DescentBB

CUDA wrote:Now that being said this pastor is wrong Morally and Biblically. but at least be consistant in your posts TC. one second your talking about respecting Muslim's rights the next your blasting Christians rights to free speech. you cannot have it both ways. this is all covered under the 1st Amendment.

Well, I guess there is a fine line between inflammatory or hate speech and free speech, both of which are protected. But where do you draw the line? Do you allow someone to stir up trouble, maybe escalate a war(s) and possibly put more of our troops in harm's way, all in the name of 'Christian free speech'? Is that worth it! BAH! Christians and their old saw of complaining about being victims of censorship when they espouse their 'free', ahem, 'hate' speech is really getting old. If Christians want to call for the deaths of Muslims, homosexuals and others they deem as sinners or evil, they need to be prepared to get that "speech" thrown right back in their faces, even if it is revolting 'protected free speech'.

As for putting a cultural center 2 blocks from ground zero, they own the building, the area is run down and they have the right to do what they want on their property. Why is that any skin off any Christian American's nose? That's a deeply held American concept most of you should be in agreement with, property rights. Instead of yelling like insane banshees, we should take stock that within our great and free country, we as a people will refuse to allow crazy fundamentalist wacko murderers from ANY religion, Islam or Christianity, dictate how we deal with accepted mainstream religions. Islam has been accepted in this country for a long time. The fact that many Americans are reacting with such vehement hate shows that Al Qaeda is winning the propaganda war. Suckers!

So TC, if I buy a piece of property across from a elementary school and I want to open a porno/peep show store you would have no problem with my plan?

“Property Rights” also include zoning, appropriate usage…and a myriad of other restrictions.

Suckers? Ha! “they” have also succeeded in getting one group of people in this country, to accuse another of being “racist” so join the sucker club, and pull up a chair.

woodchip wrote:So TC, if I buy a piece of property across from a elementary school and I want to open a porno/peep show store you would have no problem with my plan?

well, i sure don't. but i imagine there is a law somewhere preventing that.

Spidey wrote:“Property Rights” also include zoning, appropriate usage…and a myriad of other restrictions.

Suckers? Ha! “they” have also succeeded in getting one group of people in this country, to accuse another of being “racist” so join the sucker club, and pull up a chair.

So what property zoning law or other restrictions are they violating? Being Muslim? Last I heard, that's not a crime, yet. I suppose given time and psychotic, Nativist Americans.........

It's not a peep show or porno shop either, both of which are near ground zero. There is NO rational reason to deny this group their building permit.

You call ME the "sucker" Spidey? Xenophobic Americans are! Well, I'm not out there threatening to burn the Koran (or the Bible even) as 'free speech' or vandalizing their places of worship like some Americans are doing as a way to whip up plain old vile hate.

again with the double standard.

on one hand your saying this Pastors words are inflamatory and could escalate the conflict. while at the same time you say the Muslims have a right to escalate the conflict. either they are BOTH wrong or they are BOTH right. neither is in violation of the Constitution.

The point I was trying to make is…Property Rights are not the end all when making a decision whether to build something or not…the concerns of the people are just as legitimate.

In a civilized world you must consider the ramifications of building something, in a certain place. And in a civilized world you don’t just call people who have objections names. Not to mention that an Ad Hominem Argument has no legitimacy anyway.

Or you can just ram something down peoples throats…if that’s your desire.

Spidey wrote:I’m pretty sure if you simply “laughed at it” somehow they would find a way to be offended by that as well.

Oh, absolutely. And that's the point.

tunnelcat wrote:If Christians want to call for the deaths of Muslims, homosexuals and others they deem as sinners or evil, they need to be prepared to get that "speech" thrown right back in their faces, even if it is revolting 'protected free speech'.

Yep. Both sides have a right to say offensive things. And as long as we protect Everyone's right to be offensive, this country has a chance...
<note>"calling for the death of", is not always protected free speech.</note>

Lothar wrote:

Spidey wrote:I’m pretty sure if you simply “laughed at it” somehow they would find a way to be offended by that as well.

Oh, absolutely. And that's the point.

HA!

By the way, on to the concept that some Muslims (just like some Christians) deserve our respect:

So now the Moron Imam in Charge is stating how not building the Mosque will be a national security issue as world wide Muslims will turn violent if Mosque is not built. I love how this guy can stroke a fiddle better than Charlie Daniels.

woodchip wrote:So now the Moron Imam in Charge is stating how not building the Mosque will be a national security issue as world wide Muslims will turn violent if Mosque is not built.

