a new level of Obama hate stupidity

[woodchip]

You want war with everyone in the Middle East? Grab yourself a gun and hop on over to Libya or Syria and start shooting every terrorist you see woody. You and all the other right wingers haven't come up with any other solution other than to say Obama's not doing the right thing,[removed]

Sorry TC, unlike you who has never served certainly have a lot of gaul calling someone who has "yellow". Of course you are safe in your little bubble because others have.

[Will Robinson]

TC do you really believe that crap about Bush destabilizing the region? Or are you just following along with your team's cheerleaders?

It seems like the region had to be pretty unstable for a group of them to come all the way over here, hijack and fly four commercial jet aircraft as suicide missiles killing around 3000 of us, only 8 months after he was sworn in as President and approximately 2 years BEFORE he ever went to war over there...

But I'm just relying on logic and history to come up with that. I'm sure you are using something else, maybe some kind of special definition of 'destabilizing'?

For the President singly most responsible try Jimmy Carter! Here, read about Zbigniew Brzezinski and look for his comments on how he used the CIA, as Carters National Security Advisor no less, to create an Islamic uprising...

Historical Background

What are the historical origins of Al Qaeda? Who is Osama bin Laden?

The alleged mastermind behind the 9/11 terrorists attacks, Saudi-born Osama bin Laden, was recruited during the Soviet-Afghan war, “ironically under the auspices of the CIA, to fight Soviet invaders”.(Hugh Davies, “`Informers’ point the finger at bin Laden; Washington on alert for suicide bombers.” The Daily Telegraph, London, 24 August 1998).

In 1979 the largest covert operation in the history of the CIA was launched in Afghanistan:

“With the active encouragement of the CIA and Pakistan’s ISI, who wanted to turn the Afghan Jihad into a global war waged by all Muslim states against the Soviet Union, some 35,000 Muslim radicals from 40 Islamic countries joined Afghanistan’s fight between 1982 and 1992. Tens of thousands more came to study in Pakistani madrasahs. Eventually, more than 100,000 foreign Muslim radicals were directly influenced by the Afghan jihad.” (Ahmed Rashid, “The Taliban: Exporting Extremism”, Foreign Affairs, November-December 1999).

This project of the US intelligence apparatus was conducted with the active support of Pakistan’s Inter Services Intelligence (ISI), which was entrusted in channelling covert military aid to the Islamic brigades and financing, in liason with the CIA, the madrassahs and Mujahideen training camps.

U.S. government support to the Mujahideen was presented to world public opinion as a “necessary response” to the 1979 Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in support of the pro-Communist government of Babrak Kamal.

The CIA’s military-intelligence operation in Afghanistan, which consisted in creating the “Islamic brigades”, was launched prior rather than in response to the entry of Soviet troops into Afghanistan. In fact, Washington’s intent was to deliberately trigger a civil war, which has lasted for more than 25 years. (photo: CIA and ISI agents)

The CIA’s role in laying the foundations of Al Qaeda is confirmed in an 1998 interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski, who at the time was National Security Adviser to President Jimmy Carter:

Brzezinski: According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahideen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, [on] 24 December 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise. Indeed, it was July 3, 1979, that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the President in which I explained to him that in my opinion, this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.

Question: Despite this risk, you were an advocate of this covert action. But perhaps you yourself desired this Soviet entry into war and looked to provoke it?

Brzezinski: It isn’t quite that. We didn’t push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would.

Question:When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn’t believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don’t regret anything today?

Brzezinski: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter. We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam War. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.

Question: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic fundamentalism, having given arms and advice to future terrorists?

Brzezinski: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the Cold War? ( “The CIA’s Intervention in Afghanistan, Interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski, President Jimmy Carter’s National Security Adviser”, Le Nouvel Observateur, Paris, 15-21 January 1998, published in English, Centre for Research on Globalisation, http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BRZ110A.html, 5 October 2001, italics added.)

Consistent with Brzezinski’s account, a “Militant Islamic Network” was created by the CIA.

