Almost bought a used car today

Vindicator · Post by **Vindicator** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 9:11 pm

At a local used car dealership, there was a 1993 Acura Integra that I was lookin at. It seemed to be in good shape, so I asked the people about it and they gave me the details, along with a reasonable price. I ran the VIN number through Carfax and it reported it clean. I test drove it yesterday and liked it, so I arranged to have a mechanic look at it today to make sure it was kosher.

Turns out the frame was bent from an accident. Moral of the story, always have it looked at before you buy and take Carfax reports with a grain of salt.

The search continues...

Poozilla · Post by **Poozilla** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 9:30 pm

Failure to give you a bill of disclosure on the history of the vehicle would cost him/her their license.....

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:23 pm

heh carfax is a Joke, I Manage a body shop for a Mega Dealership, car fax will have a report ONLY if the vehicle becomes a total loss and the title is turned into the state, it just makes the average person think he's being protected. it is a TOTALLY worthless thing to get a carfax report, maybe 1 in 1000 will comeback with a warning on it. and Pooh Disclosure is an issue ONLY if it is disclosed to the dealership when they buy it. you cant disclose what is unknown

Birdseye · Post by **Birdseye** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:57 pm

Doesn't the dealership have a responsibility to do a diagnostic like the technician Vindicator took it to?

Birds

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 8:05 am

Honda and Toyota have a used vehicle certification program,Most car companies do. but thats only as good as the tech doing the inspection, also it depends on the quality of the repairs. Many shops dont have a Laser measuring system for car frames, we have 2 but they are $32,000 each, it will measure a frame for accuracy to within half the thickness of a dime, something the eye cannot detect, many cars can be 4,5,or 6mm out of specs and it will not be visable to the naked eye, but it does constitute frame damage and "should" be declared, in our company when they do a UVI ( used Vehicle inspection ) and they find anything that looks like its been damaged they send it to me for a frame check, our parent dealership has 16 dealerships in the Portland Metro area so we do alot of inspections, you would be shocked at how many frame checks come back bad I would easily say 40% when it does give me a bad reading the dealership ships it off to the auction, they will not sell it, never the less there have been times when some cars have slipped through unnoticed when that happens it becomes a buy back issue and the dealership tries to rectify the situation, we had on instance where a gentlemen owned a 2000 mercury Grand Marquis that he traded in, he took it to our Lincoln dearlership and they asked him had your vehicle ever been in an accident, he told them yes a very minor one he had a fender replaced, they took it in trade and sold him a new car, after the deal was done they sent it to me for an inspection, when I recived the car I recognized it, it had been repaired in my shop,I didnt even need to inspect it as I had the original and completed frame printouts in my files. I called the Lincoln store and informed them that this gentlemens "MINOR" accident was to the tune of $12,000, needless to say they sued him for not disclosing it, so disclosure can go both ways, ANY seller of a vehicle MUST disclose or they risk being sued

De Rigueur · Post by **De Rigueur** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 9:03 am

I have a 93 integra w/ the vtec engine and it's fun to drive. Too bad the deal didn't work out.

Birdseye · Post by **Birdseye** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:25 pm

Cuda, I appreciate your perspective on this issue.

I bought a '95 honda civic that was salvaged for like $4000 (needed new odometer, airbag) but it only had like 86,000 miles on it. I bet the frame is bent because in the accident the whole passanger door had to be replaced and parts of the hood.

Does having a bent frame spell death in an accident vs. not having a bent frame?

Sting_Ray · Post by **Sting_Ray** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:55 pm

A bent frame is horrible on everything for the car. Proper wheel allignment, proper body panel allignment proper tire and suspension wear, drive train, driveability. Even the slightest bend in a frame could cause dozens of driveability problems. It's possible to fix, but in most cases if it's bad it's not worth it.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 3:24 pm

Unlike the old days cars do not have a "FRAME" per say. most all cars are unibody, meaning that what are called frame sections can be removed and replaced or even cut and half a section replaced, having a straight frame as Stingy points out is critical to many things on a vehicle, it may not drive straight and wear tires or pull, sheet metal lamps or bumpers may not fit properly, or it could wind whistle or leak water, factory tollerances on most japanese cars is about 3 MM many domestic cars tollerances are 1/2 inch, so you can see how if your frame is off by 7mm it can cause problems, and where japanese cars do not have sloted fenders they must fit right the first time or your goning to have problems

P.S. no a bent frame from an accident does not spell death to a car, "IF" it is repaired correctly, but it still needs to be disclosed to the next owner

Wang_Lo · Post by **Wang_Lo** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 12:32 am

i told Vindi to watch them middle eastern car dealers!