hey krom can you fire me a PM with your email, so i can show you my newest wish list?
i need your opinion
New PC build
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Krom
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So its a:
Corsair 950W PSU
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9650
EVGA nForce 790i SLI FTW
EVGA GeForce GTX 260 Core 216/1792 MB x2 SLI
Lite-On 20X DVDRW
Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 64bit
OCZ PC10666 DDR3 / 1333 (4x2 = 8 GB)
Thermaltake case
and a Western Digital Caviar Black 1 TB drive...
Well, I can't say I'm too big on spending $350 on a Core 2 Quad these days, the i7 860 pretty soundly defeats the Q9650 and costs $290 (on egg) which makes the Q9650 on tigerdirect make no sense. In a number of benchmarks you would even be playing second to the $245 Phenom II X4 965 BE. Sure you might lose a little on the motherboard, but it shouldn't be too hard to make the board/CPU for an i7 860 come in under the $60 extra you would be paying for that Q9650.
Do not buy Windows Vista even if you were ordering it tonight, you could get Windows 7 shipped already because the OEM copies started shipping on the 13th.
The video card with 1792 MB is a gimmick, save a few and go for one of the 896 MB ones. By the time games need more than 896 MB of texture memory the GPU will be useless anyway.
For that matter, ditch the SLI entirely and go for a bigger single card solution. If you can find a Radeon HD 5870 anywhere it will work better for you than the SLI setup and save a great deal of power/heat in the process.
The sound blaster doesn't do much these days because onboard sound is so good, but that's up to you if you really want it.
Other than that, you could snoop around for the latest generation hardrive that uses 500 GB platters to get the best price/performance and reduced heat/power requirements if you are up to it.
Corsair 950W PSU
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9650
EVGA nForce 790i SLI FTW
EVGA GeForce GTX 260 Core 216/1792 MB x2 SLI
Lite-On 20X DVDRW
Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 64bit
OCZ PC10666 DDR3 / 1333 (4x2 = 8 GB)
Thermaltake case
and a Western Digital Caviar Black 1 TB drive...
Well, I can't say I'm too big on spending $350 on a Core 2 Quad these days, the i7 860 pretty soundly defeats the Q9650 and costs $290 (on egg) which makes the Q9650 on tigerdirect make no sense. In a number of benchmarks you would even be playing second to the $245 Phenom II X4 965 BE. Sure you might lose a little on the motherboard, but it shouldn't be too hard to make the board/CPU for an i7 860 come in under the $60 extra you would be paying for that Q9650.
Do not buy Windows Vista even if you were ordering it tonight, you could get Windows 7 shipped already because the OEM copies started shipping on the 13th.
The video card with 1792 MB is a gimmick, save a few and go for one of the 896 MB ones. By the time games need more than 896 MB of texture memory the GPU will be useless anyway.
For that matter, ditch the SLI entirely and go for a bigger single card solution. If you can find a Radeon HD 5870 anywhere it will work better for you than the SLI setup and save a great deal of power/heat in the process.
The sound blaster doesn't do much these days because onboard sound is so good, but that's up to you if you really want it.
Other than that, you could snoop around for the latest generation hardrive that uses 500 GB platters to get the best price/performance and reduced heat/power requirements if you are up to it.
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Krom
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Again a Q9550 doesn't make any sense when the i5 750 is around for the same price or less (although it lacks the HT support of its bigger siblings which hurts performance a little bit). Once the dual core Clarkdale and Westmere parts ship LGA 775 will be essentially completely dead, LGA 775 is a rapidly sinking ship.
The 275 is decent, although all current generation Nvidia parts are a tough sell in the face of the ATI competition in this cycle. The GTX 200 series is no match for the Radeon HD 4800 series but they are still priced like they are.
ZipZoomFly already shipped my copy of W7, try there if Newegg doesn't have the parts you want since their prices are as good or sometimes a little better than Newegg even.
The 275 is decent, although all current generation Nvidia parts are a tough sell in the face of the ATI competition in this cycle. The GTX 200 series is no match for the Radeon HD 4800 series but they are still priced like they are.
ZipZoomFly already shipped my copy of W7, try there if Newegg doesn't have the parts you want since their prices are as good or sometimes a little better than Newegg even.