The “Islamic Jihad” (or holy war against the Soviets) became an integral part of the CIA’s intelligence ploy. It was supported by the United States and Saudi Arabia, with a significant part of the funding generated from the Golden Crescent drug trade:

“In March 1985, President Reagan signed National Security Decision Directive 166 … [which] authorize[d] stepped-up covert military aid to the Mujahideen, and it made clear that the secret Afghan war had a new goal: to defeat Soviet troops in Afghanistan through covert action and encourage a Soviet withdrawal. The new covert U.S. assistance began with a dramatic increase in arms supplies — a steady rise to 65,000 tons annually by 1987 … as well as a “ceaseless stream” of CIA and Pentagon specialists who travelled to the secret headquarters of Pakistan’s ISI on the main road near Rawalpindi, Pakistan. There, the CIA specialists met with Pakistani intelligence officers to help plan operations for the Afghan rebels.”(Steve Coll, The Washington Post, July 19, 1992.)....

Or ignore all that and continue being a good little democrat...

[Tunnelcat]

Sorry TC, unlike you who has never served certainly have a lot of gaul calling someone who has "yellow". Of course you are safe in your little bubble because others have.

If I was younger, I'd be perfectly willing to go to war and do some shooting and ass kicking, if women were even allowed. I have no love for this kind of evil and I'd put myself in the line of fire just to see it destroyed. But every Republican politician who says "we need to kill these guys", needs to back up that statement up with what they would actually do. These guys need to HAVE A CONCRETE PLAN OF ACTION if they're going to criticize Obama, instead of blither on like the little blowhard cowards they are that Obama is a weak ineffective wuss who's not doing enough to make more war. Well, what IS enough?

Will, I agree that Bush, Reagan, Carter, Clinton, were all idiots, but Bush was the one who iced the cake. The Arab Spring was a direct result of Bush's wars. He pulled his finger out of the dike. When will the U.S. learn to not mess in the affairs of other nations to our own detriment? Reading your little history piece there shows me the wisdom of that statement. We are our own worst enemy and we deserve the results we get from our meddling. So I say again, to all conservatives, either we bring back the draft and go into a major war and fight until we die or win, or we stay the hell out of other nation's affairs, especially with our favored time honored hands-off method of trying to destroy our enemies by using their enemies as our soldiers, like we did in the Soviet War in Afghanistan and what Bush did again with Tribal Afghanis in Tora Bora. A farmed out army resulting in failure. What a brilliant idea to destroy the Soviets, use the Mujahideen as proxy soldiers, never taking into account of what would happen when we were done using them. Nothing good ever comes of it. We now need to get our hands dirty. The Russians learned their lesson in Afghanistan and got out of a war that wasn't winnable.

[Will Robinson]

A good little democrat will always stick to the ridiculous narrative that the Dem Pres merely inherited a situation and yet every Repub Pres that steps into office has not inherited anything but instead he just 'single handedly' destroyed 'everyone's life'.

You and people like you on both sides are the reason we have the status quo. The reason we get to 'choose' Bush or Clinton next time...

[Tunnelcat]

Not so. I blame LBJ for getting us in up to our armpits in Vietnam, another stupid and senseless war we didn't need to fight. What a waste.

Jon Stewart calls out the idiocy of the whole "Obama not doing enough to stop ISIS but we won't say what we plan to do" meme yet again.

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/full-episode ... ne-lagarde

[callmeslick]

You want war with everyone in the Middle East? Grab yourself a gun and hop on over to Libya or Syria and start shooting every terrorist you see woody. You and all the other right wingers haven't come up with any other solution other than to say Obama's not doing the right thing,[removed]

Sorry TC, unlike you who has never served certainly have a lot of gaul calling someone who has "yellow". Of course you are safe in your little bubble because others have.

not safer because a freaking soul has stepped foot in the Middle East. I figured it woudn't be long before the sadly predictable morph from 'pics of me in the Marines' to 'you who didn't serve'. She has EVERY right to comment on your interweb toughness, or lack thereof.

[woodchip]

You want war with everyone in the Middle East? Grab yourself a gun and hop on over to Libya or Syria and start shooting every terrorist you see woody. You and all the other right wingers haven't come up with any other solution other than to say Obama's not doing the right thing, [removed]

Sorry TC, unlike you who has never served certainly have a lot of gaul calling someone who has "yellow". Of course you are safe in your little bubble because others have.

not safer because a freaking soul has stepped foot in the Middle East. I figured it woudn't be long before the sadly predictable morph from 'pics of me in the Marines' to 'you who didn't serve'. She has EVERY right to comment on your interweb toughness, or lack thereof.

