Whatever happened to politeness?

[Tunnelcat]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/13/justice/f ... index.html

I know we're becoming a violent society and I know what this guy did in his sudden rage was an overreaction and criminal homicide, but what's sad with this whole incident is that it could have been avoided if everyone had even an ounce of politeness towards one another in this situation. Why didn't the guy doing the texting just have said sorry when the man behind him complained about it and then stopped using his cell phone like a nice person would have? What was so important to be texting about that it couldn't have waited until the movie was over? Why keep doing something that's clearly self-centered behavior and pissing off another movie patron? Why didn't the theater manager even respond to this man's complaint in the first place either?

I've been in theaters while some jerk is using his phone and the light from the screen is very bright. I've had boorish people yakking loudly behind me and all I've gotten is dirty looks and more yakking, plus some added seat kicking when I've asked them nicely to stop. Then I'm the one who ends up having to move to another seat, not the jerks, because I know if I get pissed off and start arguing, I'm going to be the one that gets a drink thrown on me, or kicked out of the theater. WTF is wrong with people? Did the schools and parents quite teaching politeness in school or something?

[callmeslick]

concealed carry to the rescue. Gawd, people are stupid if they don't see a contributing factor there.....

[Tunnelcat]

My point isn't that a gun was used. Anything can become a weapon. The man behind could have just as easily used a knife, or his hands. It's the events that led up to the shooting I'm questioning. My point is why didn't the guy put away his cell phone when he was asked like any nice person would have? Why be a complete jerkoff and risk a violent confrontation in the first place, especially with your wife sitting right next to you? Why not be nice first, before someone gets mad? Why didn't the theater manager do something to diffuse the situation before it got out of hand when the complainant asked for a remedy?

[CDN_Merlin]

No one cares anymore. That is what I've come up with. No one cares about anyone except themselves. NO one holds doors anymore, says thank you, says excuse me if they bump you in the hallway etc. Parents are not doing their jobs anymore. You can't spank a child anymore which I believe is part of the problem. We are doing everything we can not to hurt the feelings of a child even if they do something wrong that it in itself is wrong.

Sadly the dead man had a lot of years left to live yet the murderer is 71 and probably didn't have to much time. He was also a retired cop and should of known better.

[Will Robinson]

concealed carry to the rescue. Gawd, people are stupid if they don't see a contributing factor there.....

Lol!
He is a retired cop, they don't need a permit.

Those of us who belong to the most law abiding sub group of americans (after the under age 10 group) take offense at your lame attempt to smear us with the murderous deeds of a member of a group that is no where near as upstanding as we are!

But we totally understand your need to fabricate scenarios that might enable you to do that. It's who you are and we, as a group, defend your right to be so damn stupid and predictably wrong.

[Spidey]

tc blames the upbringing…slick blames the gun.

Just an observation….

Screw what actually happened...blame the gun...gard damn gun violence!

[woodchip]

My point isn't that a gun was used. Anything can become a weapon. The man behind could have just as easily used a knife, or his hands. It's the events that led up to the shooting I'm questioning. My point is why didn't the guy put away his cell phone when he was asked like any nice person would have? Why be a complete jerkoff and risk a violent confrontation in the first place, especially with your wife sitting right next to you? Why not be nice first, before someone gets mad? Why didn't the theater manager do something to diffuse the situation before it got out of hand when the complainant asked for a remedy?

Part of the problem may very well be how impersonal people have become because they only text each other instead of having eyeball to eyeball contact. They no longer know how to be civil as they don't have to be when they text or post and there is no real consequence because of it.

[Tunnelcat]

No one cares anymore. That is what I've come up with. No one cares about anyone except themselves. NO one holds doors anymore, says thank you, says excuse me if they bump you in the hallway etc. Parents are not doing their jobs anymore. You can't spank a child anymore which I believe is part of the problem. We are doing everything we can not to hurt the feelings of a child even if they do something wrong that it in itself is wrong.

