The savages are at it again:

[Spidey]

I’ve seen a lot of you guys commit any number of the seven deadly sins…so are you quite sure, you are not also going to be tossed into said lake?

Pride being the biggest one.

I’m pretty sure the homos in the lake of fire, are going to have plenty of company.

[CUDA]

I’ve seen a lot of you guys commit any number of the seven deadly sins…so are you quite sure, you are not also going to be tossed into said lake?

Pride being the biggest one.

I’m pretty sure the homos in the lake of fire, are going to have plenty of company.

agreed 100% along with many people that call themselves Christians and are so in name only.

[Nightshade]

Bullheadedness? Acting before thinking? Honor before reason?

Sounds like islam.

[null0010]

Bullheadedness? Acting before thinking? Honor before reason?

Sounds like islam.

Sounds like wading into a crowd of angry fanatics and opening fire, expecting victory.

[Nightshade]

Some pearls from Obama:

"The desecration of any holy text, including the Quran, is an act of extreme intolerance and bigotry," Obama said in a statement issued Saturday night...

And burning of churches, destroying holy books (bibles and such) of churches and raping of nuns is...not?

"However, to attack and kill innocent people in response is outrageous, and an affront to human decency and dignity"

Wow, really? Under islam, all non-believers are not innocent- so the islamists are slaughtering infidels. It's all cool.

"No religion tolerates the slaughter and beheading of innocent people, and there is no justification for such a dishonorable and deplorable act," Obama said...

And again, under islam- only believers in islam are "innocent" and all other human beings that happen NOT to believe in islam are not even considered human. So it's all good.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... hanistan/1

[Top Gun]

Honestly, Thorne, that post of yours isn't worth responding to in the least, other than the comments that null picked out. I will say that the fact that so many of my countrymen share your ass-backward, frankly medieval views is the main reason why we're the laughingstock of most of the civilized world in so many respects. Stop drinking the goddamn fundie Kool-aid and try thinking for once. You might be surprised by the results. But since you apparently believe such patent falsehoods as every single verse in the entire Bible being meant to be taken as literal historical text, I'm not holding out much hope for that. Lord knows you've probably never so much as touched a science textbook in your life...can't have that book-larnin', now can we? God, I hope that we can manage to lose this nonsense after a few more generations go by.

[Nightshade]

frankly medieval views is the main reason why we're the laughingstock of most of the civilized world in so many respects.

Hehe- your definition of the "civilized world" will be interesting to hear.

You might offend some people Topgun. Careful, they may behead you.

[Top Gun]

Use your imagination.

[Ferno]

synopsis of thread for anyone who skimmed:

gays are bad, obama is bad, liberals are bad. because the bible said so!

[Spidey]

Lake of Fire

[Nightshade]

because the bible said so!

<--- atheist, thanks

[Whitewater]

synopsis of thread for anyone who skimmed:

gays are bad, obama is bad, liberals are bad. because the bible said so!

I think that's far too kind a synopsis. Quite frankly the arrogance, disdain and hatred spewed by a select few of these long time posters leaves me in a state of disbelief. I find it nearly impossible to comprehend how people can be so callous towards other human beings based on decisions they've made that have no impact on any other person's life but their own. I hate to say it because I know this will most likely start another flame war, but the best gift this world could ever receive would be the elimination of religion and political ties. Think for yourselves, don't let someone else tell you have to feel about it. Do some research and for god's sake use some damn common sense. Once you've gained some perspective then make your decisions and live the life you've chosen; let others do the same with their lives. I've been gone from these forums for a really long time and I certainly don't remember such hateful commentary. Maybe I was younger and blind to it, but after reading this filth I'm a bit ashamed to had anything to do with some of you.

[Ferno]

perhaps WW. I was in a good mood when i typed that.

of course if I REALLY wanted to make mincemeat out of this thread...

Maybe I was younger and blind to it, but after reading this filth I'm a bit ashamed to had anything to do with some of you.

what ended up happening was when most of the more moderate and level headed people left, the insane minority got louder.

y'know, I did pick up a piece of advice. "when children learn to devalue others, they can devalue anyone."

and that's exactly what's happened here.

[Top Gun]

You took the words right out of my mouth, Ferno. Several years ago, this place used to have at least a modicum of reasonable and intelligent discussion, but now...well, on its worst days, it's an insane asylum. It doesn't help matters that most of said minority are all of the same super-skewed political persuasion, which is how we get lovely circle-jerk threads like this one. I think the only reason I still post in here is that I have this crazy notion that someone should still be trying to inject a tiny bit of sanity.

