DescentBB

Skyalmian wrote:2. The league it will be using is the Eclipse Gaming League, which is run by Thutmose a.k.a. Anubis, a former member of Obsidian Dragon (OD) and current member of The Celestial Order (TCO) (and is also one of the creators of Kiith Draconis). Ever heard of him? He is a Descent 3 player.

Bleh, screw that. I'll just play it over kali. Screw that nazi wanker.

... Obsidian Dragon !? Jeebus !@%#~! .. I hope we're not tangling again with that bunch of nimrods ..! Or was it just the grand poobah of that "league" that was teh goof supreme ..?!

interesting ... first i've heard of this

reading thier faq it sounds like they're on the right track as far as design goes

sounds like they're focusing on the basics
which is the first step in the right direction:

D1 flight model, tri-chording, weapons balance as a primary focus are essential; without that i would have doubted whether they were ever actually serious players or not

but, sounds like someone was, at least ...

i browsed the chats and the answers i read seemed right on point ..

overall: seems like they might know what made D1 and D2 great and *might* just be able to keep that while fixing thier shortcomings

of course talk is talk .. im really crossing my fingers here that its more than a couple of guys dreaming in thier spare time (like a few of the other aborted non-parallax "D4" projects) and they actually have people dedicating time and serious effort to this on a consistant basis

if they want to be taken seriously i would think a professional website design and some more screenshots should be coming soon

and, imo they should get a small core group of oldtimer descent players as a "consulting" team to feed them advice

if this is for real i'd be glad to be a part of that .. my descent resume goes
back a ways ... lol ..

These guys know what they're doing. IIRC, they're a professional game development team, with paid members--not just a bunch of codies and modelers working in their spare time, as so many of these projects have been.

Most, if not all, of the development team have played D1 and/or D2, so they should know what we're looking for pretty well. Their forums already have several people browsing, making comments, and asking about the game.

I know for a fact they have some well-known long-time (though not necessarily expert) Descent players they consult with. I don't know if they have any of the really old-school top-tier pilots, though.

well, i can definitely say there are some out there that are and were more expert than me. i had my moments ..

there were some of us that put a lot of thought and effort into this game though .. probably too much at times ...

this led to the DBB - one half of the reason we started the board was to give the global descent community a home. worked out pretty well (what is it ... 6 years later, no D sequels, and you guys are all still here)

the other 50% of the reason was to influence the development of D3. dunno how many of you were here at the beginning, but the feedback was furious on this board and it did its job pretty well. outrage took full use of the forums and we definitly got a lot of our requests heard and implemented

i also started a private list with jason leighton that included koolbear, xciter, kiln, descentile, peartman, delcio, strap, sirian .. damn, i forget everyone .. there were about 10 or 12 of us but ...

these guys knew what made descent great and knew what needed to be done. again, lots of the things we covered on that list (in detail) made it into D3. lots didnt which (imo) is one of the reasons it wasnt quite as successful as it could have been

might sound a little overconfident but .. you have to understand ... we were throughly geeked out on D
we really did know what made this game tick ..

we also beta tested forsaken, were among the first to play it, were invited to acclaim headquarters and
spent a whole day with them telling them exactly what they needed to do to make that game rock

they said "wow, great" .. then proceeded to do what they eventually ended up doing .. which was .. produce a game that fixed almost none of the issues, added none of the features, and ended up taking a nosedive

i would love to see a next generation descent game done .. hell its an old dream .. lets see if they can pull this off ...

Its been quite a long time since I've posted (so much so that the search can't find any of my posts, heh), but here's my answer:

It, most likely, will be made. What will happen to the game, however, is based on who they seek to appeal to: Descent fans, or the larger gaming public.

If they make it appeal to the general gaming public, Descent fans will be offended. Among things that would happen along this path is a reliance on a more proper control scheme (mouse and keyboard). It might not even have joystick control. These changes, among others, would give it a chance to do moderately well.

If they do the opposite... well, it'd be another Descent 3.

I think any 3D-movement game worth its salt has joystick support... even if it does have good support of mouse/keyboard.

Curiously, even the Unreal games supported the joystick...

Sorry for my absence. The match making system runs an open and documented protocol. However, we will be releasing our matching and EGL's matching making and league system bundled with the game.

As for the rest of the project. We have greatly appreciated your comments, suggestions, and guidence toward this game. Most important though, is your support.