Sheesh, I hold doors for people whenever possible, young or old, male or female. I let people in front when they want to change lanes on the freeway. I say excuse me if I bump someone. I wasn't necessarily taught some of that either. Some of that is just plain courtesy because I'd appreciate being treated nice in the same situation. No one must like being treated nice, because they don't treat people nice themselves.

Sadly the dead man had a lot of years left to live yet the murderer is 71 and probably didn't have to much time. He was also a retired cop and should of known better.

You're right that he should have known better. He was trained. But maybe he'd had too many nasty interactions with people when he worked as a cop, and all that bottled up frustration boiled over in one instant. Sad. Now some kid doesn't have a father because he couldn't respect another person's simple request.

[CobGobbler]

I attribute this to the "always-on" part of society. People can't even sit through a two hour movie now without checking their twitter feed, posting something on facebook, or whatever else the kids are using these days. I haven't had facebook in over a year, but I get yelled at by people when I go do something without my cell phone. Why would I carry my cell phone on my morning run? Or at the gym? Or on the golf course?

As for the violent reaction, well the American society is an extremely violent one. The gun was just an instrument, had the guy possessed a knife, box-cutter, bazooka, or an Abrams tank then he would have used that.

[Top Gun]

concealed carry to the rescue. Gawd, people are stupid if they don't see a contributing factor there.....

Lol!
He is a retired cop, they don't need a permit.

Obviously they should, if this nutjob was any indication.

I mean, I've been pissed at people being rude in theaters too, but I don't think blaming the victim in any way solves the underlying issue here. Though I expect the NRA is already masturbating furiously over their chosen response.

[Will Robinson]

concealed carry to the rescue. Gawd, people are stupid if they don't see a contributing factor there.....

Lol!
He is a retired cop, they don't need a permit.

Obviously they should, if this nutjob was any indication.

I mean, I've been pissed at people being rude in theaters too, but I don't think blaming the victim in any way solves the underlying issue here. Though I expect the NRA is already masturbating furiously over their chosen response.

I think you just mastrubated over the notion that the NRA's mission has any connection to the murderer's!
Now go wash your hands.

[Top Gun]

Opposing anything resembling more stringent background checks and licensing requirements has everything to do with what happened here. Apparently this guy was given a complete pass just because he was once a cop, when he was obviously several nuggets short of a Happy Meal and shouldn't have been allowed anywhere near a gun.

[CUDA]

Ya I'm sure they never do background checks including psychological exams when you apply to become a cop. NAH

[callmeslick]

Ya I'm sure they never do background checks including psychological exams when you apply to become a cop. NAH

valid point, CUDA, but things change....people change. In this case, the guy had apparently confronted someone at the same theater a month earlier. Let's get to the core point here: HE SHOT SOMEONE after being attacked with popcorn. And then, his lawyer(briefly) suggested a possible self defense (stand your ground) tack in court. As was stated by someone above, this has EVERYTHING to do with the attitude in this nation towards the appropriateness of carrying weapons in public, the public pronouncements by the NRA and yes, our gun nut culture.

[Will Robinson]

Ya I'm sure they never do background checks including psychological exams when you apply to become a cop. NAH

valid point, CUDA, but things change....people change. In this case, the guy had apparently confronted someone at the same theater a month earlier. Let's get to the core point here: HE SHOT SOMEONE after being attacked with popcorn. And then, his lawyer(briefly) suggested a possible self defense (stand your ground) tack in court. As was stated by someone above, this has EVERYTHING to do with the attitude in this nation towards the appropriateness of carrying weapons in public, the public pronouncements by the NRA and yes, our gun nut culture.

The "attitude of the appropriateness" is well founded. Many hundreds of assailants every year are shot and killed by civilians in justifiable homicide. Over 150,000 times per year civilians use weapons to stop imminent violent threats

That is why the opposition to civilians bearing arms has to try and fabricate a foundation out of such nebulous content as you are now.