[null0010]

I have this crazy notion that someone should still be trying to inject a tiny bit of sanity.

I feel the same way.

[woodchip]

perhaps WW. I was in a good mood when i typed that.

of course if I REALLY wanted to make mincemeat out of this thread...



what ended up happening was when most of the more moderate and level headed people left, the insane minority got louder.

y'know, I did pick up a piece of advice. "when children learn to devalue others, they can devalue anyone."

and that's exactly what's happened here.

And yet you promote the very thing you rail against. Feeling superior now?

[flip]

You wanna show exactly what kind of people those radical muslims are? Burn a copy of the Koran. It's amazing to me that people are against a man that had the balls to reveal that religions core values and show exactly what they are capable of. His non-violent protest of Islam ideals shows them for exactly what they are. I interpret most of the responses here as this:

"If that ★■◆● preacher hadn't have burnt an inanimate object then those "muslims that killed 12 people" wouldn't have lost control of their senses and become all murderous and ★■◆●."

That pastor did you guys a favor and you just don't realize it yet.

[Spidey]

Fear of Islam shows itself in two basic forms…

Aggression & Capitulation

I’m not sure which one is worse.

[Whitewater]

You wanna show exactly what kind of people those radical muslims are? Burn a copy of the Koran. It's amazing to me that people are against a man that had the balls to reveal that religions core values and show exactly what they are capable of. His non-violent protest of Islam ideals shows them for exactly what they are. I interpret most of the responses here as this:

"If that ★■◆● preacher hadn't have burnt an inanimate object then those "muslims that killed 12 people" wouldn't have lost control of their senses and become all murderous and ****."

That pastor did you guys a favor and you just don't realize it yet.

Balls? Are you kidding me? He wasn't the one who had to suffer as a result of such an arrogant act. All he did was intentionally incite people that have historically needed very little prodding to make irate.The question here is simple. Would those 12 people be dead if he didn't burn the book? He may not have expected this particular reaction, but he should have known there would be a reaction.There's nothing heroic or good about what he is or has done

[flip]

Alright, I see where your coming from but I'm sure that pastor knew he would receive alot of negative feedback from the ostriches= BALLS.

I also wholeheartedly agree with you on the violent history of Islam. It's also why I think that pastor chose to go ahead. What with all the whitewashing going on, It's a good reminder of the threat they pose. It takes very little to inflame them to commit murder and I myself would never preach tolerance for someone that shows NONE at all. Unfortunately, I do believe he expected this reaction and I know damn well I would have approached it differently. He has to live with that now, but he did accomplish what he set out to do, which was to show how easily inflamed and easy to control they are. Mindless, brute
beasts.

EDIT: smaller case pastor because most I meet today think way to highly of themselves, also the fault of the ostriches.

[Foil]

Finally back on topic, good. [I nearly threw down the mod-hammer not too many posts ago.]
------

What I'm finding odd here is the polarization in blame - some of you guys seem to want to throw nearly all the blame on the qu'ran-burning pastor, and others put it all on the violent Islamic culture in Afghanistan.

IMHO, fundamentally the root of the issue is the violence, and that kind of mob reaction is loathsome. But with that said, there's no way that acquits those who knowingly provoke it. Like a kid who incites a bully into beating up another kid - both of them share the fault.

[flip]

Yeah I agree. The thought that people might get killed had to have crossed that guys mind. That should have been enough for anyone to rethink their methods. However, if someone burns a bible or a flag I'm only gonna get 7-8 hours sleep over it. I'm not gonna go on a murderous rage over it. The pastor is definitely the instigator in this case, but he didn't cause them to do anything they weren't already fully prepared to do. Any little offense to them and they have already made their mind up to destroy you.

[CUDA]

Finally back on topic, good. [I nearly threw down the mod-hammer not too many posts ago.]
------

What I'm finding odd here is the polarization in blame - some of you guys seem to want to throw nearly all the blame on the qu'ran-burning pastor, and others put it all on the violent Islamic culture in Afghanistan.

IMHO, fundamentally the root of the issue is the violence, and that kind of mob reaction is loathsome. But with that said, there's no way that acquits those who knowingly provoke it. Like a kid who incites a bully into beating up another kid - both of them share the fault.