Sincerely,
Zachary Briggs, Executive Producer
HighOctane Software

[21:45] [MD-1224] Ahh
[21:45] [MD-1224] If it ain't Mr. Briggs!
[21:45] [MD-1224] How's it going?
[21:46] [SuperBawlz] Been really busy.
[21:46] [MD-1224] Good to see you again.
[21:46] [MD-1224] Now remember this...
[21:47] [MD-1224] Doom was smacked down by Descent.
[21:47] [MD-1224] Now Doom3 will be smacked down
[21:47] [MD-1224] But this time, it won't be Descent...
[21:47] [MD-1224] It will be Core Decision.
[21:47] [MD-1224] And Core Decision threatens to smack UT2004 down as well.
[21:47] [MD-1224] It will bring all D1, D2, and D3 players together.
[21:48] [MD-1224] As of now, there is a divide between the players of the old school and players of the new school.
[21:49] [MD-1224] People of the old world, and people of the new world.
[21:49] [MD-1224] People of the D1/2 world, and the people of the D3 world.
[21:50] [MD-1224] I will be glad when that day comes!

Yes, I will rejoice to see that day!

---MD-1224

MD-1224 wrote:[21:45] [MD-1224] Ahh
[21:45] [MD-1224] If it ain't Mr. Briggs!
[21:45] [MD-1224] How's it going?
[21:46] [SuperBawlz] Been really busy.
[21:46] [MD-1224] Good to see you again.
[21:46] [MD-1224] Now remember this...
[21:47] [MD-1224] Doom was smacked down by Descent.
[21:47] [MD-1224] Now Doom3 will be smacked down
[21:47] [MD-1224] But this time, it won't be Descent...
[21:47] [MD-1224] It will be Core Decision.
[21:47] [MD-1224] And Core Decision threatens to smack UT2004 down as well.
[21:47] [MD-1224] It will bring all D1, D2, and D3 players together.
[21:48] [MD-1224] As of now, there is a divide between the players of the old school and players of the new school.
[21:49] [MD-1224] People of the old world, and people of the new world.
[21:49] [MD-1224] People of the D1/2 world, and the people of the D3 world.
[21:50] [MD-1224] I will be glad when that day comes!

Yes, I will rejoice to see that day!

---MD-1224

I'm wondering, how will Core Decision be advertised? I have never even been able to find Descent at a games store -- how do you expect people to find out about the game?

Descent used to be in stores. In fact I bought my copies of Descent 2 and 3 and the Definitive Edition / Collection at Best Buy.

Descent I was only second to Doom II in its time as far as popularity.

When High Octane put up a "Jobs @" email address and invited resumes, I sent them mine and let them know my services could be available to them on a part time basis. (I already have a full time game development assignment, but I could allocate the time to do some consulting for them on the side.)

I never heard back from them.

I suppose my inquiry could have gotten lost in the cracks?

Sup wrote:i also started a private list with jason leighton that included koolbear, xciter, kiln, descentile, peartman, delcio, strap, sirian .. damn, i forget everyone .. there were about 10 or 12 of us but ...

these guys knew what made descent great and knew what needed to be done. again, lots of the things we covered on that list (in detail) made it into D3. lots didnt which (imo) is one of the reasons it wasnt quite as successful as it could have been...

Hey old timer. You look vaguely familiar.


- Sirian

Sirian wrote:When High Octane put up a "Jobs @" email address and invited resumes, I sent them mine and let them know my services could be available to them on a part time basis. (I already have a full time game development assignment, but I could allocate the time to do some consulting for them on the side.)

I never heard back from them.

I suppose my inquiry could have gotten lost in the cracks?

Sup wrote:i also started a private list with jason leighton that included koolbear, xciter, kiln, descentile, peartman, delcio, strap, sirian .. damn, i forget everyone .. there were about 10 or 12 of us but ...

these guys knew what made descent great and knew what needed to be done. again, lots of the things we covered on that list (in detail) made it into D3. lots didnt which (imo) is one of the reasons it wasnt quite as successful as it could have been...

Hey old timer. You look vaguely familiar.


- Sirian

hey man! good to see you are out there still alive and kickin ..

zbriggs: contact this guy and talk to him, there's few people on this planet that know the game better

(no exaggeration on that one, trust me)

I think any 3D-movement game worth its salt has joystick support... even if it does have good support of mouse/keyboard.

A lack of joystick support would be a less likely situation, I agree. Of course, there was Freelancer, and it did sell pretty well (despite the braying and neighing of the Stick Crowd).

Think about it this way: if the game aims for the general market, you're going to see a multiplayer that, by default, allows users to use the standard control scheme. It may offend Joystick Users that Mouse/Keyboarders can rotate quicker, but thats what you get for aiming for the general market. D3 did it the opposite way - pander to the joystick users over the multitude using modern control schemes - and we know how that worked out.

Sup wrote:hey man! good to see you are out there still alive and kickin ..

Thriving, actually. Life is treating me pretty well, these days.


Just over a year ago, I got nostalgic for Descent and dusted off (literally) my last still-working stick. The hat was a tad fussy and the thing won't center perfectly any more (and sometimes it twitches) but it was functional. I was still on dialup, so had no interest in MP, but I played through D3 single player again. I was a bit rusty at first, of course, but I found that I could not only still handle it on Insane, but I actually put in my best run ever. I came up with new tactics to use against some of the tougher AIs.