The NRA hasn't been involved in certifying law enforcement in over a century.
The NRA's efforts have not been aimed at enabling the retired police officers in America to carry concealed weapons because THEY already have that ability!
Government gave it to them! Or more precisely, Government retained that privilege for itself....
They don't need the advocacy of the NRA, they are the elite few who were exempt from the restrictions the rest of us had to fight to have lifted!

Civilians with concealed carry permits are the safest, most law abiding adult sub group in the country. If you are going to try to assign guilt by association, as you are, you should be blaming Cops and their culture, a much more criminally prone group, or elitist government employee culture...or people over 65....NOT a group that has a relatively angelic history by comparrison.

But then logic isn't in your bag of political agenda tools so of course you will get it wrong.
If there was no NRA lobby funding Repubs but there was a Retired Government Employees Union funding them you would be here blaming the Gov. Employee culture for this shooting.
And if you had chosen to be a repub instead of a dem you would flip all this over and be on the other side of the argument!
That is the sad reality that you bring us. You don't bring ideas. You bring dogmatic loyalty at the expense of ideas.

[callmeslick]

each to their own, Will. I know, were it my state, how I'd deal with the Florida carry reality.
I would NOT go to public venues unless absolutely necessary. Essentially, I would boycott theaters, for example. And, I would work like the devil to encourage all sensible citizens who would prefer to go to a movie without fearing that some ★■◆● with a gun is going to start shooting over drivel. And, I would spend serious cash to make that happen and to influence any election I could that would change the outcome. Luckily, I live in a state with more common sense, and the other home is in a state with at least SOME common sense around where guns are appropriate to carry.

[woodchip]

As was stated by someone above, this has EVERYTHING to do with the attitude in this nation towards the appropriateness of carrying weapons in public, the public pronouncements by the NRA and yes, our gun nut culture.

This has nothing to do with the right to carry and everything about being courteous in public. This was a ex-cop that did the shooting so are you saying all off duty/retired cops should not carry? The only culture that is nuts is that of the left constantly finding a incident to bemoan the 2nd amendment.

[Will Robinson]

Slick, you referenced the 'proper place to carry'. Why is a theater not a proper place?
And please give an example of where a proper place would be and why you see it that way.

[callmeslick]

Slick, you referenced the 'proper place to carry'. Why is a theater not a proper place?

in my mind, I don't wish to be entertained and have to wonder if some loon is going to take offense to something minor and start shooting.

And please give an example of where a proper place would be and why you see it that way.

I might be alright with folks carrying in a public space like a parking garage or the like, if they feel that insecure and scared. I would demand that all weapons be checked at stores, entertainment venues(especially those serving alcohol), churches, schools or any other place where people wish to be relaxed or in which children are present.

[Spidey]

I agree with that last point…in fact I was actually going to make that exact point last night in response to TG’s post…then I came to my senses and remembered that the problem there is, without metal detectors at the doors, the bad guys would be the only ones with guns…and that entire line of reasoning…which is the very basis for citizens having the right to carry in the first place.

[Will Robinson]

Spidey has shown the problem.

Its funny to watch slick suggest the concealed weapons permit holders can carry in certain places that he finds to be dangerous enough to warrant it but he's quick to try and pass it off as his attempt to placate the paranoia of the permit holder that justifies his approved locations. Why in the world would he want to allow paranoid people to carry a gun if he's convinced they are going to shoot innocent people?!? My best guess is he would do something like that out of political expediency. Great moral/ethical foundation upon which to build one's principles!

There really is nothing gained in limiting 'where' it can be done by the law abiding. We already have violent criminals who will carry them anywhere they please. Limiting the permit holders to certain locations only serves to placate the fears of people like slick...and establish known soft target areas for the criminals who don't care what slick wants them to do.