I don't entirely agree. I do agree the Pastor was a fool, he knew that his actions would get the Muslims angry. which in IMHO make him a bad pastor, which he will eventually need to answer for. (Heb 13:17)

HOWEVER, the deaths lay completely at the feet of the Muslims that committed the acts. they had every right and reason to protest. they had NO right or reason to commit Murder.

[flip]

I'm not so sure Cuda. Had the threat been made against his own loved ones and had the extremists been closer, he may have made a different call. He had a year to think about it. He had to have surmised that someone might die from his actions and he made the call to go ahead. Had it been his own wife or children, he may have acted differently. He shares some of the guilt and I'm sure if you asked him, He'd probably agree.

[Top Gun]

And yet you promote the very thing you rail against. Feeling superior now?

Ferno's one of the few sane people left here. What exactly is he promoting, then?

[Tunnelcat]

Finally back on topic, good. [I nearly threw down the mod-hammer not too many posts ago.]
------

What I'm finding odd here is the polarization in blame - some of you guys seem to want to throw nearly all the blame on the qu'ran-burning pastor, and others put it all on the violent Islamic culture in Afghanistan.

IMHO, fundamentally the root of the issue is the violence, and that kind of mob reaction is loathsome. But with that said, there's no way that acquits those who knowingly provoke it. Like a kid who incites a bully into beating up another kid - both of them share the fault.

I don't entirely agree. I do agree the Pastor was a fool, he knew that his actions would get the Muslims angry. which in IMHO make him a bad pastor, which he will eventually need to answer for. (Heb 13:17)

HOWEVER, the deaths lay completely at the feet of the Muslims that committed the acts. they had every right and reason to protest. they had NO right or reason to commit Murder.

CUDA, I agree that violence is NOT the reaction that most civilized humans would have to something as trite a burning a book, even a Holy one. Civilized people would have a far less violent reaction. But what that pastor did, and he knew what he was doing, was essentially go up to the tiger's cage and start poking it with a stick, knowing full well that that tiger would get really PISSED OFF and turn right around and take a swipe at the closet thing he could reach and vent his rage on when the opportunity presented itself. I think that the western world doesn't really appreciate the extent of the anger towards the west from the Muslim world.

[Ferno]

And yet you promote the very thing you rail against. Feeling superior now?

which is what, exactly?

Ferno's one of the few sane people left here. What exactly is he promoting, then?

hey, thanks for having my back. It gets pretty frustrating being the only voice going against all this nuttery.

[Dakatsu]

Can I make the radical proposition that it isn't Islam alone which made them kill people, but their culture as a whole?

We have Muslims here in this nation whom do not kill "infidels" or go on rampages because someone burnt a holy book. I know at least four Muslims, none of whom have tried to stab me, kill me, blow me up, or even complain about my religious beliefs (or rather, my lack of). I'd blame a backwards Afghani culture which would allow violence in retaliation against the Qur'an burning, which is effectively going against their cultural values and beliefs.

We have people who'd attack abortion doctors here, but we do not see this happening daily, because of different cultural values. I normally would hate to call a culture barbaric or uncivilized, but their culture clearly allowed this, and has little condemnation for this.

If it's Islam, then I'd hear of killings in the United States in retaliation to the burnings. We do have Muslims, remember?

As for the Preacher; he's an ★■◆●. He should have known that this could have caused such violence, yet he feels no guilt whatsoever. I respect his right to do what he did, but I don't think he should have done it, and frankly, it could be seen as "shouting fire in a crowded theatre" if he had good knowledge that this could set of riots. I have mixed views on whether he should be charged or investigated.

[CUDA]

Can I make the radical proposition that it isn't Islam alone which made them kill people, but their culture as a whole?

agreed. but with Many Muslim countries their religion IS their culture.

As for the Preacher; he's an ★■◆●. He should have known that this could have caused such violence, yet he feels no guilt whatsoever. I respect his right to do what he did, but I don't think he should have done it, and frankly, it could be seen as "shouting fire in a crowded theatre" if he had good knowledge that this could set of riots. I have mixed views on whether he should be charged or investigated.

agreed again. the Man was a reckless fool and IMHO is not qualified for the Pastorate. as far as charged with a crime, In this country, burning a book and free speech are not crimes.

[Whitewater]

Can I make the radical proposition that it isn't Islam alone which made them kill people, but their culture as a whole?

agreed. but with Many Muslim countries their religion IS their culture.