That is just... Sad. On so many levels.

tunnelcat wrote:...we should take stock that within our great and free country, we as a people will refuse to allow crazy fundamentalist wacko murderers from ANY religion, Islam or Christianity, dictate how we deal with accepted mainstream religions. Islam has been accepted in this country for a long time. The fact that many Americans are reacting with such vehement hate shows that Al Qaeda is winning the propaganda war. Suckers!

woodchip wrote:So now the Moron Imam in Charge is stating how not building the Mosque will be a national security issue as world wide Muslims will turn violent if Mosque is not built.

So tc, do you make an exception for this wacko and welcome his dictate that the center/mosque must be built at the threat of Muslims turning violent around the world?!?

I suppose he hasn't been paying much attention to Muslims around the world because turning violent is a regular occurrence within their ranks! They frikken invented the 'suicide bomber' for crying out loud!!
Maybe he meant to say more will turn violent than the number that already do so at the slightest provocation.

I know he has claimed he wants the project done to heal the divide but none of his actions support that premise, none of them. They do however fit like a glove the practice of bullying their opponent into submission(Islam).

Seems there is a divide with in the ranks of the backers of the Mosque. Hisham Elzanaty seems to be part Ferengi.

Hisham Elzanaty, an Egyptian-born businessman who says he provided a majority of the financing to gain control over the two buildings where the center would be built, told The Associated Press this week that while he supports the concept, he needs to turn a profit.

http://www.telegram.com/article/2010090 ... 90798/1116

Hmmmmmmmmm. A deal maybe that will make everyone happy?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/quran_burning

By the way, yelling \"FIRE\" in a crowed theater is NOT protected speech, because people can be HURT when somebody does it!

LYON, France – INTERPOL has today issued a global alert to its 188 member countries following the request of Pakistan’s Minister of the Interior, and its own determination, that if the proposed Koran burning by a pastor in the US goes ahead as planned, there is a strong likelihood that violent attacks on innocent people would follow.

Minister Rehman Malik personally contacted INTERPOL Secretary General Ronald K. Noble to engage the world police body’s assistance in warning law enforcement of the increased terrorist threat if plans reported by the media to burn the holy book were carried out on Saturday’s anniversary of the September 11 attacks.

I'm glad they decided to not burn the books but the fact that some redneck preacher in Florida can make a group of people that live all across the globe go out and start killing random victims simply because he burned copies of their holy book is so disturbing that the redneck preacher suddenly becomes completely trivial and harmless by comparison!

How many fools will breath a sigh of relief once the burning date has passed as if the problem was prevented? How many talking heads in media will focus on the Preacher and spend their time trying to tie him to the Tea Party etc. all the while being very sure to avoid the real story that has been delivered to their doorstep?

Why do you insist on calling him a redneck? Did you know he was running a church from 1980 to 2008 in Cologne, Germany? A man running two churches one in Germany and one in GAINESVILLE, Fla, could be many things, but a redneck I think not. Is it just because he is a white person living in the south? If so isn't that just another type of bigotry? Is it just bigotry if it's perpetrated against anybody but white people?

any bets they start burning Bibles and no one says a word about it.

CUDA wrote:any bets they start burning Bibles and no one says a word about it.

I've always had an idle desire to make a video wherein as many holy books as possible are burned, along with a good amount of atheist literature.

Or maybe I could make a video where I take all those books and just put them on the same bookshelf.

CUDA wrote:any bets they start burning Bibles and no one says a word about it.

Too late CUDA, bet you never saw this in the news when it happened (about a year ago). Bet you won't see or hear any outraged indignation over it either:

"Reuters) - Bibles in Afghan languages sent to a U.S. soldier at a base in Afghanistan were confiscated and destroyed to ensure that troops did not breach regulations which forbid proselytising, a military spokeswoman said."

http://in.reuters.com/article/idINIndia-39421920090505

" By the way, the Bibles were burned because the rules on the base say that all garbage is burned at the end of the day."

Burning books is soooo…medieval.

Not so fast now. The Qur'an burning may still be on. Also seems that Robert Gates had called the pastor to ask him to back off.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39074573/ns ... s-security

Heretic wrote:Why do you insist on calling him a redneck? ...
Is it just because he is a white person living in the south?
...

