Hacking?

Spaceboy · Post by **Spaceboy** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:01 pm

Are hacks even possible over ip servers? Within the month I've been here I have not yet seen a hack, and see no reason to use one. However, every other game I join I'm called a hack after about a halfhour of playing... and I'm not even that good. Those who've seen me (I fly under the names 'Space' and 'Yemonkey'[I'm trying to get used to flying in the yemonkey view without a recitcle because it helps me see more of what's going on; it's harder to aim, though]) Am I just extremely skippy? Being called a hack is a compliment in itself, but irritating when everyone finds excuses to be angry with you. Is there anyway to fix skippyness? I'm on comcast and usually have pings of around 50-100- except in the 'DeepBlue' servers where everyone seems to have around 200 ping(Getting banned in the skybox server from him sparked this topic)- because I'd really rather just enjoy the game, I'm very tempted to just intentionally play worse, or something, in the place of arguing with people who dont know what trichording is...

Oh well.

Cuda68 · Post by **Cuda68** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:23 pm

Your joking right? Your profile goes back to 04 and you say that you have only been here a month? and you don't know about the crying that goes on - PLEEZE this has been talked to death over the years.

Spaceboy · Post by **Spaceboy** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:38 pm

I've only been here for a month after a two year 'break'**

I suppose i falsely assumed a community composed of mostly adults (Mabye it isn't...?) to at least have more maturity than to ban you from a server because you killed them 3x in a row when they weren't playing that well. (Most people that come to this forum seem fine, anyways, I'm only targeting people who look for any excuse to explain their death other than the fact that they dont play that well)

Anddd by your attitude from this it seems like topics like this have been brought up as often as D4? Sorry about that then.

I figure if the server I'm playing in has a host like that then that server isn't worth playing in anyway.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:44 pm

I stopped playing D3 on servers because of this very issue. First game I played in a dog's age, the accusations started flying. I just laughed and hunted the poor bugger down.

haven't been banned yet but I can't tolerate the infantile attitude anymore.

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:47 pm

Derex hosts that server.

d3jake · Post by **d3jake** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:00 pm

Heh, there are some cheats out there, probably for those who want more but Viagra isn't doing the trick. But yes, people accuse of cheating. Weather its because of deaing with too many people that play cheaters and just get frustrated, because somebody feels that cheating at a game makes them cool. Or could just be a serverop that thought that you happened to trip his ban switch thinking that you're one of our other resident cheaters...

Spaceboy · Post by **Spaceboy** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:10 pm

Haha, well, the server I was playing with was totally unloading insults at me. Honestly, i was somewhat surprised someone who ran an active server behaved like that.

Cheaters are almost non-existant now it seems, before I stopped playing a few years back there were these black pyro people whom flew through walls and fired like 50 fusion blobs a second, there's nothing like that here, now.

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:28 pm

No reason to cheat with the small amount of players we do still have.

Djcjr1 · Post by **Djcjr1** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:52 pm

Space, I've played against you a few times and never noticed anything out of the ordinary.

The D3 community seems to be at the phase of where the D1/D2 community was a few years ago. There's a bunch of skilled players who absolutely hate getting beat, and will make any kind of excuse possible to explain how they got beat. Fortunately, though, there's good/great players (no matter what their skill) who help make the game enjoyable for everyone. A simple \"GF\" can go a long way.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:19 pm

I've played you a number of times in Veins CTF since you started playing again. The first couple of games I could tell you were a bit 'rusty', but you're now playing better than most in there. Trust me, the top players in there know you're playing clean.

BTW, don't sell yourself short; you're a really good pilot, and your MD is deadly. That's why you got accused of hacking, unfortunately. Just deal with it and go on... and if it gets too bad on a particular server, feel free to bring it up at the ServerOps forum (the guys there are generally pretty good about taking care of things).

As far as reducing your 'skippy-ness', just set your PPS to 12 (\"LAN\" network setting, which should be fine if you have any kind of broadband)... or maybe just quit trichording.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:49 pm

There are a couple of pilots who complain about virtually anyone who beats them. If it's not hax, it's lag -- they claim my 200 ms ping to DeepBlue gives me an advantage over their 30 ms ping. Then they complain when I play them on the VON servers, because my 15 ms ping gives me an advantage over their 200. Then they complain on neutral ground because I'm flying a tank and that's \"cheap\" even though they're flying a tank too.

The proper response to whiners is to get them to type, and then typekill them. Then get them to whine about the typekill, and typekill them again.

