Tactics: Improving your aim?

[[]V[]essenjah]

Just wondering, can anyone advise me on how I can improve my aim?


Honestly, I don't know how mousers can even play this game. I've tried it before but I can't figure out how to turn without needing to take my hand off the mouse. That and I just can't get into a mouse that well. I pretty much need my hat switch to aim with for the most part. I just can't seem to get that dead on, without even thinking about it, accuracy. It seems like I am just not improving.


I know that one thing I'm doing wrong, is that I still tend to charge mortars. I still can't figure out why I do this


Any suggestions on software, controllers, or sensitivity settings would help a lot.


By the way, I almost require a hat switch for my sliding. I can't stand to use the keyboard for sliding.

[Krom]

Look where you are shooting, and look where the target is moving. If you think I have a pure good aim, you are completely wrong; a good portion of my aim is knowing where the target will be far in advance. I may instinctively know where you are going to slide next before YOU know where you are going to slide next. Learn how people tend to naturally move about the level while fighting, and while idle, then use that knowledge against them.

Second, 1v1 games against stronger opponents are not as useful for improving your skills as many people think. Instead, get in a CTF or TA game and play in games with highly skilled players. You will learn more by sticking close to a high skilled pilot who is being pressured in a losing game and paying attention then you would playing a dozen 1v1 games with that same pilot. Watch how a pilot with what you consider a good aim fights when they are under extreme pressure, the best pilots only perform their best when they are facing a real challenge, that is why playing a far superior pilot in a 1v1 doesn’t help much. If the opponent isn’t under any kind of pressure from you, they won’t even be able to fight at their best and you will only learn half hearted tactics.

[Behemoth]

Honestly, I don't know how mousers can even play this game.

It's mainly about keeping the other person in your view, however a mouser will always have a disadvantage when going up against a joystick player.

I know that one thing I'm doing wrong, is that I still tend to charge mortars. I still can't figure out why I do this

i was wondering the same thing

[Theftbot]

You can adjust for bad aim if you are good and have good control of sliding, you slide in the direction where you aim and will help.

Behemoth is right a joy is much superior. Knowing where the opponent is going to be is of great help(predictable pilots tsk tsk)

[d3jake]

If this thread was on .com Whollycow would be having...well..a cow...

Watch how a pilot with what you consider a good aim fights when they are under extreme pressure, the best pilots only perform their best when they are facing a real challenge, that is why playing a far superior pilot in a 1v1 doesn’t help much. If the opponent isn’t under any kind of pressure from you, they won’t even be able to fight at their best and you will only learn half hearted tactics.

I tihnk I kinda know what he's talkin' about, I've done my best moves\\lucked out when I was in a CTF level going 3v1 or so, I usually die, but not after I made a couple good shots, and possibly a kill

[Krom]

Joysticks have their advantages, mice have other advantages. Close in a joystick will press the ability to keep turning constantly as an advantage, but at range the mouse has a far superior point and click ability. Mouse pilots don't worship MD for no reason, at range MD is clearly more effective for mousers then it is for joystick users. Up close in a traditional dogfight the joystick users will have a freedom of movement advantage over the mousers, but joysticks are not universally better then mice.

[Duper]

one method we used to use in our clan (back in the day) was to make a small level with a column or two [or modeled sphere that had a band around it. We then spent a LOT of time sliding and keeping out nose pointed at it at all times as perfectly as possible while shooting at the textured band.

It doesn't simulate combat well, but it improves your focus. Leading your shots, both for movement and lag has always been the defining factor of good pilots and mediocure pilots. I fall in the latter catagory.

[Behemoth]

Joysticks have their advantages, mice have other advantages. Close in a joystick will press the ability to keep turning constantly as an advantage, but at range the mouse has a far superior point and click ability. Mouse pilots don't worship MD for no reason, at range MD is clearly more effective for mousers then it is for joystick users. Up close in a traditional dogfight the joystick users will have a freedom of movement advantage over the mousers, but joysticks are not universally better then mice.

