DescentBB

I 100% agree with Powell

I think Powell has thrown the baby out with the bathwater on the Ayers issue.
If some people are so dumb they think Obama is a terrorist because he worked repeatedly with Ayers or that he's a Muslim because of his middle name and early childhood then those voters aren't going to vote for a black man anyway.
But if you refuse to consider or allow people to discuss Obama's extreme liberal and militant views in his education, politics and early adult life because it might also feed the prejudice in some bigots or simpltons then you have done a great disservice to the process!
Certainly Obama's background is a legitimate concern and should be looked at. Ayers isn't just a guy who set off a bunch of bombs and got away on a technicality back in the sixties then became a normal citizen. He's always been radical militant activist. Working as a proffessor doesn't make him benevolant!
He's been involved in establishing \"re-education\" of thousands of children in the liberal mold, distributed 100's of millions of dollars with Obama's direct involvement to accomplish those goals. Used radicals like the Black Panthers to raise money for Obama's education and later his political campaigns.

These are important lines that are censored from appearing on Obama's resume that shouldn't be dismissed just because some people might take those associations to an extreme conclusion!

What is the difference in censoring the race in the description of a bank robbery suspect because he's black so that bigots won't associate blacks with crime?!? Shouldn't the police be able to know it is a black suspect they are trying to find?!?

Powell also suggested the benefits of Obama being black shows we are inclusive in America, that having a President Obama will put a better face on the U.S. in relations with Islamic countries.
Well I agree, but what else will Obama bring to the table that the Islamists will enjoy? Is he going to be too passive, too inclusive, too sympathetic to their cause? That is something you can only make an educated guess at if you are allowed to consider his past!
Apparently our media, and now Powell, see Obama's political success as more important than the countries right to examine our candidates openly.

“McCain is unsure about how to deal with the economic crisis”

Well duh, and so is everyone else…But I’m sure the great Obama has all the answers.

I always knew Powell wasn’t a Republican. Watch…next he will change his party.

A bunch of other 'Republicans' are coming out of the closet, too, and endorsing Obama.

I like Obama, but imho, Powell should of been our first Black president. It's a shame he didn't want it.

Ok I have a problem with 1st black president. (PERIOD) Does it matter a person's color or gender to serve? I think not! What matters is said person's objectives. Race baiting is passe.

As a person of pale color, I see no reason why any one couldn't be president of these here United States. I grew up believing ANYONE can be president, and now that IT COULD happen, I have to say, no matter what, I support senior citizen rights.

It does matter, because it will be historic.

200 years from now people will know Washington, Lincoln, and if he wins, Obama. He is the beginning of the end of the civil rights movement. When you were a kid, didn't you thumb through the pictures of all the presidents at least once? Wouldn't you of stopped to take note if the white male trend came to an abrupt stop?

Voting for or against someone because of race, is racist. But simply taking note of race, and its implications, is far from it.

You may hate Obama's policies and what not, but no one can deny that if he wins he will have a huge place in American history. If he wins, and before it is all said and done, I have little doubt that \"we are the ones we've been waiting for...\" will out resonate through history \"I have a dream.\"

So if we are going to give Obama that place in our History. One that doesn't just show other countries who we are, but one that will also show other generations who we were....well, then he damn well better deserve it!

I think thats why I would of rather Powell.

I assume that everyone is also aware that Obama has promised Powell a position?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081020/ts ... S5pkdsnwcF

If Powell knew about that before making his comments, it would make him appear a bit self-serving and would cloud the sincerity of his comments, you suppose?

TechPro wrote:I assume that everyone is also aware that Obama has promised Powell a position?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081020/ts ... S5pkdsnwcF

If Powell knew about that before making his comments, it would make him appear a bit self-serving and would cloud the sincerity of his comments, you suppose?

Obama has been taking advice from Powell for the past two years. It would only be natural to continue taking advice from such a counsel-worthy man.

Gandalf Stormcrow wrote:

TechPro wrote:I assume that everyone is also aware that Obama has promised Powell a position?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081020/ts ... S5pkdsnwcF

If Powell knew about that before making his comments, it would make him appear a bit self-serving and would cloud the sincerity of his comments, you suppose?

Obama has been taking advice from Powell for the past two years. It would only be natural to continue taking advice from such a counsel-worthy man.