The Lion · Post by **The Lion** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:55 pm

In the DeepBlue case: I don't think it was the trichording (in fact I didn't
see you trichord much for speed of movement), but the lightning reflexes
and agile ship movement. Very few pilots can do that and some players
may think it's just impossible so they cry hax. Maybe you should record
a demo or video of a game.

The op who I think banned you (I'm not 100% sure if it was him since
I haven't talked to him yet) has a tendency of whining and accusing
people like that, so you're not the first. You should definately take this
to the server-ops board.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:03 pm

The one constant in multiplayer games is the no-skill idiots who complain, insult and cry in almost every game. Most of them couldn't spot a real hack if it shot them from outside the level shell.

Neo · Post by **Neo** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:02 am

heh...

Spaceboy, I used to see you hack a few years ago. I've seen you play now, though. It's nice to see you don't need the haX anymore. =P

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:29 am

He was always a good player, to get mad at him for hacking would be like getting mad at like, all of d3k

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:31 am

Lothar wrote:There are a couple of pilots who complain about virtually anyone who beats them. If it's not hax, it's lag -- they claim my 200 ms ping to DeepBlue gives me an advantage over their 30 ms ping. Then they complain when I play them on the VON servers, because my 15 ms ping gives me an advantage over their 200. Then they complain on neutral ground because I'm flying a tank and that's "cheap" even though they're flying a tank too.

The proper response to whiners is to get them to type, and then typekill them. Then get them to whine about the typekill, and typekill them again.

actually lothar sometimes i just kill them until THEY leave.
spoilers shouldn't ruin everyones game.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:09 pm

The Lion wrote:The op who I think banned you .... has a tendency of whining and accusing people like that

Sounds like it might not be a good idea to have him as an op...

The Lion · Post by **The Lion** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:29 pm

Yeah but he sponsors the server, in fact I think he's the one who leased
(/register/whaddyacallit) it; you try convincing the admin to drop his
rights. Fortunately, he's not a complete idiot, merely a bit paranoid.
So the matter can be resolved with a bit of diplomacy.

Also, as I understand it most bans on DeepBlue aren't permanent either.
It may be lifted already (I don't know how often it's restarted).

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:13 pm

Yeah, the op there can be a bit \"trigger-happy\" with the bans, but they're usually not permanent.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:34 pm

Spaceboy wrote:every other game I join I'm called a hack after about a halfhour of playing...

I saw you in game today, and now I understand. Something really is wrong with your setup. Don't know if it's a hack, a connect issue, or an issue with your computer, but there IS something truly wrong with the way your ship moves.

Now, understand, I'm not some newbie who cries "hack" every time I get beat. I've been playing various forms of Descent for a long time. I've lanned with and/or lost to most of the all-time greats, including guys like Birdseye, kufyit, LordDeath, and Sirian. I know what Descent ships are capable of. I flew around in my pyro when you were in your BP and watched you up close, and what your ship was doing wasn't right. A bunch of other veteran pilots were saying the same thing.

Again, I'm not saying "hack". All I'm saying is "something isn't right". I don't really know what's going on. But I do know that I don't want to play in games with you.

Spaceboy · Post by **Spaceboy** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:43 pm

Haha, I'm already getting tired of descent. It's been a fun month, but now I'm getting accused of hacking every server I go into.
\"His turn speed is a little faster than normal.\"
\"Why is he going so fast? It's a hack!\"
\"I told you he was a hack.\" etc...

I'm not pointing names but i'm very surprised by who some of the accusers are. One told me turning\\moving faster may be a by-product of a new computer, I got this computer in mid-summer and have played descent3 for a long time, there was no difference in my turnspeed, and hasn't been in any ship at any time.

I really like descent, but if 70% of the community that actively plays on the ip servers has to blame defeat on ANYTHING other than the fact that i was playing good at that moment, they slipped up, or possibly they were spawning and i had a full inventory(In that case why say the obvious?)I'd rather kill a few hundred dollars and play Halo3 or something instead.

Spaceboy · Post by **Spaceboy** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:54 pm

Didn't see the post above...

Was I skippy? That's the only thing I cannot observe about myself. I've played descent probably as long as anyone here can claim, and what I see my ship do is what it actually does. I can assure you, nothing is wrong with my turnspeed. Or my speed. Or any other speed. The upper left corner of my screen, 99% of the time says I do not have packet loss, my ping was around 60 (assuming you were from the veins level, given the time of your post), my computer isn't new but it doesn't suck, I keep no edited table files or edited files in my folder.