So his suggestions don't reduce the likelihood of violent assault by any measurable degree. They decrease the likelihood of a deterrent. And this he would do based solely on his fears for what might happen. Unfounded fear. The very thing he projects on those he would restrict.

I think a great solution to address both sides concerns, regardless of there validity, is to develop much better non-lethal means of defense.
Then let people use it anywhere. No bystanders getting killed. No innocent people mistakenly getting killed, at least not by the 'good guys'. Law abiding people have a chance at disarming an armed criminal. etc. the technology is there I believe.

To me, that is a reasonable and responsible way to address the very real threat that is out there. Not trying to fit every reaction to reality through a template designed to protect a political party's best chance of prosperity no matter how ridiculous or ineffective it is as a possible solution.

[callmeslick]

I agree with that last point…in fact I was actually going to make that exact point last night in response to TG’s post…then I came to my senses and remembered that the problem there is, without metal detectors at the doors, the bad guys would be the only ones with guns…and that entire line of reasoning…which is the very basis for citizens having the right to carry in the first place.

glad you somewhat agree, but I am generally of the opinion that too loose regulations around conceal carry leads to a mentality that creates 'bad guys'. I mean, we had guns 30 years ago, and we certainly had 'bad guys', but I can't recall one instance of a shooting as a result of a petty argument in a public place.

[Will Robinson]

I agree with that last point…in fact I was actually going to make that exact point last night in response to TG’s post…then I came to my senses and remembered that the problem there is, without metal detectors at the doors, the bad guys would be the only ones with guns…and that entire line of reasoning…which is the very basis for citizens having the right to carry in the first place.

glad you somewhat agree, but I am generally of the opinion that too loose regulations around conceal carry leads to a mentality that creates 'bad guys'. I mean, we had guns 30 years ago, and we certainly had 'bad guys', but I can't recall one instance of a shooting as a result of a petty argument in a public place.

What reality do you base that opinion upon?

[callmeslick]

once again, Will tries, in vain, to make this about POLITICS. With me, at least, it isn't. I was for sensible gun control when I was largely a Republican, and haven't changed. In fact, as such regs have been loosened, the overall results have reinforced my opinion, if anything. The issue for me, is the downstream effect on people's thinking by relaxing regulations too much, as I stated to Spidey. Utterly nothing to do with politics(in fact, being for stricter gun regs doesn't win many elections). Also, nothing to do with simple politeness. Shooting someone who just threw popcorn at you is not impolite, it is criminal(even Florida state law sees it that way).

[callmeslick]

I agree with that last point…in fact I was actually going to make that exact point last night in response to TG’s post…then I came to my senses and remembered that the problem there is, without metal detectors at the doors, the bad guys would be the only ones with guns…and that entire line of reasoning…which is the very basis for citizens having the right to carry in the first place.

glad you somewhat agree, but I am generally of the opinion that too loose regulations around conceal carry leads to a mentality that creates 'bad guys'. I mean, we had guns 30 years ago, and we certainly had 'bad guys', but I can't recall one instance of a shooting as a result of a petty argument in a public place.

What reality do you base that opinion upon?

the reality I stated, rather clearly, in the final sentence.

[Will Robinson]

I agree with that last point…in fact I was actually going to make that exact point last night in response to TG’s post…then I came to my senses and remembered that the problem there is, without metal detectors at the doors, the bad guys would be the only ones with guns…and that entire line of reasoning…which is the very basis for citizens having the right to carry in the first place.

glad you somewhat agree, but I am generally of the opinion that too loose regulations around conceal carry leads to a mentality that creates 'bad guys'. I mean, we had guns 30 years ago, and we certainly had 'bad guys', but I can't recall one instance of a shooting as a result of a petty argument in a public place.

What reality do you base that opinion upon?

the reality I stated, rather clearly, in the final sentence.

You haven't cited one bit of evidence to support your opinion! You indicted concealed weapons carry laws as the source of the retired cop shooting the popcorn thrower. You have cited concealed carry law as creating "bad guys".
Where do you support those opinions with reality?!?

