DescentBB

Ferny just likes picking fights these days

I think the point they're making is that if this commercial had featured a white grandmother strapped with dyno it would have carried a completely different meaning. Noone's saying every middle easterner is a terrorist, but the race/make of the person in the commercial lends itself to an instant: "yea that's a terrorist" reaction. Middle-Easterners have a bum rap, which I hate, but I don't pretend to not know why it exists.

BigSlideHimself wrote:I think the point they're making is that if this commercial had featured a white grandmother strapped with dyno it would have carried a completely different meaning. Noone's saying every middle easterner is a terrorist, but the race/make of the person in the commercial lends itself to an instant: "yea that's a terrorist" reaction. Middle-Easterners have a bum rap, which I hate, but I don't pretend to not know why it exists.

This is kind of what I was getting at with my question.

That was hilarious!

Some of you find that insensitive? I don't know, would that bother a person that has been through a suicide bombing? And I don't think of palistinians/arabs when I see that, I think of the suicide bombers that have killed so many innocent people. This guy gets totally screwed while trying to do just that. Excellent! I love happy endings.

Ferno, I think we're more mature than to rely on stereotypes on this bulletin board. You can rest easy.

Now go back to your beer and hockey pucks...

BigSlideHimself wrote:I think the point they're making is that if this commercial had featured a white grandmother strapped with dyno it would have carried a completely different meaning.

If it was any sort of grandmother strapped with dyno everyone would've been like "WTF? What's that funny red vest she's wearing?" Then at the end of the commercial everyone would be like "WTF?" It would take too long to process the information. It's not that the commercial would have completely different meaning -- it's just that the commercial would be over before you'd processed it. The surprises would come too fast.

They have to use recognizeable symbolism, or it doesn't work. They *have* to stereotype a little bit, or you'd just be like "WTF?" after watching the commercial. In that case, the kaffiya -- a symbol of Palestinian "resistance", which often takes the form of suicide bombing -- is probably the most recognizeable symbol that could be used (in particular, in a French commercial -- in the US, a picture of Tim McVeigh would be just as recognizeable.)

That doesn't mean the people who think the commercial is funny buy into the "Every kaffiya-wearing middle-eastern-looking man is a terrorist" stereotype. Quite the opposite, in fact -- one thing that made this commercial work was the fact that it wasn't apparent, until the guy held up the detonator and looked at his vest, that he was a suicide bomber. He just looks like a normal guy who happens to have some Palestinian fashion tastes. If your first thought watching the commercial was "terrorist" it wouldn't be nearly as funny, but what makes it happen is that once he holds up the detonator, your brain is *barely* able to process "terrorist" before the punchline is delivered. Just about the time your brain thinks "OMG terrorist", but before you've had time to have an emotional response (fear, anger, etc.) he's already blown himself up and the commercial has surprised you again by having the car contain the blast.

The timing of the double-surprise makes it funny. It looks like a plain car commercial, and then you have about half a second to process and be like "oh crap he's a terrorist" before they surprise you again by having the car contain the blast. They used symbolism that allowed them to time things the way they did. I have no doubt they could've done the same (at least in a US commercial -- probably not in France) if they'd had a white guy look at a picture or news clipping of Tim McVeigh or Ted Kazinski. But an old grandma? No -- you'd still be thinking "WTF?" and the commercial would be over.

Lothar wrote:They *have* to stereotype a little bit...

To make the commercial 'work', yes.

And they're playing the odds that a high percentage of the public will laugh rather than find it offensive. That seems to be the case with this commercial; most are laughing (I'm one of the few who isn't).

Volkswagen probably did screen tests, etc., to make sure it 'works', per the percentages.

People approve (%-age-wise), the commercial gets airtime.

But what if some dim-witted commercial writer came up with a "funny" commercial playing on an offensive stereotype about black people? Or native Americans? Or Jews? Or Christians? Or (insert any large cultural group)?

Would you approve? Probably not. A much higher percentage of people would find it offensive.

People don't approve (%-age-wise), the commercial doesn't get airtime.

So... does anyone know where the percentage "barrier" is? At what percentage does it become appropriate to air this stuff? 10%? 5%? If the stereotyped and justifiably offended group is only 0.5% of the population, does that make it "okay"?

(Note: before anyone comes back and says, "but some stereotypes are good!", note that I said, "offensive stereotype", to make that very distinction.)

Ferno wrote:MD, here's your answer:

Foil wrote:That's the stereotype I was referring to (the "Middle-Eastern car-bombing type").

You know, thats funny because I showed this to a damn good friend of mine (yes, he's a muslim) and he damn near fell out of his chair from laughing. See, the way you worded it, it sounds like you think we're lumping them all into one box with a singular label. We're not. Foil pointed out a specific group that actually does things like what was shown in that commercial. Nowhere that I saw did he generalize that all people of middle-eastern decent went around blowing themselves up.

Now, this commercial was playing on the fact that this individual had planned on using himself as a weapon to kill "infidels". The funny part is that instead of blowing himself, and the car, up killing those nearby, it completely backfired and he only killed himself instead.

Let me ask you this, if they made a commercial lampooning the christian crusades, or even canadians in general, in a similar manner, would you be pitching as big a fit as you are now?

Seriously, some of you need to grow a thicker skin. If you get this rialed up over a stupid commercial, I'd hate to see how you'd react to real life.

Of all of the suicide bombers that have been on the news, what nationality dominates? As far as I know, it's middle-eastern, and, if that is the case, why even discuss stereotyping here? There's no reason for someone of middle-eastern descent to cringe at the sight of this commercial, unless they sympathize with the cause/activities of the individual portrayed in it.

Foil wrote:If the stereotyped and justifiably offended group is only 0.5% of the population, does that make it "okay"?

No matter how large or small the group is, if they're justifiably offended, the commercial is not OK. But, no matter how large or small a group is, if their offense is unjustified, the commercial is fine (but may be pulled for PR purposes anyway.)

Simply put, I don't think people are justified in being offended over this commercial. I know, whenever a person is offended it *seems* justified, but I don't think it actually is justified in this case.

I mean... geez... the main symbolism they played off of (a kaffiya; the guy's camo jacket also helps) is acknowledged by the people who dress that way (follow my previous link) as being supportive of the Palestinian resistance. The Palestinian resistance uses suicide bombing as one of their main tactics. So they used a symbol that people wear in support of suicide bombers. Honestly, were it not for the kaffiya, I wouldn't have even thought "that guy looks middle eastern" (his face looks hispanic to me.) So the one symbol that's being stereotyped is also a symbol that its wearers claim is in support of the act portrayed in the commercial.

"OMG I'm offended, they had a guy wearing a pro-suicide-bomber symbol who blew himself up. I interpret the pro-suicide-bomber symbol as making the guy look middle-eastern. The commercial is racist!" Riiiiiight...

Ferno, I did answer your question. It's an obvious "No." You're the only one I see who's trying to spin people's opinions here.