Rant re: \"Minor\" enhancements

[Foil]

Okay, I have something to say. I'm not going to \"name names\" or give out specifics, but I feel this needs to be said.

If you can't play clean, don't play at all.

-------------

Before the \"Stupid ban-happy server-op!\" calls start, listen to me for a moment.

I've been around long enough to know that good players get accused of hacking. I've been the subject of such accusations, myself. Heck, when I was a newbie, there were many times I wondered how certain players could tear me apart like they do, but I've learned since then.

As a server admin (I run the [RIP]Rockies servers), I also know that 99% of the \"so-and-so is a hacker\" complaints I get are completely unfounded. If I applied kicks and bans simply because of skill I don't understand, I would have banned players like Warpig^BoTS^, Behemoth, Bunyip, CandyAss, and others (all of whom kick the crap out of me) a long time ago. I know better than that.

-------------

Well, in the past few months (twice in the last week or so), I've had to deal with a few cases where the complaints turned out to be verifiably true.

In most cases, it was a matter of blatant personal threats and racial attacks (way beyond simple trash-talking), which could be verified in multiple screenshots and server logs. It was fairly straightforward that that kind of behavior warranted at least a temporary ban.

...However, in the most recent two, it turned out to be a matter of what the players considered \"minor/insignificant alterations\" to the ship and/or weapons settings in the table.gam file! (Ex: changes to ship physics like acceleration, changes to weapon actions like recoil and shake, etc.)

In both cases, I didn't initially believe the accusations. However, after looking into the evidence (server logs, chat logs in one case where he talked about the edits, and the altered table.gam file itself in the other case), it was clear.

-------------

Honestly, this gets me riled up more than anything. I don't care if they're a good, bad, or mediocre player; it doesn't matter if it's \"only a minor tweak\". The rule on my servers is that tablefile/physics alterations are not kosher, period. Why do people think they are acceptable?

The excuses I've heard essentially say things like \"The weapon recoils and shakes too much\", \"it takes me too long to turn or change direction\", \"Everyone else does it\", etc. It makes me wonder:

Where does this come from? What kind of rationality comes to the conclusion that says it's okay to \"cheat just a little\" with player physics/weapon enhancements?

Is it like the steroids mentality in higher-level sports, or what? What makes people think this kind of thing is okay?

[Spaceboy]

Post what I sent to you on here. All of it.

Tablefile changes do affect gameplay on dedicated servers. Ship and physics changes do not just apply to singleplayer, they affect multiplayer exactly the same.

Fundamentally, 'minor tweaks' are essentially a superstition, haha. Before you go accusing a form of lag as a hack, TEST it yourself. That sounds like a conclusion out of nowhere, and to my knowledge, isn't really even possible.
I just tested to see if it was possible myself, and the screen freezes and the game crashes in mid-load. I'm assuming it will do the same to you if you actually take a step further than accusations.

Also, I won't re-write it right now assuming foil will post it (I wrote alot to him in PM, I don't want to re-write it all but will if I have to),

The most effective anti hack is giving a level it's own tablefile.
The table file of an individual level overrides a table file that might be sitting in someone's folder. That way, if you hypothetically gave veins a table file that replaced all ships and weapons with ships and weapons exactly like them, it would be impossible to hack in that individual level. If someone tried to extract that table file from the level and re-insert an edited version of it, Descent would recognize that as a different level. That's also something I found out around 5 years ago, I'm just surprised noone's done it really.

[Ferno]

I have a fairly good idea who you're talking about.. and if it sets you off THAT bad, why don't you talk to them about it instead of ranting about it?

[Cuda68]

If I read this right he did try to speak with them:


The excuses I've heard essentially say things like \"The weapon recoils and shakes too much\", \"it takes me too long to turn or change direction\", \"Everyone else does it\", etc. It makes me wonder:

[WarAdvocat]

I've been on the wrong side of cheating accusations plenty of times. My feelings on the subject are pretty simple. Cheaters, or people who 'modify the game' to gain an advantage are pathetic losers. It's hard to imagine having that little self-respect, but plainly there are a number of people out there who think it's acceptable to cheat. Worse, it's only a short step from accusing people of cheating to cheating yourself. Somehow these inadequate personalities think that the only way someone can beat them is cheating, and since someone else is cheating, they should cheat too.

Personally, as long as they're not utterly invincible, I say 'let them cheat, it only makes me stronger'. If I am not having fun, I leave them to their fruitless self-gratification and find something else to do.