Yes, Powell is a VERY cousel-worthy man. I did note that he said he'd known Obama for two years and later mentioned that he's watched Obama while Obama has been campaigning the last two years ... I only have one question... If Powell has only known Obama for the last two years and Obama has been busy campaigning for the last two years, how much "work" (other than campaigning) has Obama really been able to do (speaking of work that makes Obama a good potential President)?

Remember kiddies, Powell was the point man on WMD & Bush’s war. I am picturing a man with a vial in his hand. And as I recall, most Democrats were calling that a bunch of lies. So now you will trust him to tell you the truth, about whether a candidate has qualifications or not. No sorry…fool me once…. But I’m sure you will now trust him now, because he’s saying what you want to hear.

I also have to ask, were there any other liberals whom Powell endorsed for president…answer…No.

Maybe it’s a black thing.

I also have to ask, were there any other republicans whom Joe Lieberman endorsed for president…answer…No. (And appeared at their convention!?!?!?! At the very least give Powell credit for not doing that!)

Maybe it’s a white thing.

What about the first part of my point?

As far as Joe Lieberman, he was dis’ed by his own party, what do you expect? Sorry, a Fail on that analogy. Republicans helped Powell all along his political career, and McCain even helped his son get a job in the Clinton administration.

Screw the people who helped get you to where you are today? I have lost all my respect for the man, and I did support him for president.

Obama campaigned for Lieberman during that dis your talking about!!!!

Obama helped him along in his political career, when things were looking bleak and he lost his own primary!

\"Screw the people who helped get you to where you are today?\"

exactly.

\"I have lost all my respect for the man, and I did support him for president.\"

I supported Lieberman for president . I voted for him over Al Gore in the primary in 2000. But I still don't mind Lieberman, because I don't really think this was a white thing. I think it was him doing what he happens to think is best for the county. He's dead wrong, but hes acting on principle.

If you still don't like the Lieberman analogy, which is spot on, what about Chris Buckley? Or the many other republicans who have abandoned ship?

How come Colin Powell is the only one that gets slapped with the \"its because he is black\" card?

....could it be....because he is black?

Figures, like I always say \"They’re all lowlifes\"

There’s just no honor among thieves anymore.

Posted before your edit.^

I don’t think it’s really a black thing, just ugly politics.

Gooberman wrote:It does matter, because it will be historic.

200 years from now people will know Washington, Lincoln, and if he wins, Obama. He is the beginning of the end of the civil rights movement. When you were a kid, didn't you thumb through the pictures of all the presidents at least once? Wouldn't you of stopped to take note if the white male trend came to an abrupt stop?

Voting for or against someone because of race, is racist. But simply taking note of race, and its implications, is far from it.

You may hate Obama's policies and what not, but no one can deny that if he wins he will have a huge place in American history. If he wins, and before it is all said and done, I have little doubt that "we are the ones we've been waiting for..." will out resonate through history "I have a dream."

So if we are going to give Obama that place in our History. One that doesn't just show other countries who we are, but one that will also show other generations who we were....well, then he damn well better deserve it!

I think thats why I would of rather Powell.

My comments are not @ you Gooberman, because they do not go to what I think was the point of your post.

However, I have gotten the impression that some people think we do need to vote for Obama just because it would be historic to have him elected.

I do not agree.

In the first place, Josef Stalin, The Great Leap Forward, bubonic plague, Attila the Hun, etc, were also all historic, but that doesn't mean we should want to see them repeated. Obama's election would be historic in some respect, but how that election would be remembered will depend strongly on what Obama does after he is elected. If Obama has a Jimmy Carter-quality presidency, then I think his lofty campaign rhetoric will have been for nought. If he were to make race a focus of his presidency, and it fails, then he could set the cause of civil rights back many years for otherwise qualified candidates - and that would be a real shame.

If John McCain were black, that fact would not keep me from voting for him. I could have supported Obama if he had lived up to some of his rhetoric about being the vanguard of the "new politics" - but he had failed to do this, and failed miserably. He said he would take public money, then flip-flopped when he found that his spoken sweet nothings would bring in boatloads of cash. He hasn't shown me that he has the courage to admit loudly and clearly that he was wrong when he had made an error. He hasn't gone out of his way to rein in the rabid frothings of the far Left of his party, because he found they were to his political advantage, at least as far as apparent poll numbers were going. Going against the crass political wisdom - now that would have been the new politics; a politics of issues and serious, rational discussions. And this is not what has happened.