As for the Preacher; he's an ★■◆●. He should have known that this could have caused such violence, yet he feels no guilt whatsoever. I respect his right to do what he did, but I don't think he should have done it, and frankly, it could be seen as "shouting fire in a crowded theatre" if he had good knowledge that this could set of riots. I have mixed views on whether he should be charged or investigated.

agreed again. the Man was a reckless fool and IMHO is not qualified for the Pastorate. as far as charged with a crime, In this country, burning a book and free speech are not crimes.

I'm not sure how this is all that different from the 5 kids who were pulling a senior prank at a local high school. A cop spots him and chases him. During the chase the officer has a heart attack and dies. They brought charges against the kids for manslaughter because it was their actions that led to the death. Now granted stealing the parking attendants golf cart is illegal while book burning isn't, but their actions still led to another person's death even though they personally didn't partake in the killing.

[Behemoth]

Only in america.
300 lb person spends most of their life at fast food joints, only later to find out they have cardiopulmonary disease and have little chance of survival even with surgery, medicine and eating right, decides to launch a suit against the fast food chains for the simple fact they make their food desirable by using commercial advertisement, and does not contain a warning label saying:
MAY CAUSE BLOCKAGE OF ARTERIAL WALLS, WHICH COULD LATER ON KILL YOU.
I really wish i didn't live in the same country as these idiotic, hand-me-everything-i-want-on-a-silver-platter-or-i'll-sue people.

Provoking a response however, against someone elses faith (might as well say culture and way of life) especially against middle eastern culture (and no, i don't mean americanized "muslims" i mean REAL muslims.) is just like putting a revolver with 5/6 bullets loaded right next to your temple and saying you don't care if it blows off your head.

And BTW, i believe in free speech as a right i'm entitled to perform whensoever i wish, But it isn't always expedient to do so, I can say whatever i want, but it doesn't always benefit.. Using free speech to justify your actions that led to an INNOCENT bystanders death is completely criminal and should be treated as such, People need to learn the line between JUST enough and TOO much.

[Top Gun]

Can I make the radical proposition that it isn't Islam alone which made them kill people, but their culture as a whole?

Though I'd phrase a few things differently myself, Dakatsu is pretty much right on the money with this sentiment. The practice of Islam as a set of religious beliefs isn't any more or less radical than the practice of any other mainstream religion. But when you take centuries of regional poverty and oppression and combine them with a few diabolical individuals who know how to stir up the masses to achieve a certain agenda, you have extremism take hold in a big way. In a certain sense, the whole situation closely parallels the Crusades, with religious fervor being abused to achieve political ends.

[CUDA]

I post on another BB and it has this same topic running, one of the member brought up a very valid point that I thought I'd share

ok, I sat through 5 pages of this drivel and NOT ONE person thought to discuss the role of one Hamed Karzai in this whole incident. The Koran burning was a non-event on US and world news. It was wholly ignored, as it deserved to be, as it was the ignorant act of ignorant people. What inflamed folks in Afghanistan was the fact that Karzai gave a public speech about the burning. Once again, this corrupt bastard whom the US is 'counting' on shows his true stripes: he will appeal to any and all angles which will keep him and his cronies in power. You want to blame something or someone? Look no further.

so does this change the thinking of anyone on this forum. is Karzai as much at fault as Jones? less? more?

[CUDA]

I've already proven that a world of people like me would be great.

A world of Conservatives perish the thought

[flip]

so does this change the thinking of anyone on this forum. is Karzai as much at fault as Jones? less? more?

You have to start weighing motives. Gotta put your self in Karzai's shoes. I would think his hand was forced. Everyone here almost universally agrees it's the culture that fuels the violence and Karzai has to deal with those people and in those terms. He may be exactly like them I don't know, but had this leaked and he himself had kept quiet, he would have been finished. All trust would have been lost for him by the extremists. It's obvious we're trying to win over their hearts and minds rather than exterminate them. Jeez I never knew our military burned bibles as an appeasement. Do these people have no common sense at all???

[Behemoth]

See that's the thing, I don't have trouble admitting that some forms of evolution DO exist, But for a single-celled organism to multiply into a multi-celled organism isn't possible through sexual reproduction, They do it through asexual reproduction, which is not what we are.

[CUDA]

See that's the thing, I don't have trouble admitting that some forms of evolution DO exist, But for a single-celled organism to multiply into a multi-celled organism isn't possible through sexual reproduction, They do it through asexual reproduction, which is not what we are.

So your saying that the afghan's that killed those people produce A-Sexually????

[Behemoth]

I can't say, Heh.