The main advantage for joystick is the smooth/fluid banking vs the mouse/keyboard banking. as for mouse aiming, that's barely enough of an advantage if you're not using md/vauss/vulcan/gauss

[The Lion]

Munk posted a suggestion to this board earlier about improving your
aim, which is to play instareap games with your reticle turned off.

[Foil]

I'm no expert (because I haven't been playing nearly as long as many of the veterans here), but I can confirm what Krom said:

(Paraphrased) \"It's less about your ability to aim, than your ability to anticipate what the other player is going to do.\" I don't care how accurate my aim is... if I'm playing predictably, or the other player is just savvy enough to know what I'm going to do, I'm going to get whipped. This is especially true in higher-latency games.

I've started learning this rule myself, especially playing CTF with some of the best players I know; I used to predictably charge in close (I generally prefer close-in dogfights to distance play), but I'm starting to learn to use a little patience, watch what my opponent is doing, and put my shots in their path.


P.S. I'm in the middle of a month-long moving process, so threads like this really exacerbate those Descent withdrawl symptoms. Man, I wish my desktops weren't packed away...

[Duper]

You could always try an aim-bot.. most others do.

[d3jake]

I'm not sure how it would help, but, I've learned alot of trying to place my shots ahead of my enemy. It's a challenge to hit a SHip with a ping of 230+ms. But after I learned how to place shots well with a high ping, I learned how to bring the shots closer to the ship.
I think it's helped me becuase I had to place my shots further out from the ship to hit them, so it's easier to figure out their pattern, or to learn how to find out a pattern. And when you go back into an USA server, then it'll be the same idea, but you have to lead less.

These guy here will have to tell you if this would be helpful information...

[Krom]

If you like speaking in riddles Foil, then phrase it this way: \"You must not try to hit the target, instead you must become one with the target.\"

[Foil]

If you like speaking in riddles Foil, then phrase it this way: "You must not try to hit the target, instead you must become one with the target."

It doesn't happen often for me (yet), but I love it when I start to "feel" like I'm in my opponent's head. Having a sense of what's going to happen before it does is incredibly useful, to say the least.

Of course, it's spooky and frustrating when it's the other way 'round. I usually end up consciously trying to "change" the way I move, to avoid being predictable... but that doesn't always help, as it tends to throw me off my game. Any suggestions (for the situation where an opponent seems to have gotten in your head)?

[Behemoth]

put half a watermelon over your head
problem fixed

[The Lion]

Heh now we know Behemoth's secret

[Zero!]

only thing that can save u from that foil is experience

[Foil]

only thing that can save u from that foil is experience

That's kind of what I figured.

[Krom]

only thing that can save u from that foil is experience

That's kind of what I figured.

Or inexperience, ever tried to track a total newbie?

[Sulaco]

I used a tin foil lined D3 baseball cap when I played. I seemed to work at keeping the other players out of my head, and my scores improved. It shut up the voices too.

Use the extra heavy stuff intended for baking turkeys and stuff, it works better. If there's a little \"leakage\", stray noise... try grounding the foil, that'll do it...

Ok the secrets out...

[Krom]

Yup, now we know why you always went flying out of control whenever we turned on the microwave.

[Behemoth]

only thing that can save u from that foil is experience

That's kind of what I figured.

Or inexperience, ever tried to track a total newbie?

haha! i know, they can get really unpredictable at times

[Kilarin]

I used a tin foil lined D3 baseball cap when I played. I seemed to work at keeping the other players out of my head, and my scores improved. It shut up the voices too.

Don't be a fool, thats exactly what they WANT you to think!!!!

http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/

ever tried to track a total newbie?

No one ever seems to have any trouble tracking ME.

[Krom]

ever tried to track a total newbie?

No one ever seems to have any trouble tracking ME.

