Descent 1 1/2

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:39 am

That's great to know! I'm waiting with impatience

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:33 pm

All I have on some levels (not sharing the names

) is a reactor room, and... well... a whole level.
P.S. Can I add a Helix cannon in a D1 secret level?
Dang it! Just spoiled one of my levels!

Naphtha · Post by **Naphtha** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:54 am

Uhh... Pretty sure he wanted any D2 weapons in the first third of the game to be restricted to a few simple missiles. I get the feeling that as much as it might be in line with the official Parallax levels, making a gun as strong as the Helix obtainable that early on would conflict a little too much with what Xfing had in mind.

Anywho, finally finished the Brimspark level I'd been working on and uploaded it to the Dropbox (I don't mind if you rename it, btw, Xfing, I'm not sure if the name fits that well

). At least, I'm pretty sure I've finished my bit, since it is plenty big and interconnected so I might have missed a doorway or room that still leads to nowhere. I've inserted keys, triggers, a single easier robot type to make sure each matcen works, and a suggested location for where a Full Map could be placed. Like I said, I tried to make this one a little more warts-and-all than Circularis was, so I hope I captured more of the Brimspark feel with it while still using more of the D1-ish textures from Mars and Maximum's Brimspark levels.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:58 am

Naphtha wrote:Uhh... Pretty sure he wanted any D2 weapons in the first third of the game to be restricted to a few simple missiles. I get the feeling that as much as it might be in line with the official Parallax levels, making a gun as strong as the Helix obtainable that early on would conflict a little too much with what Xfing had in mind.

Anywho, finally finished the Brimspark level I'd been working on and uploaded it to the Dropbox (I don't mind if you rename it, btw, Xfing, I'm not sure if the name fits that well ). At least, I'm pretty sure I've finished my bit, since it is plenty big and interconnected so I might have missed a doorway or room that still leads to nowhere. I've inserted keys, triggers, a single easier robot type to make sure each matcen works, and a suggested location for where a Full Map could be placed. Like I said, I tried to make this one a little more warts-and-all than Circularis was, so I hope I captured more of the Brimspark feel with it while still using more of the D1-ish textures from Mars and Maximum's Brimspark levels.

Great, gonna check it out in a minute then make updates in the OP and on Dateiliste. I'll also give you some feedback. As for the name - you go ahead and come up with one, no problem with that

PS would you mind uploading your missions in .HOG format, rather than just rl2? Much easier to play that way.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:38 am

Ok, played the level!

As expected, a well-made and beautiful level. The texture choice is superb, the atmosphere is as Parallax as it can get and there is plenty enough of D1 touches. Wonderful work!

Three things:

- Please try to add like 2-3 more secret doors throughout the level. These only start appearing at all very late into the level and that's not very good for exploration thrill. That said, I wasn't able to figure out the "open wall" secrets on my first flythrough, so good job there.
- There is a door within the red area that is itself marked as red, but not set to require the red key, so it displays as a regular, green door in the automap. Breaking the convention a little ;p
- There is a green, slime grate in the red area, doesn't fit very well with the lava - it sticks out like a sore thumb especially since there is plenty of other mini-grates of the regular variety in the level.

Other than that, great job. I enjoyed the level as much as I did Circularis. I'm gonna make adjustments to the level list to account for the level you made. I think the name can stay, the entry area actually fits it quite well.

Naphtha · Post by **Naphtha** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:58 am

That second point was actually intentional, inspired by Level 18 of First Strike doing the same thing. But I can change that with the rest and reupload it if you want.

As for Circularis, can you remind me what your recommendations were? I think I'll go back and take care of them as well.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:56 pm

Haha, emulating bugs are we? Creative.

Naphtha · Post by **Naphtha** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:55 pm

All right, so I actually went back and did the quick update things, including two or three aesthetic changes to Circularis that I think were suggested a while ago. If you like, I can also cut down on the secondary texture usage a bit more so it looks a little less busy or such.

In the meantime, I've been thinking about the First Strike part of the set and I might have a couple friends in the Rangers who could contribute a nice level or two for it. Shall I spread the word over there?

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:20 am

Naphtha wrote:All right, so I actually went back and did the quick update things, including two or three aesthetic changes to Circularis that I think were suggested a while ago. If you like, I can also cut down on the secondary texture usage a bit more so it looks a little less busy or such.

In the meantime, I've been thinking about the First Strike part of the set and I might have a couple friends in the Rangers who could contribute a nice level or two for it. Shall I spread the word over there?

Oh my, I had no idea that red door overlook was intentional, haha. Look like I'm not astute enough or haven't played enough Counterstrike. Heh.

