Does this Bother You ?

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:53 pm

Seems the TSA is going from the airways to the high ways. Whats really disturbing (at least to me) is they're asking drivers to report suspicious activity while they drive. Is this not what the old KGB used to require from the Russian citizens? The new road rage will be to report someone so they get pulled over while you get a good laugh:

"Agents are recruiting truck drivers, like Rudy Gonzales, into the First Observer Highway Security Program to say something if they see something.

"Not only truck drivers, but cars, everybody should be aware of what's going on, on the road," said Gonzales.

It's all meant to urge every driver to call authorities if they see something suspicious."

http://www.newschannel5.com/story/15725 ... -statewide

So is the TSA the new goonsquad ? Thoughts please.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:19 pm

Sorry In Oregon it's against the Law for me to use my cell phone to make a call while driving.

but but officer I was just doing my civic duty and narking on that speeder to the TSA

flip · Post by **flip** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:55 pm

Sounds alot like China's family planning legislation. They recruit people from among the public to watch and report any unauthorized pregnancies and as a preventative measure, they have the women in the factories provide a pad with evidence of their menstrual blood to eliminate any secret pregnancies.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:36 am

flip wrote:Sounds alot like China's family planning legislation. They recruit people from among the public to watch and report any unauthorized pregnancies and as a preventative measure, they have the women in the factories provide a pad with evidence of their menstrual blood to eliminate any secret pregnancies.

...and this is like calling in about strange stuff on the highway...how?

(oh god now i'm reading innuendo into that)

flip · Post by **flip** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:43 am

I dunno, I tend to look too far ahead sometimes. It's the precedent that it sets that could then lead to what is currently happening in China. I would think that normally anyone who sees a drunk driver would be compelled on their own to report that person, which is how it is now in this country.

"Agents are recruiting truck drivers, like Rudy Gonzales, into the First Observer Highway Security Program to say something if they see something

When they start "recruiting" people from within the population to do it anonymously,well, that is the exact thought and intent of the Chinese law. The circumstances may be different but the spirit is the same.

Flatlander · Post by **Flatlander** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:08 am

The TSA bothers me, period

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:37 am

What bothers me is this all points to the probability that they have good intel about terrorist attacks using road vehicles are in our future, most likely a large truck loaded with something really bad and it's going to go boom in city or town near some of us.

flip · Post by **flip** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:32 am

Well, for whatever reason, you can bet a group of people who were considering the near future, thought it a good idea to start making the public suspicious of each other. You can bet wherever theses "recruits" go, it will be with a critical eye. Kinda like the chineses

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:36 am

......And honestly reporting suspicious things happening on highways is a pretty weak last line of defense.

The place to apprehend people trying to drive trucks full of explosives is at the procurement/loading/arming stage, not the driving to the destination stage.

A smart and dedicated terrorist will make their truck look typical enough that you won't suspect a thing until it explodes.

That's just my opinion, though.

flip · Post by **flip** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:41 am

Even at that, how many weigh stations do you think these truckers would have to pass to get to their destination undetected? As soon as they pass a weigh station without stopping the DOT would pursue them. Yeah your right Snoopy, it would make loads more sense to just have a heightened awareness at all weigh stations.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:54 am

Flatlander wrote:The TSA bothers me, period

safe transportation not your cup of tea?

flip · Post by **flip** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:11 am

If you were to try and think of what he meant, I would guess he was criticizing the TSA's tactics, not it's existence.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:12 am

flip wrote:If you were to try and think of what he meant, I would guess he was criticizing the TSA's tactics, not it's existence.

the English language provides ample means to express that, without you or me guessing. His words did not.

flip · Post by **flip** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:17 am

Heh.

I was able though but I give that credit to the Word. A discerner of thoughts and the intents of the heart

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:27 am

woodchip wrote:Seems the TSA is going from the airways to the high ways. Whats really disturbing (at least to me) is they're asking drivers to report suspicious activity while they drive. Is this not what the old KGB used to require from the Russian citizens? The new road rage will be to report someone so they get pulled over while you get a good laugh:

"Agents are recruiting truck drivers, like Rudy Gonzales, into the First Observer Highway Security Program to say something if they see something.

"Not only truck drivers, but cars, everybody should be aware of what's going on, on the road," said Gonzales.

It's all meant to urge every driver to call authorities if they see something suspicious."

http://www.newschannel5.com/story/15725 ... -statewide

So is the TSA the new goonsquad ? Thoughts please.

