not what you said, you said...

But the fact remains that this guy in Florida knew full-well that they would react this way, since he himself caused a very similar reaction a year ago.

That's...exactly what I said. This guy threatened to burn a Koran on September 11 last year, and a lot of people in the Middle East got very pissed. He got talked out of it by much wiser heads, but then he decides to actually go ahead and do it this year. And hey, look, a lot of people in the Middle East are getting very pissed. Hmm, I sense a pattern here.

By the way, are you so stupid that you would accept the idea that Jesus spent his time with "lepers and prostitutes" just so that they could continue to be lepers and prostitutes? You think he had a thing for diseases and loose women, huh? The Bible says that he came not to call the "righteous" but sinner to repentance. It also says that he went about healing all who were afflicted by the Devil. You think "go and sin no more" was just a message for that one woman caught in adultery? The Bible says that he did not come to condemn the world, but so that the world, through him, might be saved. It also says that he will come a second time for judgment. I don't know where you get your grasp of scripture, but its pretty weak.

And I for one would like to know where you got your grasp of behavioral biology. Or are you really going to stand here and assert that people who happen to be homosexual are making some sort of "lifestyle choice" that you consider "sinful"? I hate to tell you, but that ship sailed years ago, and it ain't coming back. I'm just incredibly thankful that medieval opinions such as yours are on their way out the door as time passes. Modern society continues to improve how it treats its own members, even if there are those who will always desperately cling to outmoded hurtful ways.

[SilverFJ]

Top Gun,
Your arguments are so weak I'm not gunna bother quoting you and trying to counter them, I tried putting my own peice in here but obviously you have no answer to it. What you need to do is get out of the house more often, or maybe leave home and quit leeching off the parents, and travel or something, so you have some kind of understanding that not everyone thinks like you do. Regarding, for example, homosexuality as a lifestyle choice, "The ship" sure the hell hasn't sailed as far as you think it has.

[snoopy]

Here's the point:

Burning a Koran is a rude thing to do, but it doesn't directly endanger anyone, so it's an expression of speech that anyone is free to do in the United States. That doesn't mean that people should do it, but it does mean that is isn't criminal to do.

Murdering people because you're upset that your sacred symbols are being desecrated is murder, and criminal.

We're all responsible for our own actions. There is no way that you can claim that the murders were somehow forced by the burning... the murderers chose to kill, and should be brought to justice as such. The Koran burners chose to burn, and should be frowned upon for it, but can't exactly be prosecuted for it.

History does seem to indicate a connection between opposition to Islam and violent responses by Muslims.

[Top Gun]

Top Gun,
Your arguments are so weak I'm not gunna bother quoting you and trying to counter them, I tried putting my own peice in here but obviously you have no answer to it. What you need to do is get out of the house more often, or maybe leave home and quit leeching off the parents, and travel or something, so you have some kind of understanding that not everyone thinks like you do. Regarding, for example, homosexuality as a lifestyle choice, "The ship" sure the hell hasn't sailed as far as you think it has.

Hey man, if you want to bow out of the discussion, just say so. Don't try to pass it off like I'm avoiding responding to people; even a glance at the last page would disprove that.

And yes, that ship has not only sailed, but it's at the bottom of the sea. If you'd ever cracked open a biology textbook or taken even a cursory look at recent research, you'd understand that. No man just wakes up in the morning and says, "Oh hey, I'm gonna start ★■◆●ing guys now." Not by a long shot. Hell, just a glance around the animal kingdom would let you know that that attitude is woefully misinformed. It's not my responsibility to make sure people know the facts, but I'll definitely make sure to call them on it when they demonstrate that they don't.

For the record, I also want to express the hope that any members of our community who happen to be homosexual haven't found this thread, because I can't imagine how it must feel to go cruising around the forum only to come across bull★■◆● attitudes like these.

(Also, I have to say, your continued non sequiturs about what my personal situation may or may not be are hilarious.)

[null0010]

For the record, I also want to express the hope that any members of our community who happen to be homosexual haven't found this thread, because I can't imagine how it must feel to go cruising around the forum only to come across bull★■◆● attitudes like these.

To be perfectly honest, I think it's funny. Laughable, even. I got over this sort of childish taunting somewhere around middle school, and it amuses me to no end that grown adults still hold these opinions so close to their hearts.

[Ferno]

Regarding, for example, homosexuality as a lifestyle choice, "The ship" sure the hell hasn't sailed as far as you think it has.

It's about as much of a choice as deciding to start breathing seawater.

[Sergeant Thorne]

You know I've been fairly nice about the way you two have handled our talk of helping a woman in distress. I see a real problem there, but sometimes people just have things to learn in life, and the DBB isn't the stage for it. But in light of your further comments, I think you both ought to know that your reaction is less than manly. The way Woodchip was talking is just about exactly how a man ought to feel about any kind of injustice, but especially when it comes to injustice and violence against the weaker sex. Furthermore your support of homosexuality is unmanly, and your virtual laughter at the compunction that several of us here have for men being attracted to other men when they should be attracted to women is both overly bold, and juvenile, as much as it is morally crooked. Finally SilverFJ is right. That ship has not sailed, because I believe we're still on said ship, and it isn't possible that we're being brought along. You may possibly have popular culture on your side, as a more recent, socially-engineered, cultural shift, but that's not necessarily anything to boast about and there are plenty of people in this country that take real issue with it. If you think you can win the argument by default, you might at least know that it's only won in your mind, even if your illusions are bolstered by a shift in popular public opinion. Prop 8 was overturned in California... A lot of people don't have the moral fiber or sense to disagree with all of the "homosexuality is acceptable/normal" nonsense being pushed on us--some very persuasive emotional arguments are being made, and without a moral basis to say "that's wrong" going along with it just seems like the decent thing to do. But it is wrong, and for many reasons that are actively suppressed or otherwise beyond a lot people's understanding. Most importantly the Bible says that homosexuals will be cast into the lake of fire on judgment day, so telling people that it is wrong is what any Christian ought to be willing to do.

[null0010]

But in light of your further comments, I think you both ought to know that your reaction is less than manly. The way Woodchip was talking is just about exactly how a man ought to feel about any kind of injustice, but especially when it comes to injustice and violence against the weaker sex.

So, what is manly? Bullheadedness? Acting before thinking? Honor before reason?

Furthermore your support of homosexuality is unmanly, and your virtual laughter at the compunction that several of us here have for men being attracted to other men when they should be attracted to women is both overly bold, and juvenile, as much as it is morally crooked.

I'm still laughing at you.

Most importantly the Bible says that homosexuals will be cast into the lake of fire on judgment day, so telling people that it is wrong is what any Christian ought to be willing to do.

If the Bible says homosexuals will be cast into a lake of fire of some kind, isn't that enough punishment? I mean, when you live your life in such a way to avoid a hellish afterlife, one would assume that such a punishment is all that is required.