As for Circularis, I remember that the only thing I thought you could still do was replace yellow lights with white ones - yellow ones are not breakable and I don't recall them ever being used in Counterstrike - in fact the only time I recall yellow lights ever being used were levels 8 and 9 of First Strike. But I kinda gave up on that change in time, doesn't really matter THAT much I suppose. The rest of the level looked fine already after the changes you made earlier, and no - there's no problem with "busy" texturing - it's fine.

And sure, you could totally let those people know - the more contributors we have, the more levels we'll have! Just make sure to inform them about the texturing and overall design policy (especially essential for the First Strike levels) and provide them with the initial POG file ("d1optimized.pog" it was called if memory serves) - as you know it contains all the D1 monitors, prison textures and much more right off the bat. It's easier to make a level already in D2 than to have to convert it from D1.

EDIT: Running through the updated level and I've noticed that when facing the exit of the reactor room (the first red door) the red texture on both sides of the door is aligned differently - vertically to the left and horizontally to the right. This is a detailed, "cartoonish" D2 texture, so this is pretty visible. Other than that the level's already cool.

Also, if you get a spare minute, could you take a look at my Eris level and suggest some optimizations or changes? You could also do them yourself, you'd get credited for "secondary mapping"

PigmyRhino · Post by **PigmyRhino** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:15 pm

Hey XFing. I'm extremely interested in helping out this project. I would love to design a level for Chapter 1 if you'd let me.

Let me know if you have any openings for levels in that chapter. I would love to contribute to this

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:58 pm

PigmyRhino wrote:Hey XFing. I'm extremely interested in helping out this project. I would love to design a level for Chapter 1 if you'd let me. Let me know if you have any openings for levels in that chapter. I would love to contribute to this

Hey, PigmyRhino! Good to have ya

As for openings: consult the OP. The project is only now starting to slightly pick up momentum, and as you can see, there's still plenty of levels to go around. You will also notice that many of them take place on dwarf planets that weren't yet discovered by the time of Descent's release, which can help in creating something entirely new, yet still D1.

Let me know which level(s) you'd see yourself making, I'll mark them for you. Don't hesitate to PM me if there are any questions, either.

PigmyRhino · Post by **PigmyRhino** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:19 pm

How about Charon and Orcus. (10 and 11).

Pumo · Post by **Pumo** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:21 pm

I still need to hurry with the custom D1 palette pig, as I've not really touched it since two months aprroximately (been rather working a lot on my Pumo Mines project).

xfing, are you sure you don't really want me to upload the pig to dropbox, even if it's a work in progress? It has all wall textures mostly done, as well as doors. I just need to finish monitors and miscellaneous stuff (including robot textures), but you can start to see how the levels would look with the custom palette.
Note however that the palette may not display right on DLE (DLE can't manage those kind of weird custom stuff very well), and that you will need to replace the textures you have on your POG files with the correct D1 palette versions.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:49 am

Pumo wrote:I still need to hurry with the custom D1 palette pig, as I've not really touched it since two months aprroximately (been rather working a lot on my Pumo Mines project).

xfing, are you sure you don't really want me to upload the pig to dropbox, even if it's a work in progress? It has all wall textures mostly done, as well as doors. I just need to finish monitors and miscellaneous stuff (including robot textures), but you can start to see how the levels would look with the custom palette.
Note however that the palette may not display right on DLE (DLE can't manage those kind of weird custom stuff very well), and that you will need to replace the textures you have on your POG files with the correct D1 palette versions.

No problem, go ahead. I was just wondering how far along the work was, thanks for the info! I'll see how it goes. Also, I know very well that DLE forces you to remove the POG before changing the palette in the first place, so I would need to do that first and reinsert the POG after that. Has worked so far. Actually I'm kinda stoked to se how Level 1 will look with this new palette, haha.

PygmyRhino, sure! I'll mark the levels for you.

Naphtha · Post by **Naphtha** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:13 am

On that note, if it helps, I want to mention that I don't actually use DLE's HOG manager. I prefer to work on individual level files and use a separate program (Yahoma in my case) to compile the HOG, but that's mostly because of some anomaly where Enemy Vignettes had crashed while I was editing in the HOG and when I restarted DLE, only the one level I was working on was left. With a mission of this size, compiling things separately would probably be best.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:19 am

Yeah, DLE's hog manager is sometimes unstable, not very reliable overall.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:28 pm

Pumo wrote:Note however that the palette may not display right on DLE (DLE can't manage those kind of weird custom stuff very well), and that you will need to replace the textures you have on your POG files with the correct D1 palette versions.

