No More

[woodchip]

With the latest SC decision, Regulatory agencies will no more be able to make regulation and the have the nation treat them as law. For starters:
The APA “specifies that courts, not agencies, will decide all relevant questions of law arising on review of agency action—even those involving ambiguous laws—and set aside any such action inconsistent with the law as they interpret it.” Roberts continued. “And it prescribes no deferential standard for courts to employ in answering those legal questions.” This was changed with the"Chevron" case.
Justices decided that "“The deference that Chevron requires of courts reviewing agency action cannot be squared with the APA,” the justices said. And "“The only question left is whether stare decisis, the doctrine governing judicial adherence to precedent, requires us to persist in the Chevron project. It does not,” the majority declared. Not to bore you further, read here: https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2024 ... er-bright/

[Ferno]

Brietbart garbage. Nothing of worth.

[woodchip]

Brietbart garbage. Nothing of worth.

What Was garbage? This" The decision overturns the Chevron v. Natural Resources Defense Council precedent that required courts to give deference to federal agencies when creating regulations based on an ambiguous law." or this "“Chevron is overruled,” Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in his majority opinion. “Courts must exercise their independent judgment in deciding whether an agency has acted within its statutory authority.” Is CNN garbage too? https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/28/politics ... index.html
I used Brietbart as they gave more background info, not something like CNN does.

[Tunnelcat]

You could've posted the SCOTUS blog about this instead of slant from a far right wing jackass who's also a convicted felon.

https://www.scotusblog.com/2024/06/supr ... -agencies/

And you could've posted one of the dissenting justice's view, but you didn't. The upshot of this will be a court system clogged up with all sorts of actions when someone powerful, like an oil company, doesn't agree with some federal agency's interpretation of congressional law or regulations. In other words, us lowly people have been screwed since much of these regulations protect our land, air and water, because we certainly don't have the money or clout to go to court when we don't like some federal agency's interpretation of the law.

Kagan, who read a summary of her dissent from the bench, was sharply critical of the decision to overrule the Chevron doctrine. Congress often enacts regulatory laws that contain ambiguities and gaps, she observed, which agencies must then interpret. The question, as she framed it, is “[w]ho decides which of the possible readings” of those laws should prevail?

[Ferno]

Is CNN garbage too?

Yes. Yes it is.

[Isaac]

Is CNN garbage too?

Yes. Yes it is.

Those assholes slandarded my boy, Bernie Sanders. For months years they called him crazy for just wanting to give free healthcare and school... ★■◆● CNN.

[Tunnelcat]

The worst thing this country ever did was put our healthcare system under capitalism.

[Vander]

We're in the final stretch of a decades long conspiracy to kill the country. What a time to be alive.

[Ferno]

When they said "may you live in interesting times", I had no idea it would be like this.

[Top Gun]

Whoever said that was an ★■◆●.

[woodchip]

Is CNN garbage too?

Yes. Yes it is.

Just to clarify and this is not a trick question, just what news outlets do you think are not garbage?

[Tunnelcat]

Question for you. What are your reliable news sources?

[vision]

...just what news outlets do you think are not garbage?

This has been answered over and over again. Check AP News first since it's closest to the source. Reuters, The Hill, BBC all make great efforts to reduce media bias. You can use a news aggregator like Ground News to get a good overview of a story. And finally, just remember you can't remove bias completely since news agencies exist to make money so they will always be beholden to capitalist overlords and powerful lobbying groups. State-run media would be good if only the people who lived in this country weren't so selfish, but we unfortunately don't have that, which is why NPR sucks too, though PBS does a pretty good job.

[Ferno]

Is CNN garbage too?

Yes. Yes it is.

Just to clarify and this is not a trick question, just what news outlets do you think are not garbage?

I'm not stupid enough to play this game. I know what you're trying to do and I refuse to take part in it.

[Tunnelcat]

Steve Bannon. Convicted felon. Certified jackass and neo-fascist. Rot for 4 months in jail you prick. That's not nearly enough time either.

[woodchip]

Question for you. What are your reliable news sources?

Waiting for ferno to respond first. I suspect he has nothing.

[Spidey]

All news outlets are "reliable".

The left relies on their outlets to tell them what they want to hear, and the right relies on their outlets to tell them what they want to hear.

So yea, the media is highly reliable.

[Ferno]

Question for you. What are your reliable news sources?

Waiting for ferno to respond first. I suspect he has nothing.

I'm not giving you anything. That's the only thing that works with you - denial of something you want.

Have fun waiting.

[Tunnelcat]

All news outlets are "reliable".