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Admiral LSD
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Yeah, definitely go for a Lynnfield if you're buying now (and have your heart set on DDR3). As Krom points out, both the i5-750 and the i7-860 are not only cheaper than the Q9650 (which was never worth it over the Q9550 anyway) you're looking at, they give it a decent hiding at the same time. Pricing on P55 mobos is still a little steep, but with the $60-150 you'd be saving by opting for the Lynnfield CPU you can cover the difference without increasing overall system cost all that much, if at all.
Same story with the graphics card. The Radeon 5870 demolishes everything on the nVidia side up to the GTX 295, which it levels with for the most part. The key exception is in games lacking SLi/Crossfire optimisation, where the 5870s single GPU configuration sees it maintaining the same strong performance and the 295 falling to the bottom of the pack. The kicker though is that despite all this, it's priced in the middle of GTX 285 territory. For the same money as a 275, you can get a Radeon 5850 that not only smokes the 275, but makes the 285 nervous as well. Below that, the 4800-series still post decent numbers at quite attractive price points. nVidia's 300-series GPUs are still 3-6 months away at the earliest and even when they do arrive, low yields are going to result in limited availability and high prices.
Same story with the graphics card. The Radeon 5870 demolishes everything on the nVidia side up to the GTX 295, which it levels with for the most part. The key exception is in games lacking SLi/Crossfire optimisation, where the 5870s single GPU configuration sees it maintaining the same strong performance and the 295 falling to the bottom of the pack. The kicker though is that despite all this, it's priced in the middle of GTX 285 territory. For the same money as a 275, you can get a Radeon 5850 that not only smokes the 275, but makes the 285 nervous as well. Below that, the 4800-series still post decent numbers at quite attractive price points. nVidia's 300-series GPUs are still 3-6 months away at the earliest and even when they do arrive, low yields are going to result in limited availability and high prices.
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Krom
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Admiral LSD is right about the Geforces vs Radeons right now. AMD caught Nvidia with the 4800 and now the 5800 series and Nvidia pretty much just threw their arms in the air and are doing nothing about it. So what has happened is the Nvidia 200 series are over priced and under performing when compared to the competition and Nvidia has no plans to correct it. They are banking it all on the 300 series which is still a ways away and won't be affordable to us mere mortals for even longer anyway. If you are planning on sticking with Nvidia because of drivers or just plain brand loyalty, I'd stick to an inexpensive placeholder for now and see if the 300 series really delivers like Nvidia is hoping.
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Admiral LSD
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I think it's less nVidia not wanting to do anything about it and more that there isn't much they can do. They simply can't produce G200 GPUs in sufficient numbers to sell them profitably. These problems look likely to spill over into G300 production as well which is going to make things a whole lot worse.
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Krom
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The problem with the 200 series is they are too big, if they had spun them out on a smaller process node it wouldn't have been as much of a problem. But because they have so much silicon in each chip they are too expensive to make for them to be price competitive. After they got burned a while back by jumping on a smaller process node too early and getting to the market late, they went too far the other way this time and were too cautious. Which means their huge 65nm parts were stuck competing against AMDs much smaller 55nm parts. The 300 series is supposed to be 45 or 40nm so they shouldn't have that problem anymore.
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BUBBALOU
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Just remember AceCombat and anyone else purchasing Windows 7
DO NOT GET THE HOME EDITION OEM !!!!
snippet
\"XP Mode consists of the Virtual PC-based virtual environment and a fully licensed copy of Windows XP with Service Pack 3 (SP3). It will be made available, for free, to users of Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise, and Ultimate editions via a download from the Microsoft web site. (That is, it will not be included in the box with Windows 7, but is considered an out-of-band update, like Windows Live Essentials.)\"
So if your going to purchase the Home Edition with the thought of Full XP Compatibility features ......think again
need it... download
DO NOT GET THE HOME EDITION OEM !!!!