Beyond Rudy's words, I've seen exactly no evidence that the TSA is recruiting run of the mill car drivers. Sure, everyone should report legitimately scary stuff, and the professionals will sort it out. But, the concept of professional over-the-road truckers watching for odd behavior from other commercial truck drivers, or operators of large trucks doesn't strike me as heavyhanded.
They would lose their livelihood for one bogus call-in, for starters. Secondly, the likelyhood of some sort of truck bomb attack in these modern times is by no means far-fetched, so why not recruit all the eyes you can?

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:49 pm

To follow on slicks point, there is just no way that weigh stations are 100% effective at catching a trucker who wants to slip by one without being inspected so who better to spot a truck sneaking through than another trucker who probably knows all the tricks himself?

flip · Post by **flip** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:16 pm

I'm not disputing that, although I don't see how any normal human being could know. I just ran down I-20 for about 50 minutes, the only thing I would be able to report is if someone was driving erratically. The weigh stations could implement x-ray machines at certain intervals, not even all of them. Much more effective than human instinct. No, these kind of things breed distrust and not community, which would be just as effective to build communities and that mindset. If everyone was encouraged to look out after their neighbor and to care for one another, would accomplish the same thing.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:30 pm

The TSA and Homeland Security. What a nice creation to protect our butts from the terrorist boogeyman. Bush and crew's brilliant knee-jerk (or power grab) response to 9/11 by the way. Didn't hear much griping about it back then when most of the country was psychotic with panic during all that terror fear-mongering by Bush and crew either. We have reaped what we have sown, and yes, Obama and his crew have only made it grow into a repressive monster. All so that Republican's can't find an excuse to blame him for some future terrorist attack. And if you think McCain would have done any different, I've got a bridge to sell you............

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:21 pm

What OTR truckers can accomplish is reporting irregularities at truck stops and the like. As Will stated, weigh stations likely won't cut it, as, due to state reductions is expenses, a lot of them are closed half the time. I go back and forth between PA and VA pretty regularly, and seldom see the truck stops operational, in which case little will be discovered.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:12 pm

Well if a Allied Moving or Mayflower truck was getting off the expressway a few miles before the next active weigh station, no one would think twice that it might be trying to avoid the weigh station. Same with a gasoline tanker. I really don't see how a clever terrorist would ever be caught hauling explosives.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:44 pm

TSA looking for more ways to waste ridiculous amounts of time and other peoples money by hassling and harassing innocent people who are the absolute overwhelming majority of travelers? Who'd have figured they would do that...

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:37 pm

The Terrorists?

Flatlander · Post by **Flatlander** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:37 am

callmeslick wrote:
Flatlander wrote:The TSA bothers me, period

safe transportation not your cup of tea?

How many terrorists has the TSA caught?

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:28 am

callmeslick wrote:
Flatlander wrote:The TSA bothers me, period

safe transportation not your cup of tea?

Why then do we have the FBI, CIA, NSA ? Do we need more agencies on the look out? 911 may not of even happened it the infamous "wall" was not erected by politicians so the 3 security agencies were prevented from co-ordinating information. Do you Slick, somehow think the TSA is going to do a better job than the FBI or the NSA? Or do you think we need ever more security agencies because redundancy is a good thing.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:34 am

Spidey wrote:The Terrorists?

The TSA doesn't look for terrorists, they look for more ways to spend taxpayer dollars.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:22 am

As a bonus, people can get strip searched, physically and electronically, for a more pleasurable traveling experience.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:15 am

Flatlander wrote:
callmeslick wrote:
Flatlander wrote:The TSA bothers me, period

safe transportation not your cup of tea?
How many terrorists has the TSA caught?

since when was that their primary mission? They are the Transportation Safety Administration, not HSA....that they have been
asked to contribute some tiny bit to the overall effort strikes me as no big deal.

null0010 · Post by **null0010** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:21 am

callmeslick wrote:
Flatlander wrote:
callmeslick wrote:safe transportation not your cup of tea?
How many terrorists has the TSA caught?
since when was that their primary mission? They are the Transportation Safety Administration, not HSA....that they have been
asked to contribute some tiny bit to the overall effort strikes me as no big deal.

What is the primary mission of the TSA?

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:26 am

null0010 wrote:What is the primary mission of the TSA?

safe air, highway and rail transportation. Is this a trick question?