Broadband finally came to my area in July and I played some D3 multi, but only briefly. The players who are left have all figured out how to exploit the fusion bug to the nth degree (which is not fun) and the gameplay just isn't what it used to be. That and the lag quality never did recover from what Outrage did to the networking to stop the afterburner bug.

So it was a mixed bag: I came, saw, and went.


I haunted my old stomping ground (the DBB Ethics forum) for a while late last year, but ultimately the debates were too combative and I decided to stop. I just don't have the time any more to blow a couple of hours a day arguing current events. I still -want- to, but I just can't afford it, especially when too many are too quick to aim at the credibility of people instead of positions, reducing the return on each hour invested. Oh well.

I was sorry to read recently that Birdseye played so much D he got repetitive motion injuries. There but for the grace of God... Looks like all my "break periods" to run off to play other games like Diablo and Railroad Tycoon II paid off for me. Even Descent is well advised to be taken in moderation.

You've still got my email. Drop me a line some time...


- Sirian

There are many theories why Descent 3 didn't sell well. Better joystick support than mouse probably wasn't one of them.

Joysticks aren't really not modern, so to speak, just alternative... unless of course you're one of the people still using a 3D Pro...

LOL @ sirian.

if this game doesnt support mouselook in multi, good luck with the ground pounding crowd. i know i wont mouse in a game if i have to move it down to tilt up.

kurupt wrote:if this game doesnt support mouselook in multi, good luck with the ground pounding crowd. i know i wont mouse in a game if i have to move it down to tilt up.

That's not "mouselook", that's "invert axis"... which should be included in every game.

Mouselook refers to being able to turn your ship around in a single sweep of the mouse. It's like the old Spaceorb 180 -- breaking game mechanics in order to allow you to turn your ship as fast as you're used to being able to turn your head in a groundpounder.

That's why most D3 servers have it banned -- it's not that we don't want mousers to be able to move the mouse "up" to tilt "up", it's that we don't want them to be able to do a 180 in a quarter second.

I play FPS games with inverted mouse... O.o Mainly because of that little deal with having played joystick games where the controller worked like that for so long.

I used to play FPS's with the inverted mouse too, until one day it just didn't seem right anymore.

Sirius wrote:I play FPS games with inverted mouse... O.o Mainly because of that little deal with having played joystick games where the controller worked like that for so long.

I invert the Y axis for just about any console/PC game with that option. The other way feels unnatural after playing Descent/Freespace/flight sims. Plus, it's a great way to weird out FPS fanboys.

Sirian wrote:

Sup wrote: I found that I could not only still handle it on Insane, but I actually put in my best run ever.

lol man, i'm not suprised ... now i remember you are the guy who trained starting with D1 on insane and on both versions after that

rock on, that was tough stuff, i did it on D1 and D2 but never tried D3 ...

Woops, I'm off the market. Firaxis just offered me a new and improved deal. Woohoo, I'm a hot commodity!

I wish High Octane the best, though. It should be fun to play their game when it comes out.


D3 on Insane -will- kill you. The measurement lies in how few times you hit the canvas.

I think the worst part, short of the final boss, is the fight with the three pyros on level 4. Nassss-Tee.


- Sirian

To answer many long and desired questions about Core Decision and its fate.

Yes. Core Decision is still being worked on. We have been very busy trying to lay the ground work to ensure that the community will live on for years to come. We want this game to last and fill out our hopes and dreams we have for it just as you do. Feel free to ask questions if you like.

Sincerely,
Zachary Briggs, Executive Producer
HighOctane Software
Zach@HighOctane.biz
(866)328-1886

What's your mother's maiden name? =D

I know its a bit early, but what kind of advertising/promotions do you have on the horizon for this game? It seems you will almost have to bribe compared to the advertising D3 has done in order to put a game an unique as this out on the market when so many people think that the FPS is "modern" Or "hip and cool".

Top Wop wrote:I know its a bit early, but what kind of advertising/promotions do you have on the horizon for this game? It seems you will almost have to bribe compared to the advertising D3 has done in order to put a game an unique as this out on the market when so many people think that the FPS is "modern" Or "hip and cool".

This is not so much our responsibility but the responsibility of the publisher. The placement of the game is going to be based on the publisher's influence with the retailers, distributors, and wholesalers and is also based on the test marketing that will be done.

Thank You,
Zachary Briggs, Executive Producer
HighOctane Software

if you could be placed into a fantasy draft for publishers, and were given the first pick, who would you choose?

actually, the cryptic and precise comments are indicative of those whose hands are tied regarding comments of a particular product.
while frustrating on our end, I think this is a good thing.

