fascinating read....

[callmeslick]

Pay no attention to this because slick said it never happened. Then again he says that about lots of stuff that is going on

"Number one, if we are to expand this electorate to win, the progressive community needs to solidly be on the side of immigrants... Number two, we reform the immigration laws, it puts 12 million people on the path to citizenship and eventually voters... We will be creating a governing coalition for the long term, not just for an election cycle…"

.

read for comprehension much? Where does that suggest that they are planning on pushing illegal immigrants to the polls?

[Will Robinson]

Uh, in a vacuum it doesn't. Are we all supposed to pretend all the other references to that specific goal that I've posted never happened?
I posted his comments to illustrate they do gloat about the potential of the influx of votes to fund raising audiences.
You said it doesn't happen....and you can still pretend it doesn't if you like.

See the New York example of a recent blatant move on the part of the Dems to allow illegals to vote. Examples of that sentiment are abound. No need to post what everyone hears in the media all the time. If the Dems had their way every illegal would vote, get full benefits and have drivers licenses and anything they want that makes them indebted to the Dem party. That is no secret.

And inspite of your attempts to prevent it I'm guessing people are seeing this and connecting the dots. It would be difficult to not understand the policy changes by Obama and other liberals in charge of the polling process are going to deliver for the Dem party a substantial increase of illegals casting votes as well as enable Dem hacks casting multiple votes by making use of the mail in ballots...same day registration...slack-as-hell-registration and voter identification procedures (as if there is any in many places now).

But don't worry, I included the warning that you said 'none of this stuff happens' and we all know how trusted and revered you think your word is. So you have nothing to be concerned about.

[vision]

...if we are to expand this electorate to win, the progressive community needs to solidly be on the side of immigrants...

So why can't the Republicans do the same thing? Why can't they have policies that appeal to immigrants? This is a nation of immigrants. There has, at every point in this countries history, been massive immigration. It used to be what defined us (of course now we are defined by collective stupidity, but that's another topic. 'Murica).

So tell us again why such a huge part of the population is slanted so heavily toward one party?

Does mob sentiment nullify the law?

This definitely needs some clarification. Which mob? The 11 million immigrants?

Doesn't that highlight an extreme failure on the part of the Republicans?

Failure to what…pander to every possible sub group?...I tell my Hispanic associates that they need a party of their own, all of the time.

Ah, so now it comes out. "Immigrant" is code for "brown people south of the border." Maybe I'm special in the sense that, when I think "immigrant" I imagine the friends I've had who lived here without citizenship, all of them either Chinese or European. All the Hispanics I know were actually born on US soil (though my one girlfriend's mother literally came over the border to give birth then took her back to Mexico, haha. That's cheating I guess, but she's the only one of my friend's with a story like that).

[Sergeant Thorne]

...if we are to expand this electorate to win, the progressive community needs to solidly be on the side of immigrants...

So why can't the Republicans do the same thing? Why can't they have policies that appeal to illegal immigrants? This is a nation of (illegal?) immigrants. There has, at every point in this countries country's history, been massive (illegal?) immigration. It used to be what defined us? (of course now we are defined by collective stupidity, but that's another topic. 'Murica).

I modified it a little bit so that you weren't totally talking out your ass. I swear anyone who tries to pretend that people who sneak across our southern border and people who immigrate and naturalize are the same should be ★■◆●ing shot to save the gene pool.

God damnit, slick, that is exactly what Eliseo Medina was saying! They're just shrewd enough to play it long-term because they would be caught red handed if they tried to push these folks to the polls overnight. These traitors undermine federal law to expand their base. They should be imprisoned, and if I had my way anyone who helped them by trying to take the focus off of "illegal" in "illegal immigrant", or try to paint this as a human rights issue when it isn't/wasn't would be thrown in the stocks.

★■◆● you liars.

On a brighter note, I've met some very decent, straight-forward Hispanic folks in the course of my work. I think we could make a marked improvement in the country by deporting the Democrat party-liners to south of the border, closing the border, and giving the naturalized illegals their property.