The left relies on their outlets to tell them what they want to hear, and the right relies on their outlets to tell them what they want to hear.

So yea, the media is highly reliable.

This is the biggest reason for the decline of our news media. Aggregation by giant corporations via leveraged buyouts, so as to feed their target audiences what they want to hear, not factual unbiased news.

https://journalistsresource.org/media/c ... pher-daly/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... t-30-years

[vision]

All news outlets are "reliable".

Idiotic, enlightened centrist post. I feel it's time to remind the board there are no major left wing news services in the US, just the anarcho-capitalist right and the capitalist left. For those who believe society would be healthier and more prosperous if we had things like nationalized health care, transportation, energy, and housing reform, the best we can hope for is "passive voice" reporting on how the free market is better.

[TigerRaptor]

Oops! Wrong room. I thought this was the bathroom.

[Spidey]

Yea vision, what would we all do without your bright shining beacon of truth.

[vision]

Yea vision, what would we all do without your bright shining beacon of truth.

Prove me wrong.

[Spidey]

Yea vision, what would we all do without your bright shining beacon of truth.

Prove me wrong.

No...what your problem is, if every left leaning news outlet doesn't have anchors that flail their arms around and preach Bernieism you don't consider them left enough.

[Tunnelcat]

Spidey, what's consuming the mainstream and what you call the left wing media right now is talk about Biden and what to do about him or what he's going to do. They're pretty much hand wringing as Civil War II may be ramping up. There's no talk about what Trump, Evangelical Christians and his convict cohorts want for this country. No talk about what's going to happen if he's elected again. The media may not be talking about Trump, but they're sure as hell helping him by not speaking out forcibly about the consequences of another Trump presidency. And Trump's just smart enough to keep quiet and not give them something new to talk about. They're nothing but milktoast corporate owned enablers of a future ChristoFascist dictator. They're signing their own firing papers, because the first thing Trump will do as dictator-in-chief is to go after any media he thinks is left wing, which is pretty much ALL of them. Thanks to SCOTUS, he now has that power.

[woodchip]

TC, you're unbelievably so fear mongering. Let look at this a bit differently. If civil war is looming it will be from all those communist groups like BLM, Antifa and now the Palestinians terrorists. Biden and his gas lighting money grasping family like the perks and want more, so he states he will stay in. We already can see the consequences of Bidens cohorts. Blame your leftist media for not informing you about Biden's dementia. I knew about Bidens mental state long before the primaries started from all those "garbage" news sources I listen too. Your assertions about Trumps dictatorship, well he can't be any worse than what we have now. Biden is the guy you will still vote for as will all the loony leftists. Don't shed any fake crocodile tears after Trump is elected. You had your chance a long time to get someone else.

[Spidey]

Spidey, what's consuming the mainstream and what you call the left wing media right now is talk about Biden and what to do about him or what he's going to do. They're pretty much hand wringing as Civil War II may be ramping up. There's no talk about what Trump, Evangelical Christians and his convict cohorts want for this country. No talk about what's going to happen if he's elected again. The media may not be talking about Trump, but they're sure as hell helping him by not speaking out forcibly about the consequences of another Trump presidency. And Trump's just smart enough to keep quiet and not give them something new to talk about. They're nothing but milktoast corporate owned enablers of a future ChristoFascist dictator. They're signing their own firing papers, because the first thing Trump will do as dictator-in-chief is to go after any media he thinks is left wing, which is pretty much ALL of them. Thanks to SCOTUS, he now has that power.

Biden sent a letter to Democrats...

"Get bent, I'm not going anywhere"

Ok, that's a paraphrase.

[Tunnelcat]

Frankly, the Dems are screwing up just as they did when they served up Hillary 2016. The Dems in Congress either need to stick with Biden and quit calling for his "retirement", or get him to resign and find another candidate asap and stop all this waffling. Most people could tell Biden was declining years ago.

[Vander]

No...what your problem is, if every left leaning news outlet doesn't have anchors that flail their arms around and preach Bernieism you don't consider them left enough.

I would say that you have accurately described vision's point. If Bernie is too far left for a "left leaning" news outlet, it's not "left leaning."

[vision]

...you don't consider them left enough.

Vander beat me to it, but Bernie Sanders is a progressive Democrat, not a "leftist". Media bias sites do things like put MSNBC on the far-left end of the spectrum, yet MSNBC doesn't advocate for things like nationalizing industries instead of using tax dollars to bail them out (so those industries can fail again and repeat the bailout cycle). They certainly don't advocate for a classless, stateless society either. My point still stands, there is no true left movement in the US and the "liberal media" begins and ends with culture war nonsense since all the media is owned by capitalists (Disney, Time Warner, etc...).