If you have further details on what you mean by the palette display, I can take a closer look. Via PM is OK if it's too long, I don't really want to sidetrack the thread too much.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:27 pm

Good news from the technicalities front! With Jeff's guidance, I've overcome the final hurdle to reintroducing Descent 1 sounds to D2 at no expense to existing sounds. All robots, doors and bosses will have their D1 sounds restored. I should be able to finish the file later today.

That coupled with Pumo's new PIG and my alterations to weapons in the HAM will make our D1 levels indistinguishable from as though they were played in Descent 1 - both in appearance and in gameplay. The only difference will be the animations on some monitors, but that too can be taken care of if the POG files are approached individually for every level rather than globally like in my go-to POG file for D1 textures (the number of frames must be identical to one of the D2 monitors for the texture to animate exactly as in there - this couldn't be achieved with some of the monitors).

Pumo · Post by **Pumo** » Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:47 pm

Sirius wrote:
Pumo wrote:Note however that the palette may not display right on DLE (DLE can't manage those kind of weird custom stuff very well), and that you will need to replace the textures you have on your POG files with the correct D1 palette versions.
If you have further details on what you mean by the palette display, I can take a closer look. Via PM is OK if it's too long, I don't really want to sidetrack the thread too much.

Nevermind, it seems this was an issue of older DLE versions.
I tried on 1.11.86 and the palette worked completely fine for my D1-paletted custom PIG, as I named it DESCENT.PIG (as the original one for D1), but it's actually a D2 PIG. I suppose DLE is assigning Descent.256 colors to my custom PIG due to the filename.

-

Xfing, I've uploaded the (incomplete) PIG to Dropbox, on the CustomPIG folder.
I've also included the needed .256 palette file, that you will need to put it on the root of your D2X-Rebirth installation folder.

I've also attached a couple of test levels (they are VERY small) that includes some small POG files with D1 textures actually using that palette, as they should (but you will note that effects, robots and monitors has incorrect colors assigned, until I find the time to fix that).
You can also freely assign the new PIG in DLE for your levels if you wish.

However, You'll need to re-make your custom POG files with the desired D1 exclusive textures, to make it fit to the real D1 palette used on the custom PIG (as the PIG itself uses the palette, but it has the same texture catalog as the other D2 PIGs, without the D1 exclusives).

EDIT: I forgot about one thing! For DTX to correctly read the new PIG file (so you can also make your POG files) you will need to either 'inject' the descent.256 to Descent2.hog, or a better temporary solution, rename the PIG to DEFAULT.PIG (so that it uses default.256 that is already included on the HOG and is the same as descent.256 palette) while using DTX2, and name it back to DESCENT.PIG to work on DLE.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:23 pm

Pumo wrote:I suppose DLE is assigning Descent.256 colors to my custom PIG due to the filename.

Yes, it would do this. I believe this comes all the way back from DMB2, when custom PIGs weren't practical to employ, and each stock PIG had its own matching .256 - at that time it probably made a lot of sense to hide that extra complexity.

Dravis · Post by **Dravis** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:07 am

I would like to help out in this task. I would like to take on at least 1 boss level, any of them will do. As for other levels, I would like to work on 3-5. Levels I would like to reserve Quartzon 1: Quartzon Aqua Distillata Factory, Brimspark 3: Metamorphic Rock Excavation (Boss: Brimspark), Puuma Sphere 3: R'eeie, Limefrost Spiral 2: Salt Distillation Facility.

I look forward to this project, and will enjoy playing this when it is released!

-Dravis_Black

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:23 am

That's a bit complicated... But should work. I'll take a look now! Thanks a lot, Pumo.

EDIT: Checked out those levels and indeed - they showcase the D1 palette very well. The WIP-status of the PIG aside, this really looks good. I really like the twist the D1 palette puts on D2 textures too. Not all of them seem to be usable when D1 is handling their palette, but many have a new, interesting look. I'm specifically referring to the white textures which got that nice, depressing gray tint to them now.

Also, I couldn't help but notice the quality of the levels you made! Keep up the good work. For now I'll refrain from applying the palette to any pre-existing levels, since it isn't yet complete.

Naphtha · Post by **Naphtha** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:40 am

Any chance I could help with the PIG file, Pumo? I might not have the right programs to revise the file, but I could try to convert more of the sprites so they look right in the new palette.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:39 pm

Since people are starting to claim levels, might as well say the levels I have built in secret, and ones that I am building. I will not post ones that I do not want to be mine for sure.

