DescentBB

Ok.... How do you fire an MD?

Do you hold it down all the time and wait for a target or do you fire only when you see a target.

I can't seem to fire as fast as almost everyone else no matter what I do...

I play with a mouse.

Bee

Use it like a railgun. As soon as someone crosses your sights, click the mouse button. The whole sniper idea was never well-thought and thus the MD became the dogfight-killing, point-and-click weapon we all love to hate.

My typical method of shooting MD is to click the trigger before the shot is ready and hold it till it is lined up, much like releasing an arrow from a bow. Just keep the hold interval short enough to avoid the zoom.

MD gets really old really fast in VV, even on a LAN with 60 second respawn times there are still way too many MD cannons. There are a bunch of levels that ruin a solid portion of the fun of D3 by oversaturating the level with MD, but VV is probably the worst example. Way back in 99, the weapon I depended on the most was actually quad lasers, trying that kind of stunt with the way levels are played today would be nearly impossible.

D is right, point and click

The Mass Driver...

You know, based on the YouTube videos that feature Descent 3, you'd think it was the only weapon in the game.

I personally think it was the weapon that killed Descent. I remember these crazy, prolonged dogfights in Descent 1. Not so with the MD. Sure, you bob like crazy trying to avoid the damn thing. But, at the end of the day, it's point-click-dead.

Kyouryuu wrote:The Mass Driver...

You know, based on the YouTube videos that feature Descent 3, you'd think it was the only weapon in the game.

I personally think it was the weapon that killed Descent. I remember these crazy, prolonged dogfights in Descent 1. Not so with the MD. Sure, you bob like crazy trying to avoid the damn thing. But, at the end of the day, it's point-click-dead.

x3

Ok...thanks all. I'll try it.

I don't like the MD but I got into a game of Keg Party with \"TUMS\" and MD was the only weapon available.

It was kinda fun but I'm not good with it at all..

Bee

tums?


just fyi for history's sake. Original D2 Keg was really heavy on plasma; both cannons and missles. There was a couple of mods that featured Gauss and mercs.

Duper wrote:tums?


just fyi for history's sake. Original D2 Keg was really heavy on plasma; both cannons and missles. There was a couple of mods that featured Gauss and mercs.

"Tums" was a "new" player. The game only had MD's and nothing else. He was good and I didn't do very well....

Bee

For some reason I always have to be moving to hit anything with MD. Try to line up the shot more with your strafing rather than your mouse. And at the last moment make a small adjustment to make the hit.
I also can't seem to hit anyone when I think about hitting them with it. I think it's important to not think at all when using MD.
Oh and dont forget to lead for your ping. I figure if it's around 100 ping to aim a ship in front...and 200 2 ships. But sometimes it's hard to lead cause some players move all crazy like=) If that's the case just get up in their face and smackem in the nose with it. hehe

I'm not as good with the MD as some of the players here, but I've learned a lot by playing InstaReap and Veins often (I'm a flag-happy pilot by nature, so I can't resist a good game of CTF, hehe). I'm certainly not an expert, but here is the best advice I've received for shooting the MD:

First of all, practice. I was an absolutely horrible shot when I first started playing multiplayer a year or so ago, but I've improved quite a bit over time, and now I can hold my own against many of the regulars I see.

Second, unless you're camping at the end of a long hallway, avoid the deep zoom. Some players hold their shot just long enough to use the early part of the zoom to fine-tune the shot, but the best players I know usually use the \"snap-fire\" method (just get your reticle where you want to fire, and *flick* the trigger or mouse).

Third (and I don't think this will be a problem for you, Bet, given your penchant for quick maneuvers), keep moving, and learn to use your slides in coordination with your turns to aim. For quick shots, your turns/rotation should get you close to the target, and slides can help fine-tune the shot if needed. Be careful, though; when I first learned this, I over-relied on sliding to aim, which is a very poor habit.

Fourth, play with your x and y sensitivity settings. It will depend greatly on the level and your hardware, so experiment with it (for example, with my joystick, I find that \"x: 0.8 y: 0.6\" works best in Veins, given the distance of the average encounter). If your reticle is moving around your target, turn it down; if you're having trouble keeping up with your target, nudge it back up a bit.

Last, (and this is the one I still have the most learning to do) learn to anticipate and time your shots. You'll eventually find that you can swipe your reticle across the path your target is taking, so hitting them is just a matter of releasing the shot at the right time.

Anyway, I still have a lot to learn, myself. Keep up the practice, and good luck!

JazzyJet wrote:I figure if it's around 100 ping to aim a ship in front...and 200 2 ships.