There is a difference between a total-newbie and a perma-newbie.

[Behemoth]

ever tried to track a total newbie?

No one ever seems to have any trouble tracking ME.

There is a difference between a total-newbie and a perma-newbie.

yeah, that difference is the ones you've killed and not killed

[WhollyCow]

If this thread was on .com Whollycow would be having...well..a cow...

You do me an injustice. I lurk rarely but equally.

Joysticks do have an advantage in terms of movement. I control all six axes of motion with my left hand on the keyboard, and since I only have five fingers, I cannot move along all six axes at once like a joystick user can. There are also some combinations I can't do (like slide left and turn left at the same time). But my config works okay for me.

I do use a mouse, but the sensitivity is so low that it's almost useless for maneuvering. The mouse is there for aiming, firing, and afterburning.

[Behemoth]

If this thread was on .com Whollycow would be having...well..a cow...

You do me an injustice. I lurk rarely but equally.

Joysticks do have an advantage in terms of movement. I control all six axes of motion with my left hand on the keyboard, and since I only have five fingers, I cannot move along all six axes at once like a joystick user can. There are also some combinations I can't do (like slide left and turn left at the same time). But my config works okay for me.

I do use a mouse, but the sensitivity is so low that it's almost useless for maneuvering. The mouse is there for aiming, firing, and afterburning.

that's the advantage, the ability to bank smoothly and slow, or fast how you wish. on joystick that is.

[[]V[]essenjah]

I think one of my problems from playing VV the other night is that I can't turn fast enough to catch someone that is tri-chording past me. By the time I have turned enough to get a hit, I'm already dead. I generally turn by sliding and turning in the same direction at once. Just tri-chording is great but there are a lot of times when tri-chording isn't the best idea. I think one thing that I need to do is learn how to AB pulse and re-adjust into a sort-of bi/tri-chord during mid-turn.


My aim is finally getting a lot better with this new stick and I'm learning to fake out again.


I also learned in VV, that it is better to lure an opponent into an area where he is actually downhill from me. I've noticed that when I am charging an enemy on an uphill slope that they tend to hit me easier with the MD because they can see me a little better.


I'm also wondering, why occasionally, even though I will die from an MD shot even though my opponent isn't even facing me. Almost like he/she shot me with his/her countermeasure gunpoint (rear gunpoint). Though, I know it isn't possible and I know that they aren't cheating. Just and odd anomaly within the game.



Do you guys have any particular sensitivity settings for particular ships that you fly?

[Diedel]

If this thread was on .com Whollycow would be having...well..a cow...

You do me an injustice. I lurk rarely but equally.

Joysticks do have an advantage in terms of movement. I control all six axes of motion with my left hand on the keyboard, and since I only have five fingers, I cannot move along all six axes at once like a joystick user can. There are also some combinations I can't do (like slide left and turn left at the same time). But my config works okay for me.

I am sorry to disappoint you, but there's only 3 (in words: three) axes of movement in Descent.

Up/down, left/right, forward/back are on one axis each. You probably mixed that up with 6dof (6 degrees of freedom, referring to 6 general directions you have the choice to move to from a given position). As you will probably not want to move in two directions on one axis simultaneously, that means three fingers at max for a maneuver. If you add two keys for directional changes (pitch and turn) you have however 5 keys, and I admit that these may be a tad hard to press simultaneously.

What can be a problem with the keyboard is that you cannot use certain combinations of keys which might e.g. give you a headache when trying to tri-chord and fire a weapon. (Well, I just noticed that you mentioned that already).

If you are also using a mouse, you will be back to three keys and can do directional changes and firing with the mouse.

I'm also wondering, why occasionally, even though I will die from an MD shot even though my opponent isn't even facing me. Almost like he/she shot me with his/her countermeasure gunpoint (rear gunpoint). Though, I know it isn't possible and I know that they aren't cheating. Just and odd anomaly within the game.