My questions would be: has beta testing begun (not alpha) for Core Decision?

In the final release, will there be a cooperative mode?
anything similar to Entropy or the UT equivilant of Onslaught?

I seem to recall there being a question about voice comms. included with CD....will this happen?

thanks!

-RM

kurupt wrote:if you could be placed into a fantasy draft for publishers, and were given the first pick, who would you choose?

I would rather not answer that question, wouldn't want anyone to feel unwanted.

Thank You,
Zachary Briggs, Executive Producer
HighOctane Software

Readyman. I haven't forgotten your post. I will reply shortly.

New poll and topic for Core Decision.

http://coredecision.highoctane.biz

Thank You,
Zachary Briggs, Executive Producer
HighOctane Software

Here's an easy explanation of mouselook:

In Descent (and every flight sim), moving the joystick exerts a force on your ship. The farther to you move the joystick to the left, for example, the faster you ship will rotate towards the left.

Leaving Mouselook turned off causes your mouse to function in the same way: moving the mouse to the left of center causes your ship to rotate faster. To stop rotating, you move your mouse back to center.

Turning mouselook on causes the game to behave like Quake and other FPS's, which means that your mouse directly affects your orientation. The mouse no longer exerts a torque (rotation force) on your ship, which makes your ship take time to reach its desired orientation, but rather instantly orients your ship in the direction you specify.

Think of your car. You have to start rotating the steering wheel before your car actually starts turning, and the farther you rotate it the faster your car turns. To stop turning you rotate the steering wheel back to center, which you must start doing before you've reached your desired direction. Mouselook, on the other hand, is like the joint at which your head is attached to your spinal cord: you simply move your head where you want it facing. This is why non-mouselook is the default for flight sims and mouselook on is the default for FPS's, because that's the most natural setup for such a simulation.

zbriggs, if you find this description helpful, feel free to put it in the instruction manual.

zbriggs wrote:This is not so much our responsibility but the responsibility of the publisher. The placement of the game is going to be based on the publisher's influence with the retailers, distributors, and wholesalers and is also based on the test marketing that will be done.

Thank You,
Zachary Briggs, Executive Producer
HighOctane Software

This is gonna be compatable for the Mac Community of Pilots? OSX perhaps? also Linux pilots?

Fus

Linux is not as widely used as windows, especially among gamers, so I think Linux wouldn't be worth the money.

WineX would probably figure out how to make a decent port if the engine is OpenGL.

That would be cool if thye made a mac port though.

Thenior wrote:Linux is not as widely used as windows, especially among gamers, so I think Linux wouldn't be worth the money.

WineX would probably figure out how to make a decent port if the engine is OpenGL.

That would be cool if thye made a mac port though.

There a small number of us Linux pilots around here

Thenior wrote:Linux is not as widely used as windows, especially among gamers, so I think Linux wouldn't be worth the money.

WineX would probably figure out how to make a decent port if the engine is OpenGL.

That would be cool if thye made a mac port though.

That's not very nice. Some people actually prefer using a real operating system to play their games.

I don't buy windows games any more, I can't stand being in it. But I will certainly buy this game if it is available for Linux.

I never said linux was bad in any way. I used Mandrake for a whole day and recognized the benefits of it. But Linux is lacking in the gaming area. And, well, just read this:

If Operating Systems Ran The Airlines

UNIX Airways
Everyone brings one piece of the plane along when they come to the airport. They all go out on the runway and put the plane together piece by piece, arguing non-stop about what kind of plane they are supposed to be building.

Air DOS
Everybody pushes the airplane until it glides, then they jump on and let the plane coast until it hits the ground again. Then they push again, jump on again, and so on...

Mac Airlines
All the stewards, captains, baggage handlers, and ticket agents look and act exactly the same. Every time you ask questions about details, you are gently but firmly told that you don't need to know, don't want to know, and everything will be done for you without your ever having to know, so just shut up.

Windows Air
The terminal is pretty and colorful, with friendly stewards, easy baggage check and boarding, and a smooth take-off. After about 10 minutes in the air, the plane explodes with no warning whatsoever.

Windows NT Air
Just like Windows Air, but costs more, uses much bigger planes and takes out all the other aircraft within a 40-mile radius when it explodes.

Linux Air
Disgruntled employees of all the other OS airlines decide to start their own airline. They build the planes, ticket counters, and pave the runways themselves. They charge a small fee to cover the cost of printing the ticket, but you can also download and print the ticket yourself. When you board the plane, you are given a seat, four bolts, a wrench and a copy of the seat-HOWTO.html. Once settled, the fully adjustable seat is very comfortable, the plane leaves and arrives on time without a single problem, the in-flight meal is wonderful. You try to tell customers of the other airlines about the great trip, but all they can say is, "You had to do what with the seat?"