You have assigned irrational fear to people who support the right to arm themselves for self defense. They can cite real FBI statistics that show gun owners use guns to stop criminals in violent attacks every year many many thousands of times.

What can you show us that supports your opinion and proves it isn't just your fear?

[callmeslick]

You haven't cited one bit of evidence to support your opinion! You indicted concealed weapons carry laws as the source of the retired cop shooting the popcorn thrower. You have cited concealed carry law as creating "bad guys".
Where do you support those opinions with reality?!?

because in days gone by, with tighter regs, you didn't EVER hear of someone so emboldened with their 'power' that they ever considered shooting someone in a public place over thrown popcorn. We are CREATING monsters, whether you have to have more 'facts' to be convinced of that, or not.

You have assigned irrational fear to people who support the right to arm themselves for self defense. They can cite real FBI statistics that show gun owners use guns to stop criminals in violent attacks every year many many thousands of times.

inside movie theaters? Who knew that violent attacks were a threat?

What can you show us that supports your opinion and proves it isn't just your fear?

I'm sure as hell not the one acting out of fear here.

[Will Robinson]

You haven't cited one bit of evidence to support your opinion! You indicted concealed weapons carry laws as the source of the retired cop shooting the popcorn thrower. You have cited concealed carry law as creating "bad guys".
Where do you support those opinions with reality?!?

because in days gone by, with tighter regs, you didn't EVER hear of someone so emboldened with their 'power' that they ever considered shooting someone in a public place over thrown popcorn. We are CREATING monsters, whether you have to have more 'facts' to be convinced of that, or not.

That is obviously your 'opinion' and we all know how fond you are of declaring your opinion as fact. But it isn't. So after asking and getting a dodge repeatedly I'll assume you have tried to come up with something of substance and failed.

You have assigned irrational fear to people who support the right to arm themselves for self defense. They can cite real FBI statistics that show gun owners use guns to stop criminals in violent attacks every year many many thousands of times.

inside movie theaters? Who knew that violent attacks were a threat?

Who knew?!? How about these people?

Too bad that retired cop wasn't sitting in the front row in Aurora Colorado instead of Florida! He could have had a target worthy of shooting and 12 dead people and 70 injured might not be the reality.

Who knew? Lol!

What can you show us that supports your opinion and proves it isn't just your fear?

I'm sure as hell not the one acting out of fear here.

You have had ample opportunity to prove that for your part and failed miserably.
For my part, see the above.

[Heretic]

This is just another reason to add to my list of why I built a home theatre in my basement with 120 screen popcorn maker and all.

[CobGobbler]

His little .380 would have bounced off Holmes' body armor.

Only question I have since you guys always seem to say there needs to be more guns, how in the world can there be an armed security guard in every room, in every mall, in every school, every building, every car, pretty much everywhere at all times? That's the only thing you guys ever really say, just curious how you'd go about that. Clearly even ex-cops with a stellar record can't be trusted completely now.

I have a 357, but I don't really bring it out with me. Went to the movies last month (17 bucks for imax is insane btw), but why the ★■◆● would I need to bring it with me to watch the Hobbit? The craziness in this country astounds me.

[callmeslick]

This is just another reason to add to my list of why I built a home theatre in my basement with 120 screen popcorn maker and all.

good, if antisocial, solution.
Oh, and Cob hits my whole point in his last line about what craziness have we come to that people find it acceptable(some would even say preferable) that we live our entire lives in armed camps, ever vigilant for violence. Shoot me,first. Seriously......who the feck finds that prospect peaceful?

[Will Robinson]

I never suggested we need armed camps or guards in every store/room.
That's a straw man argument or simply the manifestation of an inability to grasp the nuance of the discussion.

I went to see The Hobbit twice.
Both times I had a good flashlight and a 9mm as I almost always do.
It was very peaceful. I had no fear. My children were as safe as I could make it for them.