[callmeslick]

so Thorne wants to deport people who don't think like him.....how utterly American of him. Please, Sarge, just pack your bags now, because you don't really wish to be an American.

[Will Robinson]

I think ST wants the lawmakers to play within the rules of the law.
I know I do.
And I know the way some of you will excuse any law breaking that benefits your political team confirms you have no integrity worth mentioning.

This current administration, with the impunity granted by the media at large, is blatantly circumventing law in so many areas it makes Nixon look like a cross between Gomer Pyle and the Dalai Lama.

[callmeslick]

I think ST wants the lawmakers to play within the rules of the law.
I know I do.
And I know the way some of you will excuse any law breaking that benefits your political team confirms you have no integrity worth mentioning.

This current administration, with the impunity granted by the media at large, is blatantly circumventing law in so many areas it makes Nixon look like a cross between Gomer Pyle and the Dalai Lama.

puhlease, stick to reality.

[Spidey]

Nice edit vision, you should be ashamed.

Do you even have any shame?

[callmeslick]

Nice edit vision, you should be ashamed.

Do you even have any shame?

actually, he is very accurate in his critique. Most of the folks I've known who were 'illegal' or undocumented immigrants came from either Northern Ireland, Germany or India. Not dismissing the fact that Mexicans and other Hispanics are in the same boat(no pun intended),but illegal immigration from Asia and other places doesn't seem to have quite the same cache with the folks who would denigrate Hispanics.

[Spidey]

so Thorne wants to deport people who don't think like him.....how utterly American of him. Please, Sarge, just pack your bags now, because you don't really wish to be an American.

Yes you are correct...he should just call them names like you do.

[Spidey]

Nice edit vision, you should be ashamed.

Do you even have any shame?

actually, he is very accurate in his critique. Most of the folks I've known who were 'illegal' or undocumented immigrants came from either Northern Ireland, Germany or India. Not dismissing the fact that Mexicans and other Hispanics are in the same boat(no pun intended),but illegal immigration from Asia and other places doesn't seem to have quite the same cache with the folks who would denigrate Hispanics.

Do you even understand the concept of out of context?

My reference to Hispanics was directed at changing the one party system...not immigration!

WTF!

[callmeslick]

I understand the context, but you still generalized and blathered about Hispanics in a thread in which we were discussing voting by undocumented aliens(which statistically doesn't occur to any degree), and the lack of appeal by the GOP to any such immigrant groups. The GOP fails, not only with Hispanics, but with South Asians and others who emigrate here, because they are still entrenched in the blatant entitlement of old, white males. Period. And, as stated, so long as that is the case, they will sink like a brick.

Now, as to your premise that Hispanics should have their own party, I'd say that is a stupid, divisive idea on its own merits. We need unity in this nation to move forward and creating ethnic parties is not the ticket to that. Neither is defacto one party rule in a decade, so it is incumbant upon the GOP to become more encompassing or a third(not a special Hispanic) party to take root and grow into one of the big Two. Howzat for context?

[Sergeant Thorne]

so Thorne wants to deport people who don't think like him.....how utterly American of him. Please, Sarge, just pack your bags now, because you don't really wish to be an American.

Context is important, and I gave it (lying and undermining law). You're all a bunch of lying traitors (you scoff at "traitor" because you don't take the idea of good faith toward a single sovereign nation seriously anyway), and if you dropped dead tomorrow it would be blessing for that reason (not saying it would be entirely justified, all things considered, but it would be a blessing).

If Americans at large weren't so ignorant or busy/aloof there's no way you'd be able to hold your head up peddling this bull★■◆●.

[Foil]

Thorne, slick... do I need to say it?