R'eeie
Makemake Mining Shaft
Ceres Military Perimeter
Varuna Military Base
Kuiper Belt Espionage Facility (I have a cool little twist to add, thanks to D2's secret level engine regarding keys

)
S'tlo Sigma (I know I claimed it earlier, but whatever)
Beta Ceti Level 11 (Same as S'tlo Sigma)

Okay, I will post the ones that I am building, but I don't care as much about. I am not claiming these, however. If someone claims one of these (okay, this one), then it is theirs.

Frosted Minerals Abyss

P.S. I have a strategy for planets not in Descent (I used it for Varuna): Build the levels with the texture scheme of the planet nearest to it, and have a lot of facility parts.

Naphtha · Post by **Naphtha** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:14 pm

Falls of Truth is coming along fine, although I'm having a bit of a harder time connecting certain areas together. I'm trying to bring D2 Level 7 to mind, but with a few D1 textures mixed in. I think while I'm at it, though, I'd like to claim Secret Level 3.

And speaking of secret levels, I figure the D2 and Vertigo secret levels are pretty much going to play how you'd expect them to, but what about Secret Levels 1 and 2? Considering each death boots you back to the base level and I figure they'd only be available after the base level is blown up, would they still follow the ultra-harder model of D1's secret levels?

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:35 pm

I'd caution against that...
I've decided to give you guys at least Rav'vin Station and Litter Jungle (rename them how you please, titles aren't a big deal... Rav'vin was just named after a character from a short story I wrote cuz I had no other ideas). Vertigo Gadget I'm keeping to convert to D2X-XL format for my D2X-XL demo mission. I just need to re-update those two maps because I lost the version where I had added webbing textures to the robot makers that were missing them.
If I can get a version of DLE without the uber-messed up 3rd person view, I might build a couple more maps. Although the D2X-XL demo mission is a bigger priority, it only needs a few more levels and I'll probably have plenty of time to create stuff for this once it's done. I might do a Brimspark or Quartzon themed map if there are any of those left over by the time I'm ready -- otherwise I can do either D1 or more Limefrost/Baloris which are the two D2 themes I seem to be best at.

I loved Grandcrisp Oven btw, Naptha... Although I haven't found the blue key yet.

It has a Descent Maximum-esque feeling -- especially like the final Brimspark map from that set, which was one of my favourites. Intentional? (One of the names for that level was Hell's Kitchen).

Oh, and Lightwolf... the hardest trick to creating anything is to learn to hide your influences. No one will blame you for copying a room if you alter it so much they can't tell it was copied XD. One of my tricks for when I'm running low on ideas is to overload a work with so many different references that nobody but me could tease them apart.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:43 am

Nope, I don't think the secret levels from D1 should be super-hard. They should be just like the ones from D2, with some nasty surprises hidden throughout. If anything about them should be super hard, it's finding them! I've made a teleporter in the Sedna level, which is very tricky to find and access, but we can make like 2 levels from which one can access each Secret Level. Without switches making accessing the levels difficult will require much more creativity, but that's fine I guess.

Fox, as for the Litter Jungle - it just so happens that I played through that level a few days ago. I definitely want that level in, although there are some issues that would need to be taken care of beforehand.

Basically we've got two options: either get rid of the "Lifter only" gimmick and place the level in the Vertigo portion of the mission and populate it with bots from scratch, or leave the bots in as they are and put the level into the Solar System portion - in the latter case the level would need to be retextured to eliminate the D2-introduced textures and D2 mechanics such as switches, opening walls etc (not that I remember there being much of that stuff though)

I like the lifter-only gimmick, so I'm for getting the level into the Solar System portion. It could then serve as a shoutout to D1 level 15 with its "medium hulks only" policy. I think it would be optimal if someone with a better taste sense of aesthetics than myself, such as Naphtha, did the retexturing.

Naphtha · Post by **Naphtha** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:47 pm

I really like the idea of levels with a very specific category of robots, since I haven't seen much of that outside of First Strike. If you want a second opinion, is there a copy of the level on Dropbox somewhere that I can take a look at?

EDIT: Also uploaded a partial of Falls of Truth. It's nowhere near done and I'm still struggling somewhat on connector areas, but I'm going to try and tackle it piece by piece. I would like to try a crack at Secret Level 3 as well if at all possible.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:45 pm

Heh, sorry to rain on your guys' parade, but I think repopulating the level to put into the Vertigo or late D2 section is a better idea. The structure isn't very D1, and I like the texture scheme.

The lifter-only gimmick was never really a thing anyway, I still had a bunch of other robot types. And we can still keep a large proportion of lifter bots -- just not quite so large.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:53 am

Alter-Fox wrote:Heh, sorry to rain on your guys' parade, but I think repopulating the level to put into the Vertigo or late D2 section is a better idea. The structure isn't very D1, and I like the texture scheme.