No one knew I was armed. No one was hurt. If someone had thrown popcorn at me I wouldn't have turned into a bad guy as slick would have you believe.

If someone tried to shoot up the place I might have shot them if the situation provided me with a clean shot. Otherwise I was just as vulnerable as the 12 dead people in Aurora.

Not a perfect solution by any means but it sure beats having no chance.
To me its like a seatbelt in the car. It might help. If I do my part correctly at least it won't hurt.

[callmeslick]

I never suggested we need armed camps or guards in every store/room.
That's a straw man argument or simply the manifestation of an inability to grasp the nuance of the discussion.

I didn't say YOU did, Will, but you have to admit there are a segment out there who simply suggest more guns are needed, in more places, for our own safety and well being. I disagree.

I went to see The Hobbit twice.
Both times I had a good flashlight and a 9mm as I almost always do.
It was very peaceful. I had no fear. My children were as safe as I could make it for them.

what earthly purpose did the 9mm serve? The flashlight is always good with kids especially, but the 9mm, no earthly reason you are ever going to need it. None.

No one knew I was armed. No one was hurt. If someone had thrown popcorn at me I wouldn't have turned into a bad guy as slick would have you believe.

I wouldn't automatically assume you are correct, frankly. But, the point isn't that you would or wouldn't. It's whether the nature of carrying a gun around influences one in a few thousand to alter their rational thinking. If so, that is proof enough and one too many.

If someone tried to shoot up the place I might have shot them if the situation provided me with a clean shot. Otherwise I was just as vulnerable as the 12 dead people in Aurora.

well reasoned opinion. I agree completely.

Not a perfect solution by any means but it sure beats having no chance. To me its like a seatbelt in the car. It might help. If I do my part correctly at least it won't hurt.

so there is one Aurora incident in, what, maybe 35 MILLION movie seatings over the past 10 years in this country? And, you feel those odds require that your family needs armed escort? That's borderline paranoid.

[CDN_Merlin]

The problem with having a weapon is if things get out our hand (get into an argument with someone) some people are more likely to pull it out and use whatever weapon they have. It makes people feel more confident because of it and so they escalate things more knowing they can protect themselves instead of just leaving before it gets out of hand.

My 2 cents

[callmeslick]

The problem with having a weapon is if things get out our hand (get into an argument with someone) some people are more likely to pull it out and use whatever weapon they have. It makes people feel more confident because of it and so they escalate things more knowing they can protect themselves instead of just leaving before it gets out of hand.

My 2 cents

my thoughts exactly.....but, apparently Will and others will not find that as mind-numbingly obvious without hard numbers to 'prove' it.

[Will Robinson]

I went to see The Hobbit twice.
Both times I had a good flashlight and a 9mm as I almost always do.
It was very peaceful. I had no fear. My children were as safe as I could make it for them.

what earthly purpose did the 9mm serve? The flashlight is always good with kids especially, but the 9mm, no earthly reason you are ever going to need it. None.

1) I have already proven that is a lie. And the impetus for this thread proves that as well! If the dead guys wife had pulled a 9mm out and shot the retired Cop she would have saved her husbands life. Granted that's a lot of planets to line up but between the examples of Aurora and her dead husband it is obvious to all the rest of us that you have, once again, proclaimed something that is untrue to be true. Why do you do that so much? (Rhetorical, please don't look for a chart the shows you are never wrong....you might break Google or something)

2) I don't go armed to the theater in reaction to Aurora. I go armed most places since long before Aurora and it is the transition zones between places that get most of my attention. Parking lots,stopping for gas, etc. Leaving the gun in the car when entering a low threat area isn't wise.
My CWP was paid for by my jury duty compensation on a murder trial where we put one 15 year old away for 25 years and his two accomplices went free....

No one knew I was armed. No one was hurt. If someone had thrown popcorn at me I wouldn't have turned into a bad guy as slick would have you believe.