Could it just be the style I fly? I am 100% keyboard, after all. Much of the time I turn I rotate sideways and then look up, or may use turn combinations that aren't very common or are never done on purpose.
If I wasn't skippy, nothing was wrong with me.

Money! · Post by **Money!** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:55 pm

Spaceboy wrote:)I'd rather kill a few hundred dollars and play Halo3 or something instead.

Then do it and stop being dramatic.

Or you can just man up and play through the accusations and be that much of a better player for it.

If you're not hacking, why make a whole thread about it? Just play your game. If you don't hack, you shouldn't be worried. If you get banned, go to the ServerOps, explain, and ask for unban.

People b1tch about "hackers", people b1tch about being called "hackers". The world goes round.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:58 pm

Spaceboy wrote:i'm very surprised by who some of the accusers are.

That should make you think back over the possibility that maybe there really IS something wrong on your end. There's a lot of good pilots in this community. You're one of them. But your ship moves wrong, as several other of the good pilots have pointed out.

if 70% of the community that actively plays on the ip servers has to blame defeat on ANYTHING other than the fact that i was playing good at that moment...

If I get beat because someone outplays me, I don't blame it on anything but getting outplayed. You don't hear me accusing warpig, slowboy, barry, behe, or zero of anything. But I am accusing you of having something wrong with your setup. Not saying it's a hack, but I am saying it's something.

Yes, people do sometimes have issues with new computers, new connects, or whatever. Bad patches, buggy drivers, strange network setup, or any number of other things can make your ship not move right. Look into it.

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:00 am

Do you have your D3 setup properly in the setup panel in your launcher? Click on the launcher tab and make sure that it isn't set to dial-up. That can definitely cause some major skipping right there.

Spaceboy · Post by **Spaceboy** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:00 am

Well, that's the very reason I made this thread

incase it becomes a widespread belief that I am hacking. Anddd sorry about the drama-ish stuff, noone probably cares if I leave anyway haha. I'm just frustrated with being called a hack by so many people.

Money! · Post by **Money!** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:03 am

Heh I actually wouldn't want to see you leave. Every player that comes back to Descent is welcome, and every skilled player is automatically a friend of mine. I prefer to play with people better than me.

1v1 with me sometime so I can see what these fools are talking about.

Find me in game under \"Money!\"

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:03 am

Spaceboy wrote:I'm just frustrated with being called a hack by so many people.

If it makes you feel better, neither I nor Grendel called you a hack, nor did any of the others who were in voice with us.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:05 am

Spaceboy wrote:Could it just be the style I fly? I am 100% keyboard, after all. Much of the time I turn I rotate sideways and then look up, or may use turn combinations that aren't very common or are never done on purpose.
If I wasn't skippy, nothing was wrong with me.

Well, there are no 100% keyboarders around (Iknow of) w/ your skill, so I don't know if kb only is the cause. A while ago I did suspect that kb input may be causing faster turn/slide speeds* but I never could verify that (not good enough w/ the kb and the D3 source code is not available).

*Edit: not faster - instant change of directions, a more subtle effect.

I pointed the speeds out in game to give you an idea why ppl complain. Nobody called you a hack. After all -- if 70% of the pilots yell at you, you may start wondering what the reason is.

If you are 100% kb -- kudos to the skills. Probably should start playing the piano..

Spaceboy · Post by **Spaceboy** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:06 am

MD-2389 wrote:Do you have your D3 setup properly in the setup panel in your launcher? Click on the launcher tab and make sure that it isn't set to dial-up. That can definitely cause some major skipping right there.

Checked over it, all seems fine there... Is there any other possible explanation? I'm completely willing to fix it if there is a problem.

I see no difference in any movements that I make, but enough of the better players whom I've never seen complain about something (hack related) before have told me that I am, or that something's wrong with my movements, anyway. Could it be connected to the frequency of my crashes in descent? My computer has random errors with almost every program though, including programs such as "AIM".

Spaceboy · Post by **Spaceboy** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:08 am

Grendel wrote: Probably should start playing the piano..

^^ this is me

Though, I don't know how to read notes (except for the first 5 on the right hand) and have never played any song on it other than the ones I make up. Haha.

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:10 am

Spaceboy wrote:
MD-2389 wrote:Do you have your D3 setup properly in the setup panel in your launcher? Click on the launcher tab and make sure that it isn't set to dial-up. That can definitely cause some major skipping right there.
Checked over it, all seems fine there... Is there any other possible explanation? I'm completely willing to fix it if there is a problem.