Really? Dang, I have NEVER tried to take that into account. Of course, I have problems hitting people who are sitting STILL, but every little bit of extra knowledge helps. <sigh>

I think I'm improving a bit with the md, but there was so far to go that a little bit of improvement still doesn't let me hit the broad side of a barn.

Jazzy, when mousing it you don't have to move to make the hit. It's just as easy standing still. (However, when I use a stick, I find that I have to strafe into my shot.)

For mouse, what Krom said works for both stick and mouse, I mouse-down 1/2 second before they cross my sights, and release just-in-time. If you start to zoom, sometimes you can still get the hit, but it's harder because your control sensitivity changes. (Though, if you mess up enough, you get used to that, too )

Next you have to learn your timings. Practice with a flare against the wall, and try to click at exactly 1.4 seconds. the reload sound of the gun is pretty close, listen to it.
This timing also works well to dodge MD. If you have a GL in front of you, and he fires, check the timing and move/ab just as 1.4 seconds goes by, and they'll miss most every time. Just don't dodge in the same direction each time.

Testi is absolutely right. For 1v1 MD fights, there is definitely a \"rhythm\", especially when both players are snapping off shots as quickly as possible. You have to anticipate when your opponent's next shot is coming (for most players, it's as soon as the reload time is up), and dodge in a random direction just beforehand.

You can also throw off some players by waiting an extra moment to fire, and catching them just after their dodge.

I guess when I mouse I must use my ol joystick technique. Works for me but but I usually stick anyways. I never did the hold down thing I always twitch shoot no matter what I'm playing. Strafe as close as possible and twitch my wrist (stick or mouse) and hope I hit=)

I should also mention that my method works for the first shot and repeat shots. I click the trigger in before the MD is done reloading on the repeat shots and release right on the instant it reloads to get the maximum rate of fire most of the time. If it hits repeatedly it really throws peoples sense of timing off and that 1.2 seconds you have to wait in the magnum for the next round will feel like a very short time for whoever is on the receiving end.

just go into vv, only use md dont, touch anything else, and keep using it till u get better. and use ur reticle

Krom wrote:I should also mention that my method works for the first shot and repeat shots. I click the trigger in before the MD is done reloading on the repeat shots and release right on the instant it reloads to get the maximum rate of fire most of the time....

Oh, man! For some reason, I've been waiting for the reload before squeezing the trigger. I didn't know you just had to wait to release it.

No wonder a couple of players I know seem to be able to reload and fire a hair quicker than I can.

This will sound crazy, but it will help _a_lot_ with aiming.
Play Instareap games with your reticle turned OFF.
Try to hit the ships, and after some time you can \"feel\" when you would/should hit the ship.
With this intense feeling learned, you can easily hit ships when reticle is turned on again. Just wait until you feel you could hit, and shoot.
The human brain is an amazing thing ....

Great idea Munk.

btw, while I dislike a level that is heavy on the MD, I love insta-reap.

yea yeah.. i know.. go figure. There ARE reasons, just no time to type them out at lunch time. ; )

I tend to stay away from levels that have any MD at all. I don't want to spend the entire game being angry.

lets not ferget all the modifyed joystiks a if i remember right theres a fine tunein thing you can do to make your md fire faster?

Make it fire faster..? The only thing I could think of would be a hack...

yea. a hack or the tank.

Dedman wrote:I tend to stay away from levels that have any MD at all. I don't want to spend the entire game being angry.

LOL, I know that exact feeling. I'm either angry because I can't get a hit, or pissed off because I can't re-orient my ship fast enough to get out of the way of the next incoming shot. If it goes bad for 5-6 deaths, I start to lose my calm a little.

Wow how did I miss this thread? I fire it on a impulse. It's rare that I actually zoom in unless I'm a 1/2 mile away. Otherwise I've learned to use the MD quite well over the years and have a good accuracy.

Some people claim the MD killed the game. I disagree, the tank did. Tanks take twice as much damage as the other ships, fire most of their weapons a lot faster than the other ships, have the heaviest damage per-fire for most weapons, and the smallest hit sphere.

Testiculese wrote:[...] Tanks take twice as much damage [...]

That's just not true. The tank has an armor scalar of 0.87, so it can
take just about 115 damage where a pyro could only take 100. I do agree
that the tank was a mistake (too easy to repeatedly lob a blob of
100+ down some nice tight hallways).

Regarding the hit sphere; isn't it the same size for all ships?

And the MD... well... I wouldn't say it killed the game, just some of
it. Or rather, replaced some of it. Consider that the only way of reliably
avoiding a hit from a skilled MD player it to shoot him first, with the
MD (to get the knockback). And even that will only buy you a little time.