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:43 pm

I guess the question is; "How much privacy are you willing to give up in the name of security and safety?" The TSA is a good example of the Boiling Frog anecdote. Slowly heat the water and the frog doesn't realize it's being boiled alive until it's too late to jump.

Benjamin Franklin wrote:They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:05 pm

I'm generally very sensitive to that principle, TC, but just don't see it applying to this example.

flip · Post by **flip** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:13 pm

I think your exactly right TC. The trend for the last 100 years has been more and more restrictive. My father had more freedoms than I did and my children less than I. What makes anyone think we will become MORE free?

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:07 pm

callmeslick wrote:I'm generally very sensitive to that principle, TC, but just don't see it applying to this example.

Have you just not been flying in the US recently?

First one can't bring a set of nail clippers, then bottled water is out, then toothpaste, now they want full body scans... The TSA has definitely been turning up the temp since the moment it got behind the dial. I am honestly more willing to accept and deal with the remote risk of terrorists attempting to hijack a plane I am on than I am willing to put up with the certainty of the TSA going further to needlessly consume my time, energy, and tax dollars.

flip · Post by **flip** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:42 pm

Agreed. No one lives forever, but while I am alive I would like freewill.

null0010 · Post by **null0010** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:20 am

callmeslick wrote:
null0010 wrote:What is the primary mission of the TSA?
safe air, highway and rail transportation. Is this a trick question?

How do they accomplish this, and how would they foil a concentrated effort to disrupt travel?

How would the TSA prevent 20 people from boarding an airplane, breaking down the door to the cockpit, and holding the plane hostage with the on-board fire axe?

How would the TSA prevent the coordinated bombing of bus transit?

How would the TSA prevent several people from hijacking construction equipment and demolishing an out-of-the-way railroad junction?

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:52 pm

callmeslick wrote:I'm generally very sensitive to that principle, TC, but just don't see it applying to this example.

Well, the TSA began their downhill slide when they started requiring everyone to be at the airport 2 or 3 hours before departure and making everyone wait in those long lines just for the privilege of being screened, ehem, searched, before getting on the dirty, usually delayed, overcrowded aircraft. Then we couldn't carry certain amounts of liquids in our luggage. There went shampoo and other toiletries that sometimes you can't find in at your destination. Then they started asking us to take off our shoes and stomp around on dirty airport carpets in our formerly clean socks, or worse, bare feet. The icing on the cake though, was those full body scanners that absolutely left nothing to anyone's imagination, all because of potential underwear bombs. Might as well willingly strip for them and give them real entertainment.

Oh wait, they are actually strip searching people for undergarment bombs. Diapers to be more specific. Age doesn't matter either.

http://nation.foxnews.com/culture/2011/ ... bys-diaper

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-06-26/us/f ... r?_s=PM:US

You know what's even worse? The snitty attitude of the airlines, like we're cattle to hauled at their pleasure and not our convenience. Between the TSA and the airline's attitude, I refuse to give them any business like a placid sheep waiting to get shorn.

So now, the TSA is essentially asking people to spy for them out on the highways. Rat on your fellow citizens if you think they are doing something suspicious. How well do you think that'll work out? Amongst a bunch of already terrorist paranoid people because the government said we need to watch out for ......... something????? Real great idea in thought, really lousy in application. It's creeping control by slow degrees. That's why it's so insidious. People don't know they've lost their freedom until one day, they suddenly realize they're fully controlled, can't ever get rid of it and they allowed it to happen all in the name of security. In a free society, we have to take the risk that someone might kill us on purpose. Is that any different than some drunk driver killing you because they decided to drive plastered? I don't see drunk driver laws getting more restrictive, but I sure see security getting more invasive. Where's the priories here?

By the way, most people are suspicious by nature and would probably report something weird going on to their local police anyway. We just don't need the government telling us to do it for them officially.

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:04 am

I agree TC. I personally think that uniformed air marshals would be a better way to do it - it gives the passengers a visible presence while not creating a huge inconvenience.

TSA is too big, and takes too many liberties, IMO.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:26 pm

snoopy wrote:I agree TC. I personally think that uniformed air marshals would be a better way to do it - it gives the passengers a visible presence while not creating a huge inconvenience.

TSA is too big, and takes too many liberties, IMO.

fine. This applies to highway safety, and long haul truckers, how?

null0010 · Post by **null0010** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:25 pm

What does the TSA do for highways and truckers?

flip · Post by **flip** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:35 am

Uh Oh, The Riddler's back

.