Could this be a latency problem? Are the other players close to you in such a case? If so, maybe they are behind you, having moved past you, while you still see them in front of you? Or they turned, but you haven't seen that yet?

[Krom]

I've seen ships fire MD sideways before, its a loss glitch, not really anything you can do about it. Also Messenger, one of the ways you have to avoid someone out turning you or flying past you faster then you can turn is to start turning ahead of time when you see them running like they are going to fly past you. Also it helps if you fly away from their flight path at a near 90 degree angle, the further away they are the faster they would have to be moving to out turn you, and it doesn't take much distance before no ship is fast enough to get away from your sights.

[d3jake]

One thing that I've learned that seems to help is that if you have to turn around really fast, use 2-3 axis to do it. I think I heard once that the more axis that you use the faster you turn.

[Testiculese]

I bank while turning and don't really need the mouse to help. I can keep feeni's in my sights this way. Mouse is only for point and click anyway. I have the sensitivity at .20, which is good for tracing people with vauss or plasma.

[Pandora]

I think one of my problems from playing VV the other night is that I can't turn fast enough to catch someone that is tri-chording past me. By the time I have turned enough to get a hit, I'm already dead.

The tricording principle also works for turning (at least it seems to work for me). That is, don't turn on just one axis (e.g. turn left), but use the other axis as well (so use banking and pitching simultaneously). But - like tricording - it takes some training to do it well.

[elliotm]

after fiddling with my gfx card to get a better framerate, i noticed it also was easier to aim.

two things seem to greatly affect my own performance in d3: framerate and controls...and network latency...ok so that's three

behemoth says joystick is superior??? after his kicking my butt so much with a mouse, i would never expect...

my preference by and large is a joystick. i got a nice ch products fighterstick, but it has slop. logitech 3d pro is nice until it breaks. until someone in china makes a completely optical stick that never breaks, i've come to accept that i must buy logitechs like pro basketball players buy sneakers.

...i could use nice gfx card, too...

i've played messenjah before, you not bad, at all!
but then i just started playing again after a several month hiatus so my opinion may not bear much merit, at the moment.

[Krom]

Framerate and aim do run together, just like framerate and latency run together. Descent 3 is a single threaded game, so all of your network / control inputs only get polled once per frame. So the higher your framerate, the more responsive your controls are, and the lower your ping is. That is why your aim is better at 100 FPS then it is at 50 FPS. But over about 150 FPS and it is a diminishing return. Anything 100 and up should be considered \"optimal\". So what matters is your minimum framerate.

[d3jake]

If a vid card has a high FPS of about 150-200, and drops down to 6-75, wil framecapping it help keep it stable? Or would you need to invest in some extra RAm or CPU power\\better vid card?

[Foil]

Framecapping, as the name implies, only prevents one's framerate from going above a threshold. It can't prevent your framerate from dropping below any given number.

As Krom mentioned, your top framerate isn't really all that important... it's your low framerate that you want to worry about. In other words, if your framerate is 100+, but it drops to 20 in a complex room, or when the action gets heavy, you're going to want to find some way to increase that lower framerate, either by hardware changes ($$), or by adjusting detail levels (you may not get the level of eye candy you wanted, but your play will be smoother, and you'll perform better because of it).

[Edit: I just re-read your question, and may have misunderstood. No, framecapping won't \"balance\" or \"stabilize\" your high & low FPS.]

[elliotm]

Framerate and aim do run together, just like framerate and latency run together. Descent 3 is a single threaded game, so all of your network / control inputs only get polled once per frame. So the higher your framerate, the more responsive your controls are, and the lower your ping is. That is why your aim is better at 100 FPS then it is at 50 FPS. But over about 150 FPS and it is a diminishing return. Anything 100 and up should be considered "optimal". So what matters is your minimum framerate.

ooh, that's good to know!
i just upgraded my drivers and was happy when my fps capped at 60 was stable! Maybe I could push a not as stable 80...