This means that with MD around, dodging is no longer the most important
element of dogfights, and that's why many players say it killed the
game.

But even the most skilled MD'ers will not always hit you if you move
erratically (``dodging'' MD), and this alleviates the issues with MD a bit.

Well, yes, I slightly exaggerated. I was taking into account the smaller hit sphere that lets it fly through a lot of stuff.

Hit spheres differ from ship to ship. The BP has the largest, then the feeni, then GL, then tank.

Hm, interesting. You'd think the tank would have the biggest one...

Nope, no protrusions from the tank, so the sphere can hug the ship.

The Lion wrote:This means that with MD around, dodging is no longer the most important element of dogfights, and that's why many players say it killed the game.

I think you've basically got it.

It's not to say that railguns can't be fun. Ironically, I think the Shock Rifle, Sniper Rifle, and Lighting Gun are all fun in Unreal Tournament. But for some reason, I find it infuriating to be on the business end of the MD. There's just something about it that isn't right.

If I could speculate on what that reason is, I would probably argue that it is the fact that a solid hit from the MD often disorients the target. Then, it is often a simple matter to finish off the target, who is now either scrambling to get themselves reoriented or staring at a pixelated wall. Thus, there is a "kick them when they are down" dynamic at play here.

it takes SKILL to aim a MD. Anyone who's good enough to nail opponents with that monster weapon deserves the kills in my opinion. So I don't see it as imbalancing at all.

Kyouryuu wrote:If I could speculate on what that reason is, I would probably argue that it is the fact that a solid hit from the MD often disorients the target. Then, it is often a simple matter to finish off the target, who is now either scrambling to get themselves reoriented or staring at a pixelated wall. Thus, there is a "kick them when they are down" dynamic at play here.

That's what I've always found most annoying when facing the business end of a skillfully-wielded MD. It's not necessarily the fact that it's instant-hint or does a healthy chunk of damage. It's the fact that I can be staring down my opponent one instant and then find my windscreen mashed up against the nearest rock wall the next. At that point, unless you're extraordinarily lucky, you're already dead (hell, if you were firing missiles, you might even wind up killing yourself). And maybe it just looks this way to my frustrated self, but it always seems that, when I do manage to land an MD hit or two on someone during a duel, they barely budge, while I pull the pinball act the first time I'm hit.

Overall, I have a rather love-hate relationship with the MD. When I'm into the game and hitting people left and right, it's immensely fun. However, when I can't hit jack-all and am getting pegged left and right (which is the far more common occurrence, unfortunately), I really can't stand the thing.

Top Gun wrote:Overall, I have a rather love-hate relationship with the MD. When I'm into the game and hitting people left and right, it's immensely fun. However, when I can't hit jack-all and am getting pegged left and right (which is the far more common occurrence, unfortunately), I really can't stand the thing.

Same here.

And same here, to an extent.

But IMHO the MD should only be in Instareap games, where the
aiming skill is intended to make up the larger part of the game.
It should not be munching away on otherwise good anarchy games.

Insta doesn't have the `kicking them when they are down' problem,
either.

You also have to deal with the fact that UT is the right game for the instant hit weapons. Descent is not, because ... well, most of the weapons AREN'T instant hit.

In D1 and 2, the instant-hit weapons (nearly anyway - there were no true instant weapons, just very fast ones) were balanced by not generally doing much damage at a hit.

I was an absolute railgun junkie in Quake 2. I ended up using it almost exclusively, and it was a very satisfying weapon requiring lots of skill and good aim. When most folks were hanging out in Rocket Arena, I was on any server that promoted railguns. Loved loved loved.

Conversely, having said that, there is nothing I loathe more in any of the Descent games, mods, or levels than the Mass Driver. The mechanics of the weapon are completely counter to all the other weapons in the game except for maybe mercury missiles, which were often limited in supply and still had some travel time, though it was very minimal. But what makes it worse than anything else is the incredibly powerful and annoying disorientation from getting hit by it. It's like giving players a weapon that completely negates all your piloting skills with a single click, doing massive damage to boot.

If there was any suggestion I could ever make from the bottom of my heart to the developers of future 6dof-type games architected in the spirit of Descent, it would be to never have anything close to the Mass Driver as a weapon choice.

The only other weapon that came close to restricting movement and forcing you to sit there and take it up the ass was the Omega cannon, and at least it had very limited range to try and compensate. Most people ended up loathing the Omega cannon for similar reasons.

Dude... really. February??

ROFL - sorry. My fault for not hitting the DBB more often. It was on the first page, so I thought I was safe. But no.. I got hit with... The Zombie! /cry