[Sergeant Thorne]

I was a little surprised to still see my initial post in-tact when I opened it this morning--I think that probably crossed a few DBB lines, strictly speaking. That is what it is. What you do about it is your prerogative. There comes a point when it is no longer decent to allow some things to continue on. For me this was the point. Slick isn't all bad, I'm sure, and he more than likely not wrong about everything, and he's probably fairly intelligent, but he is twisting the truth and backing things which do undermine United States laws and the principles those laws are based upon, and so much the worse if he can do it without consciously lying. I mean to call it out in no uncertain terms. He bears responsibility, despite his unique/different background and perspectives (which I would allow accounts for some disagreements). At the end of the day I'm not a flag waver, and I don't need to fight to maintain some abstract ideal that is our "nation", but I can tell you what is right, decent, and straight-forward, and when someone takes it upon themselves to pursue an agenda which involves the obfuscation of what is right, decent, and straight-forward--that's damaging and it becomes everyone's urgent responsibility to call it out for what it is and deal with it. I make mistakes, I've been wrong before, and I have a lot to learn, but at any time a person has the choice to do what's right or to allow what's right to take a side-seat to some personal agenda. It is a great risk, and indeed cowardly to constantly chalk differences up only to "differences". Ideas win and lose on a daily basis in this world, and people live with the consequences upon consequences, and then stupidly believe that the only consequences we deal with are the most recent... That's not the way the world works. We have a great responsibility to do what's right and to call what is right "right", and what is wrong "wrong", and to fail to take this seriously invites disaster whether or not we're willing or able to recognize it after the fact.

I will say that I don't mean for all of this to necessarily justify every part of my above posts, but I think it is right, and it's some of the reasoning behind my replies.

[callmeslick]

frankly, Thorne, I find it rather amusing how you find me a 'threat' to things that are substantive about this nation. First off, NOTHING I've posted here really runs counter to the traditional idea of the United States, and most celebrate the fact that the nation has the strength it currently does have precisely due to inclusion. I have pointed out that there is NO historical basis for fearing immigrants at the polls. You didn't even have to be a citizen to vote a hundred years ago or so. I find it laughable that Thorne takes it upon himself to 'call me out'. Hell, son, my people were in this country, building it and creating that 'America' you attempt, feebly, to defend, for a hundred years before the freaking revolution. I honor those folks in my posts, and carry forth their ideals in my words.

[Spidey]

I understand the context.....

Utter bull★■◆●!

Vision rearranged my words to try to make me look like a racist.

It seems to me that some people just don’t fit into your little boxes, so you have to force them, by changing the words they use.

You do it all of the time.

[vision]

You didn't even have to be a citizen to vote a hundred years ago or so.

True! But you did have to be white and own property. :/

[woodchip]

And you had to be male. No war on women back then eh?

[callmeslick]

You didn't even have to be a citizen to vote a hundred years ago or so.

True! But you did have to be white and own property. :/

and male until a bit earlier, as noted by Woody.

[Sergeant Thorne]

I find it laughable that Thorne takes it upon himself to 'call me out'. Hell, son, my people were in this country, building it and creating that 'America' you attempt, feebly, to defend, for a hundred years before the freaking revolution. I honor those folks in my posts, and carry forth their ideals in my words.

You are all witnesses that it was Slick and not me that brought his mother into it.

[flip]

No Slick, I watched the movie

[CUDA]

I find it laughable that Thorne takes it upon himself to 'call me out'. Hell, son, my people were in this country, building it and creating that 'America' you attempt, feebly, to defend, for a hundred years before the freaking revolution. I honor those folks in my posts, and carry forth their ideals in my words.

You are all witnesses that it was Slick and not me that brought his mother into it.

well they weren't here before mine

[callmeslick]

well they weren't here before mine

likely couldn't even conceive of that part of the continent even existing.....

[CUDA]

My Grandfather came over on the Mayflower, Dr. Samuel Fuller, and down the line a couple of generations, my Grandmother was a blackfoot Indian.

so my european roots trace to 1620. My American roots trace back to ?????

[callmeslick]

CUDA, how old are you? If your granddad came over on the Mayflower, you have to be up there a few years. My 1663 arriving relative was about 10 generations back!

[Sergeant Thorne]

Well... he was a really great guy.

[CUDA]

CUDA, how old are you? If your granddad came over on the Mayflower, you have to be up there a few years. My 1663 arriving relative was about 10 generations back!

Old REALLY OLD, just ask my kids.

Grandfather 12 generations

I was hoping you'd figure that out without me having to explain

[callmeslick]

I figured it out, but that isn't going to prevent a bit of jest!