Barack Obama is nothing special. He's just a garden variety politician, and we already have a plethora of them in Washington. It seems like some constituencies are already lining up to the Federal trough, anticipating an Obama victory. I think he has written a lot of checks that he cannot possibly cash. I would be happy to see us elect a non-white president, but I just don't see why I should be happy that it is going to be this fellow.

Well you almost caught me there Goob, nice diversion.

I will give you the analogy is spot on, as you say, but the problem is…it’s not a defense of Powell. I still question his motivations & credibility, and just because someone else has done it too, is meaningless unless you want to get into a schoolyard argument…nah, nah, nah…you too.

I really need to stop responding so quickly, because after I thought about it, while working on my basement walls, I realized you were using diversion tactics, that don’t defend Powell’s actions, but only serve to distract from the issue.

Spidey wrote:Remember kiddies, Powell was the point man on WMD & Bush’s war. I am picturing a man with a vial in his hand. And as I recall, most Democrats were calling that a bunch of lies. So now you will trust him to tell you the truth, about whether a candidate has qualifications or not. No sorry…fool me once…. But I’m sure you will now trust him now, because he’s saying what you want to hear.

I also have to ask, were there any other liberals whom Powell endorsed for president…answer…No.

I respected Powell before the WMD thing. I disagreed with Powell and all of the Bush administration who took us to war with Iraq precipitously. But here is what distinguishes Powell: he subsequently quit out of disagreeing with the Bush administration and also subsequently admitted to his own error. No one else with his profile can say that. Spidey, this hardly makes an appreciation of the Obama endorsement cherrypicking. I admire Powell all the more so because he stood up and admitted his error and chose to step down rather than go along with bad policy.

Yes, right-wingers, it's just possible that someone could take a stance for someone against McCain without being a racist, without currying favor for a job, and without being a socialist.

Spidey wrote:Maybe it’s a black thing.

As for this?

So true i posted it twice!

And all of a sudden, a Republican is the greatest thing since French bread…Uh huh.

I'm not here to make a partisan point. Just a rational one. You can resume the usual DBB nonsense without me now. carry on.

Spidey wrote:Well you almost caught me there Goob, nice diversion.

I will give you the analogy is spot on, as you say, but the problem is…it’s not a defense of Powell. I still question his motivations & credibility, and just because someone else has done it too, is meaningless unless you want to get into a schoolyard argument…nah, nah, nah…you too.

I really need to stop responding so quickly, because after I thought about it, while working on my basement walls, I realized you were using diversion tactics, that don’t defend Powell’s actions, but only serve to distract from the issue.

I think we both got a little caught up in that you posted so soon and I was making a sizable edit. Sorry, it wasn't intentional.

However, I would only be making the "nah nah nah, you too argument", if I was actually saying Lieberman did it too. I wasn't, as I said I didn't really think Lieberman did it because he is white, I think he did it out of principle.

I am defending Powell by defending Lieberman, whose stories, to me, seem quite similar. Where for either one you could jump to the conclusion that it was because of race, but I think that would be the incorrect one.

That was the analogy I was attempting to make.

dissent wrote:In the first place, Josef Stalin, The Great Leap Forward, bubonic plague, Attila the Hun, etc, were also all historic, but that doesn't mean we should want to see them repeated. Obama's election would be historic in some respect, but how that election would be remembered will depend strongly on what Obama does after he is elected. If Obama has a Jimmy Carter-quality presidency, then I think his lofty campaign rhetoric will have been for nought. If he were to make race a focus of his presidency, and it fails, then he could set the cause of civil rights back many years for otherwise qualified candidates - and that would be a real shame.

I agree. No doubt that there is an enourmous pressure on Obama's shoulders to deliver. I've said before, I wish Obama had waited. And its one of the main reasons I would of rather it been Colin Powell. I think Obama is a bit sharper then Powell, but Powell comes with a lifetime of distinguished service. He is more likley to know then to rationalize.

I'm not here to make a partisan point. Just a rational one. You can resume the usual DBB nonsense without me now. carry on.

Thanks.

<3 Palzon

Palzon wrote:I'm not here to make a partisan point. Just a rational one. You can resume the usual DBB nonsense without me now. carry on.

So, Pal…you just going to post and run?

Spidey wrote:

Palzon wrote:I'm not here to make a partisan point. Just a rational one. You can resume the usual DBB nonsense without me now. carry on.

So, Pal…you just going to post and run?

Hit and run is a viable tactic.