I wouldn't automatically assume you are correct, frankly. But, the point isn't that you would or wouldn't. It's whether the nature of carrying a gun around influences one in a few thousand to alter their rational thinking. If so, that is proof enough and one too many.

I would love to see the science that supports your assertion that a hunk of steel influences anything other than maybe a magnet or a bad guy you point it at!

The person carrying the gun may be screwed up but it isn't the gun that does it. More importantly, and I mentioned this before but you no doubt skimmed right over it, of all the people in America, we CWP holders are statistically the least likely to commit ANY crime. So, as I said before, using your claimed motive for finding the cause, why haven't you indicted Cop culture or senior citizens since both of those groups are much more likely to go off the mental stability edge?!?

so there is one Aurora incident in, what, maybe 35 MILLION movie seatings over the past 10 years in this country? And, you feel those odds require that your family needs armed escort? That's borderline paranoid.

[/quote]

Already addressed that but just want to make it clear. I'm not armed because of any one incident. I'm armed because of many incidents and I find myself to be good at moving toward a threat instead of flinching. I'm a sheepdog by nature.
At one point I considered disarming and my conscience wouldn't let me do it. It really is that simple.
I don't care if you want to go unarmed. Good for you. But don't try to take that choice away from me based on all this unfounded fear that you have of me.
I'm not paranoid, I'm eyes wide open.
You are the guy who declares things didn't happen that did and who declares cause and effect when there is no sound reason to support it!

[CDN_Merlin]

If no one had a right to carry a concealed weapon, less people would have one to start with. Less weapons = less violence. I understand that sane law abiding citizens are less likely to use a gun in an argument but you can never be to sure.

[Top Gun]

Its funny to watch slick suggest the concealed weapons permit holders can carry in certain places that he finds to be dangerous enough to warrant it but he's quick to try and pass it off as his attempt to placate the paranoia of the permit holder that justifies his approved locations. Why in the world would he want to allow paranoid people to carry a gun if he's convinced they are going to shoot innocent people?!? My best guess is he would do something like that out of political expediency. Great moral/ethical foundation upon which to build one's principles!

The only reason people have a desire for concealed carry in the first place is because they're paranoid to some degree, and your later statements exhibit this clearly. You're seriously on the lookout for "bad guys" when you go to the movies, or pump your gas, or go pretty much anywhere in public? What sort of sad Wild West fantasy are you living in? And you know as well as I do that if there had been someone carrying in that darkened theater in Aurora, they would have been far more likely to shoot up the back of a chair or hit another civilian than come anywhere close to stopping the shooter.

You know I've seen more than one European state every time one of these incidents happens that they view this phenomenon as Americans apparently being willing to accept innocent body counts just for the sake of preserving as unrestricted a gun culture as possible. They don't understand why these news stories don't get the vast majority of the population outraged and pushing back against this level of unbridled access to firearms. I'd say I didn't understand either, but between you lot and a certain three-lettered organization, I think I understand all too well.

[callmeslick]

on another forum, one member took it down to(and he's pro-gun), people should just watch out about who they piss off. Really? Maybe the original title here is sort of accurate. When, in a supposed civilized, 'polite' society, did it become OK to injure or even kill someone, merely because that person 'pissed you off'?? And, to TGs point(well taken): you clearly got the reason I didn't respond directly to Will's reply to me. He showed the world that my estimate was correct. He lives life in a constant state of paranoid delusion, that danger lurks at every turn. Yet, any casual observer would watch the paths his life takes and realize that the chances of needing deadly force that arise are, at best, VERY minimal. Mostly nonexistent.

[Top Gun]

There are places, like certain areas of certain cities, where I could definitely see concealed-carry being a sound option for those who live there. (West Philly? Camden? Hell yes.) But the vast majority of us will essentially never find ourselves in a situation where it becomes necessary. At least it's nice to have one's thoughts on the overall mental health of this folder confirmed again.