White guy in south wants to do something extremely offensive and stupid with fire towards brown skinned people.
Sorry if he isn't really a redneck but it fit my template.
Point remains though, in spite of my potential for bigotry toward white guys who burn stuff for dumb reasons. And that is, a whole group of people living all over the planet are so easily manipulated into murderous deeds and the story won't be them or what they have in common it will be the refined gentleman who curiously burned a bunch of books.

Islam is a religion , not a race.

I'm just in a picky mood.

Will Robinson wrote:I'm glad they decided to not burn the books but the fact that some redneck preacher in Florida can make a group of people that live all across the globe go out and start killing random victims simply because he burned copies of their holy book is so disturbing that the redneck preacher suddenly becomes completely trivial and harmless by comparison!

I don't like using "trivial and harmless" for such an idiot. BUT, there is no denying your point.

Iran hosts a “Holocaust International Cartoon Contest”, specifically making fun of Jews and the Holocaust, and, despite how DELIBERATELY offensive it is, no one feels a need to burn cars in the street or kill people.

Someone draws a picture of Mohamed, and Muslims are threatening murder and bombs. The Pope says that Islam is violent, and Muslims threaten "Death to those who say Islam is violent!!!"

Not all Muslims are the same, but there is a large and dangerous group of them who are simply not rational. And the ones who should be RESPONSIBLE for policing the nuts are other Muslims, but they do not seem to be doing the job.

woodchip wrote:So TC, if I buy a piece of property across from a elementary school and I want to open a porno/peep show store you would have no problem with my plan?

really?

Look, if a person has a problem with a porno/peep show store opening across from a school, then they have a problem with sexuality.

stupid false morality dilemmas.... and I won't even entertain wholly absurd 'think of the children' arguments.

Yea, so my wife was watching a morning show with Trump on it, Says the Imam bought the property for 4.8m and Trump offered him 6.2m and he turned it down. He said he wanted 25m... follow the money. Whats it really about?

Ferno wrote:

woodchip wrote:So TC, if I buy a piece of property across from a elementary school and I want to open a porno/peep show store you would have no problem with my plan?

really?

Look, if a person has a problem with a porno/peep show store opening across from a school, then they have a problem with sexuality.

stupid false morality dilemmas.... and I won't even entertain wholly absurd 'think of the children' arguments.

Oh please...

Ferno wrote:

woodchip wrote:So TC, if I buy a piece of property across from a elementary school and I want to open a porno/peep show store you would have no problem with my plan?

really?

Look, if a person has a problem with a porno/peep show store opening across from a school, then they have a problem with sexuality.

Considering I have the least problem with sexuality... even I would not want a porn shop by a elementary school. Ferno, time to grow up and put your adolescent fantasies aside.

Ferno wrote:

woodchip wrote:So TC, if I buy a piece of property across from a elementary school and I want to open a porno/peep show store you would have no problem with my plan?

really?

Look, if a person has a problem with a porno/peep show store opening across from a school, then they have a problem with sexuality.

No. I have a problem with sexual predators. a Sex shop across the street from a school is a bad Idea.

I also have a problem with Fred Phelps. but that doesnt mean I have a problem with religion. that being said I would have a problem with him opening a "church" next to a Gay rights center.

.

CUDA wrote:a Sex shop across the street from a school is a bad Idea.

why do you hate america so much

.

I agree a sex shop across the street is a bad idea but a church across the street is not and yet I've never heard of a sexual predator working out of a sex shop...

never said working.

It looks like Bee and I can finally agree on something

Will Robinson wrote:I agree a sex shop across the street is a bad idea but a church across the street is not and yet I've never heard of a sexual predator working out of a sex shop...

Yet, sadly, we've all heard of sexual predators working out of churches.

Bet51987 wrote:

null0010 wrote:why do you hate america so much

Why do you like sexual predators and hate kids so much...

Bee

because i love freedom miss

I thought liberals gave up on freedom years ago, and replaced it with fairness & equality.

.

null0010 wrote:

Bet51987 wrote:

null0010 wrote:why do you hate america so much

Why do you like sexual predators and hate kids so much...

Bee

because i love freedom miss

You have no clue as to what freedom means. Perhaps some day you will move out of the basement and do your own laundry instead of having mummy do it.