The lifter-only gimmick was never really a thing anyway, I still had a bunch of other robot types. And we can still keep a large proportion of lifter bots -- just not quite so large.

Okay! You're the author, you decide. You can upload the level itself to Dropbox so others can see it and then we'll decide on the Vertigo slot to put it. It is indeed a very Vertigo-like level with a non-standard progression, it also does some theme-mixing a bit too unorthodox for a regular, Counterstrike "ice" level, so it all fits.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:05 am

Dravis wrote:I would like to help out in this task. I would like to take on at least 1 boss level, any of them will do. As for other levels, I would like to work on 3-5. Levels I would like to reserve Quartzon 1: Quartzon Aqua Distillata Factory, Brimspark 3: Metamorphic Rock Excavation (Boss: Brimspark), Puuma Sphere 3: R'eeie, Limefrost Spiral 2: Salt Distillation Facility.

I look forward to this project, and will enjoy playing this when it is released!

-Dravis_Black

Hey, Dravis!

Sorry for replying only now, I totally overlooked your post! It kinda got drowned out in this sea of text, Naphtha only now reminded me that you wrote. About the levels - no problem, I'll sign them as taken by you on the level listing. Also, I'll modify the original post to include the mission concept and design guidelines as it used to - don't even know why I removed it in the first place. Please consult it if you get a while. Naphtha will also brief you.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:50 am

Xfing, random question, why did you allow Dravis_Black to claim levels on his first post, but not mark any of the levels I said I wanted at any post as claimed?

P.S. In Makemake, I have added an alt. exit leading to Kuiper Belt Espionage Facility, which I am building now. And there is a sneaky Earthshaker puzzle in KBEF which I doubt anyone will get in the first ten attempts

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:08 am

LightWolf wrote:Xfing, random question, why did you allow Dravis_Black to claim levels on his first post, but not mark any of the levels I said I wanted at any post as claimed?

P.S. In Makemake, I have added an alt. exit leading to Kuiper Belt Espionage Facility, which I am building now. And there is a sneaky Earthshaker puzzle in KBEF which I doubt anyone will get in the first ten attempts

Because based on your showings so far, I'm not fully convinced you are capable of delivering levels of sufficient quality for the project. I'm also wary of you because of your penchant for plagiarizing stuff. Dravis and PigmyRhino, on the other hand, have been vouched for as competent designers by Naphtha, who's a competent designer himself.

However, keep working on the the levels you're making - if they turn out to be good enough, we'll happily have them. If not, the spots will go to someone else. Also, I'd appreciate if you finished all the levels you are currently making before reserving any more slots.

Dravis · Post by **Dravis** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:47 am

Thanks! I was going to ask you again in a days time. I already began construction on A level, might use it for another project of mine. Again, thank you for letting me be involved in the making of Descent 1 1/2.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:48 pm

Dravis wrote:Thanks! I was going to ask you again in a days time. I already began construction on A level, might use it for another project of mine. Again, thank you for letting me be involved in the making of Descent 1 1/2.

No probs! Stop acting so humble, I'm not really even a big fish myself, as far as making levels is concerned :p

Dravis · Post by **Dravis** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:48 pm

Lol well I try to be as loyal as I can.

It would be nice if you came into the Descent Rangers Mumble (as well as all other contributors) so we can discuss/design levels together. Link to join can be found at www.descentrangers.com. It is actually best way I can be reached as well just in case I am needed immediately.

-Dravis

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:25 pm

Dravis wrote:Lol well I try to be as loyal as I can.

It would be nice if you came into the Descent Rangers Mumble (as well as all other contributors) so we can discuss/design levels together. Link to join can be found at http://www.descentrangers.com. It is actually best way I can be reached as well just in case I am needed immediately.

-Dravis

I don't know if I'm eligible for the Rangers, as I don't really play multiplayer

Dravis · Post by **Dravis** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:29 pm

Everyone is eligible for the Rangers, we play Coops as well. But in all honesty, it is the best way to reach Naphtha and myself. I just figured we could at least be in some sort of area where we could chat physically (whether it is by typing or actually talking), we could get things done faster there. Again, it is all up to you, I won't force you to do something you don't want to do.

-Dravis

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:08 pm

Also, you don't have to be a member to join the chat server.

Alter-Fox wrote:If I can get a version of DLE without the uber-messed up 3rd person view,

I always appreciate explanations

It may not be a quick fix but I won't really know if I don't know what it is.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:42 pm

Lol, the problem is I think it's intentional.
I'll PM you some screenshots so you'll see what I mean.