[Gandalf Stormcrow]

The best hack is hard work. Play a lot and want to get better. Think.

[Foil]

Note: Please do not make assumptions about "who it was"; in fact, this was more than one person, for more than one variation of tablefile alterations. I'm not going to name names, sorry.

Fundamentally, 'minor tweaks' are essentially a superstition, haha. ... to my knowledge, isn't really even possible.

Tell that to the veteran players here who have seen everything from the most blatantly obvious alterations (fly-through-walls, superfast weapons, etc.) to some of the most subtle ones (acceleration, weapon effect tweaks). Heck, anyone who has ever played with a tablefile for fun can tell you they work.

The most effective anti hack is giving a level it's own tablefile.

Yep. Apparently you know a little something when it comes to tablefiles. Unfortunately, for most of the existing popular levels, this wasn't done.

...why don't you talk to them about it instead of ranting about it?

If I read this right he did try to speak with them...

In one of the cases, yes, I spoke with them personally.

Personally, as long as they're not utterly invincible, I say 'let them cheat, it only makes me stronger'.

As a player, absolutely. I just go after 'em.

As a server admin, it's different. In both cases, the issue got to the point where it could no longer be ignored.

[Hattrick]

I don't consider any alteration that changes the way the weapons work or ship moves \"minor\" in any aspect of the word.

A minor altreration would be a new type of reticle or a ship skin. But of course there are some out there who call those blatant hacks also.

incidently, those \"minor alterations\" have been around since we had the SQN servers going. We had one pilot even admit to using them and then was inredibly suprised to find out he had been banned from the servers. Go figure eh?

[Krom]

Anything that is purely appearance related I don't care about, people can make their ships and weapons look like whatever they want. Same applies to how things sound. I use a replacement sound file for one type of shield hit that I got out of the missile-hit-shields sound from Freespace because it just sounds cooler. I also use a replacement typing icon...you know, the target one...

But changing how the ship turns or moves, or changing how weapons fire is wrong, no matter how \"minor\" they think it is.

[WarAdvocat]

I'm ok with visual mods/reticles/sounds/etc too. They're essentially cosmetic...I even use a modded reticle. I think it's pretty nifty, actually =)

[Foil]

Yes, visual alterations like skin and reticle changes are generally considered acceptable (I do take exception to things like partially-transparent wall rendering, though).

In these cases, it was the ship physics and weapon alterations that \"crossed the line\".

[Krom]

There is a valid mode that allows you to see around corners in D3 without exposing yourself, type byebyemonkey, activate third person view and you can angle your ship to do it. Setting textures to transparent is about the same as setting it so you can get out of the level: cheating.

[WhollyCow]

Heh. That \"valid\" trick to see around walls is clever, Krom. (And evil.)

I think that a subtle hack, such as what Foil is talking about, is worse for the community than blatant hacks. When we had people flying through walls and spraying huge clouds of fusion, it was very annoying, but most everybody agreed about what was going on. But if there are people with minor game tweaks, then come the accusations, counter-accusations, nastiness, and bad feelings. (I give Foil credit for being diplomatic in this thread. Kudos.)

I remember a time on PXO when it was widely believed that a client-side hack was impossible. In that time, ANYONE who complained of cheating was labeled a whiner and subsequently ignored. But over time the accusations got more serious, and then the obvious cheats appeared-- hackers who weren't trying to play Descent, who just wanted to disrupt and spoil games. Since then, the flame wars have been much uglier.

Most people understand that changing your ship's speed or rate of fire is cheating. It's less obvious (to people familiar with groundpounders) that changing acceleration and turn rate are also cheats. Maybe some people don't realize that these limits are key to making the game fun. Or maybe they do, and winning is just that important to them.

As for our response? I think Bunyip has it right.

[Krom]

Heh. That "valid" trick to see around walls is clever, Krom. (And evil.)

I thought of it when foil mentioned see through walls. I've never actually used third person view in MP for any length of time, and I doubt it would give anyone much of an advantage outside of customized map to take advantage of it.

The only place that it could give you a serious hand is in single player level 4 with the trains, you could use it to see if a train is coming or not more easily and safely than actually ducking out. But thats about it, the rest of it like having a blind spot where the ship is, aiming lag, etc makes it more or less useless. Although it does get rid of the screen shake effect (just watch that ship rattle when you use that mode, its funny).

[Money!]

The game was made how it was for a reason. Nothing needs to be changed as far as I'm concerned. Foil thank you for handling this the way you did. Know that the majority of the population here agrees with you.