I see no difference in any movements that I make, but enough of the better players whom I've never seen complain about something (hack re-lated) before have told me that I am, or that something's wrong with my movements, anyway. Could it be connected to the frequency of my crashes in descent? My computer has random errors with almost every program though, including programs such is "AIM".

http://www.descentbb.com/viewtopic.php?t=217

I suggest you run both tests.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:21 am

Shouldn't randomly crash. For a start: Do some maintainance, run virus/adware/spuware scanners to start w/. Make sure the system is patched to the brim incl. DX. See if there are newer drivers for your hardware -- NIC, soundcard, video etc. Check for a newer BIOS (may stabilize RAM). If you overclock, ramp it down a few MHz. Check what's running in the background and deactivate/uninstal what's not necessary. Make sure Vsysnc isn't on when D3 is running (type frametime in game to check). OpenGL gives you better performance if you have an nVidia card.

Spaceboy · Post by **Spaceboy** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:23 am

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/115/pingablepy0.jpg

Test 1, I'm not 100% sure if I entered all the info right, (I asked my dad what the connection speed was and he only told me the one that was on his laptop at the moment, 54megabits- though i know it's about the same for all of our computers here, and I assumed 54 megabits was 54,000 kilabits(kbits?)

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/7201/speeedzj3.jpg

Test 2

I'm not sure exactly what they mean, but for what I know, they look okay.

Spaceboy · Post by **Spaceboy** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:30 am

Grendel wrote:Shouldn't randomly crash. For a start: Do some maintainance, run virus/adware/spuware scanners to start w/. Make sure the system is patched to the brim incl. DX. See if there are newer drivers for your hardware -- NIC, soundcard, video etc. Check for a newer BIOS (may stabilize RAM). If you overclock, ramp it down a few MHz. Check what's running in the background and deactivate/uninstal what's not necessary. Make sure Vsysnc isn't on when D3 is running (type frametime in game to check). OpenGL gives you better performance if you have an nVidia card.

I dont know too much about computers, although my uncle works with\\fixes, and builds computers, and he made this one. Last time he fixed it up was mabye around 3 months ago, and Descent had crashed then. (I didnt come online for awhile after Descent had been installed onto this computer.) I'm almost positive he fully updated everything he could, and I have a GeForce 7600 graphics card. I also have an anti virus program that runs about once a week or so.

Spaceboy · Post by **Spaceboy** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:35 am

Grendel wrote: *Edit: not faster - instant change of directions, a more subtle effect.

I switch between .00 .05 and .10 keyboard ramping. Also, most of the time I turn I'm pressing about 2-4 buttons at once. (Not counting firing)

Mabye I could video my Descent screen with the keyboard in view or something?

Zero! · Post by **Zero!** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:15 am

ur RWIN is too high

EDIT: btw u cut off some important notices at the bottom of ur tweak test.

Spaceboy · Post by **Spaceboy** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:43 am

Zero! wrote:ur RWIN is too high

EDIT: btw u cut off some important notices at the bottom of ur tweak test.

re-did the test, it says...

-Choose RWIN between 506620 and 1350500 (FAQ #586)

-If you have GlobalMaxTcpWindowSize registry entry (do a REGEDIT Find) then change it to -1 (decimal)

-Vista has no tunable TCP settings

-Read the tweak FAQ

-Observations:
Good data stream (no/few rexmits)

-Observations:
Become pingable
if you need basic packet loss tests done
Check tweak FAQ

The Lion · Post by **The Lion** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:20 am

AFAIK your network connection was fine. This seemingly \"instant change
of direction\" is what I meant by the agile ship movement. I notice the same
thing when watching Javed, and he's also accused of cheating by a lot of
people. Perhaps you could record a short (2 minutes or so) video of a D3
game? If this is indeed a configuration issue (as suggested earlier in this
thread) we should definately try to understand and document it, so everyone
involved knows what's going on and how to deal with it.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:51 am

These guys (Lothar & Grendel) aren't being accusatory, SB. They're better than I am at spotting \"weirdnesses\", and they will definitely help if they can.

For example, Grendel worked with one of the RIP members a while back on a similar problem, which turned out to be a soundcard/driver causing the D3 clock speed to be too high (effectively causing his D3 to run too fast). He had no idea it was happening, and he was getting frustrated at the hack accusations, too. Grendel helped the guy sort it out, though... you can trust him.

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