As I have every right to comment as I did. There was no predictability unless you can also predict what someone is going to post in the future. As to being safer, we would of been if Obama had signed a Status of Forces agreement with Iraq and hadn't backed away from his red line in Syria. Now there is toughness.

[Spidey]

She has every right to “comment” but calling a person who actually served “yellow” crosses the line.

[callmeslick]

it takes 'gaul' to be sure! I know a lot who 'served', who show far more bravery behind a keyboard, than they are capable in person.

[Foil]

She has every right to “comment” but calling a person who actually served “yellow” crosses the line.

Yep. I'm removing it.

Note: I know folks don't like to use it, but the "Report post" button is there for a reason. At the very least, it's better than quoting and re-quoting a personal attack.

[Tunnelcat]

I apologize to woody and everyone else here. My comment wasn't meant to refer to you personally as a coward woody. My post came out a little hashed up. I was trying to state my opinions about our spineless politicians who like to sit there on their congressional thrones waving their swords of war in front of the national media, pontificating about how we need to start up yet another costly and probably ill concieved war by sending in our young people to fight and die all over again, with no reference as to HOW they would get enough troops to fight such a war, when most of these stupid politicians have never been in the military at all. I got that point kind of mixed up with woody not giving me an answer on what would be his solution to our ISIS problem. I apologize. You could have at least told me you'd served before I put my foot in my mouth.

By the way woody, you finally did answer my question in your last post above. But remember, when Obama pulled out Iraq, the polls said people were tired of that long and by then very unpopular war and most people were largely in favor of pulling out our troops. In reference to Obama backing away from his red line in Syria, he should have either put up, or kept his mouth shut. As for me, I would not hesitate, nor have any fear of going into the military, and I do mean it. Too bad I'm old and ill, because now I have the orneriness to do it.

EDIT: Fixed the misspellings in the first paragraph. It was late.

[Ferno]

I seem to remember the american people giving a 'hell no' to any action in syria.

[woodchip]

I'm apologize woody and everyone. My comment wasn't meant to refer to you personally as a coward woody.

Apology accepted. Most people would not have bothered to apologize

IBy the way woody, you finally did answer my question in your last post above. But remember, when Obama pulled out Iraq, the polls said people were tired of that long and by then very unpopular war and most people were largely in favor of pulling out our troops. In reference to Obama backing away from his red line in Syria, he should have either put up, or kept his mouth shut. As for me, I would not hesitate, nor have any fear of going into the military, and I do mean it. Too bad I'm old and ill, because now I have the orneriness to do it.

People may have been tired, but people were tired at the end of WW2 but we still kept troops in Japan and Germany. A leader does not always do what the people want but what is best for the country. If we had kept troops in Iraq, ISIS would not be controlling large sections of it. You are correct about Syria.

[Tunnelcat]

I apologize to woody and everyone here. My comment wasn't meant to refer to you personally as a coward woody.

Apology accepted. Most people would not have bothered to apologize

Glad you accepted it. It wasn't my intention to insult your integrity or you personally. By the way, what did you do in the service?

People may have been tired, but people were tired at the end of WW2 but we still kept troops in Japan and Germany. A leader does not always do what the people want but what is best for the country. If we had kept troops in Iraq, ISIS would not be controlling large sections of it. You are correct about Syria.

There is one little problem with going to war. Our government is now carrying so much debt from the previous wars, how do you propose our nation pays for yet another probably large protracted war? The other issue is how to get that bunch of cats that make up Europe and the Middle East on board with us to start yet another messy Middle East war? Europe is still financially shaky from the recession too. Going it alone for the U.S. is getting old. We are not the world's police. Other nations need to stand up and fight this disease if it's going to be eradicated.

By the way, the authorities now know the identity of "Jihad John", who's listed as the most wanted man in the world. There's no punishment too severe for this demon if he's ever caught, and I can think of some pretty heinous punishments just for him.

http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-eas ... 7070922924