[Will Robinson]

...you don't consider them left enough.

Vander beat me to it, but Bernie Sanders is a progressive Democrat, not a "leftist". Media bias sites do things like put MSNBC on the far-left end of the spectrum, yet MSNBC doesn't advocate for things like nationalizing industries instead of using tax dollars to bail them out (so those industries can fail again and repeat the bailout cycle). They certainly don't advocate for a classless, stateless society either. My point still stands, there is no true left movement in the US and the "liberal media" begins and ends with culture war nonsense since all the media is owned by capitalists (Disney, Time Warner, etc...).

I don’t disagree with your perception of left versus ‘real left’ and how the fraternity of wealthy kingpins factor in to the dynamic.
However, considering how our ‘leaders’ have managed our interests (read: freedoms, resources and means of survival) do you really see them as the proper stewards of our fate.
Maybe I don’t understand your definition of ‘nationalizing’ since I’m drawing on the results of their management of things already in their control.

Temporarily make all elected officials at the national level term limited to a single term. Not allowed to run again for the next three cycles. Continue flushing that toilet before the turds can ripen…until the tentacles of the campaign finance octopus are all severed and removed.

All campaign donations must be made public knowledge/ record upon receipt. All candidates can only use individual donations from individual citizens. The Party can now only act as an independent advocacy group with full transparency as to all the source of all funds.

Make lobbying treason, punishable by death. ( not hyperbole, deadly serious)

Make our elections to include a weighted choice of all candidates… so each voter ranks their choices…the winner is the candidate who receives the highest over all ranking.

If you want to use our federal government to manage your ‘nationalization of our fate then do those things first.

Or just outsource it to a committee of Finish citizens who will be paid a nice salary to to make the decisions based on their understanding of ‘the best interest’ of the USA. Put a second committee of Finnish forensic accountants to watchdog the first committee an get the Finnish government to agree to arrest and extradite any foreign persons that try to influence the committees…where they will be tried for treason or terrorism depending on their citizenship

[Tunnelcat]

Question. What about lifetime appointed government positions like the judges in SCOTUS? How do you flush those turds?

[Will Robinson]

Question. What about lifetime appointed government positions like the judges in SCOTUS? How do you flush those turds?

You can’t but isn’t there a mechanism to impeach them for cause? If you think it is wise to do so then maybe visit the definition of ‘cause’ but be careful you don’t completely destroy the autonomy of the court thereby putting the control of the court into the hands of the keepers of impeachment.
I think most of the complaints I’ve heard about SC decisions, from either side of politics, has been ultimately caused by bad craftsmanship of the laws passed. The court ends up in a position of having to ‘fill in the blanks’ instead of just test the law against precident and constition
Keep the laws simple instead of purposely open for interpretation and you would have eliminated most of your concerns.

[Vander]

I like that this initiative allows putting lobbyists to death but delicately redefines "cause" to deal with intransigent Supreme Court Justices.

[vision]

However...

I agree with most of your post(s) so I'm not going to argue against any. We can't nationalize anything until we have a government working in the interest of the people. A system other than FPTP would be great.

To add to your point regarding term limits, I believe we should consider the following:

• Population, technology, discovery, etc is not linear and the pace is accelerating, making big decisions ever more difficult.
• If we consider the theory of fluid and crystallized intelligence to be true (people learn new information easily when young but make bad decisions, older people make better decisions but can't learn new information easily), then we can imagine there is probably an ideal age range for someone to be an effective representative.
• Representatives also need to be "in-step" with culture to be effective.

Given this, it seems the ideal representative will be someone between 30 and 60 who serves no longer than 20 years. No lifetime appointments, and nothing that allows someone like Diane F**king Feinstein to die in office at 90 -- Jesus Christ I get pissed off just typing it.

[Will Robinson]

I like that this initiative allows putting lobbyists to death but delicately redefines "cause" to deal with intransigent Supreme Court Justices.

I didn’t even suggest touching the court, as I alluded, the problem with the court is garbage in garbage out. Make the legislature actually read the law they sign. Make each law pass or fail on its own merit publicly signed for or against by each member. Make a review board of lawyers that identify ambiguities and obvious incomplete guidance so it gets sent back to congress for correction. There is so much gamesmanship going on in the lawmaking process it should have caused a violent revolution already!! Except people are all fat and happy most of the time so they don’t want to understand they just want someone in charge to tell them who be mad at so they can shout at the clouds about it.

[Vander]

Eh, just abolish the ultrawealthy. It wouldn't eliminate corruption, but it sure would go a long way to remove power from our most corrosive elements.