snippet
\"XP Mode consists of the Virtual PC-based virtual environment and a fully licensed copy of Windows XP with Service Pack 3 (SP3). It will be made available, for free, to users of Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise, and Ultimate editions via a download from the Microsoft web site. (That is, it will not be included in the box with Windows 7, but is considered an out-of-band update, like Windows Live Essentials.)\"
So if your going to purchase the Home Edition with the thought of Full XP Compatibility features ......think again
need it... download
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Krom
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Everything looks ok, but you should know that the i7 860 is pretty much always faster than the i7 920 because it has a higher main clock (2.8 GHz vs 2.66 GHz) and a much higher turbo clock (3.46 GHz vs 2.93 GHz) it also loses very little in actual memory bandwidth due to controller improvements and a higher memory clock. On that subject, unless you like splitting hairs over fractions of a percent in any real world scenario; stick with either 1066 MHz memory for the 900 series or 1333 MHz memory for the 800 series, the processors just do not need any more bandwidth than that (aiming for lower latency won't hurt though).
If you picked the 920 for the triple channel vs dual channel memory benefits, you should take note that triple channel memory was brought in for the future 6-8 core versions of Nehalem. Quad cores never did and never will have a use for more than dual channel memory, especially in the 2-3 GHz clock speed range. And the 860's higher clocks all around compared to the 920 more than compensate for the lack of a third memory channel.
As you are no longer going to be running a power expensive SLI, you should be able to knock that PSU down to a 700-750w for around $120. I recommend OCZ since I am very happy with my GamerXtreme 700 that I have been using without a hitch for almost 3 years. The peak draw on that system shouldn't exceed 350w and an i7 800 series chip will idle with total system power under 100w, so you don't need something huge unless you plan on overclocking like a madman.
If you picked the 920 for the triple channel vs dual channel memory benefits, you should take note that triple channel memory was brought in for the future 6-8 core versions of Nehalem. Quad cores never did and never will have a use for more than dual channel memory, especially in the 2-3 GHz clock speed range. And the 860's higher clocks all around compared to the 920 more than compensate for the lack of a third memory channel.
As you are no longer going to be running a power expensive SLI, you should be able to knock that PSU down to a 700-750w for around $120. I recommend OCZ since I am very happy with my GamerXtreme 700 that I have been using without a hitch for almost 3 years. The peak draw on that system shouldn't exceed 350w and an i7 800 series chip will idle with total system power under 100w, so you don't need something huge unless you plan on overclocking like a madman.
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Krom
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http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/sh ... i=3641&p=8
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3658&p=13
In the first article that is ONLY the CPU that is loaded, the GTX 280 in use in that article is at idle the whole time.
In the second article, the i7 920 is overclocked to 3.33 GHz so it isn't a perfect comparison of the total system power, but you can get a rough guess of the eventual power draw of a SLI 275 system.
Even with the whole system at stock clocks it is still likely for a SLI 275 to be around 600 watts. So you would want a bigger PSU for SLI, but a single card isn't even going to reach 400 watts and leaving yourself a 300w buffer will keep the system running well for a long time.
Also, the 800 series i7 chips all have a on die PCIe controller with 16 channels, which means SLI on an 800 series splits the PCIe channels into two x8 connectors like old motherboards used to, so SLI does not scale as well on a socket 1156 system as it does on a socket 1366 system which has full x16 on both slots. Just reason #47 to not buy into SLI.
However because the PCIe controller is on die in the 800 series and so is the memory controller, the GPU plugged into it has very low latency to the system memory and CPU which the 900 series doesn't have.
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3658&p=13
In the first article that is ONLY the CPU that is loaded, the GTX 280 in use in that article is at idle the whole time.
In the second article, the i7 920 is overclocked to 3.33 GHz so it isn't a perfect comparison of the total system power, but you can get a rough guess of the eventual power draw of a SLI 275 system.
Even with the whole system at stock clocks it is still likely for a SLI 275 to be around 600 watts. So you would want a bigger PSU for SLI, but a single card isn't even going to reach 400 watts and leaving yourself a 300w buffer will keep the system running well for a long time.
Also, the 800 series i7 chips all have a on die PCIe controller with 16 channels, which means SLI on an 800 series splits the PCIe channels into two x8 connectors like old motherboards used to, so SLI does not scale as well on a socket 1156 system as it does on a socket 1366 system which has full x16 on both slots. Just reason #47 to not buy into SLI.
However because the PCIe controller is on die in the 800 series and so is the memory controller, the GPU plugged into it has very low latency to the system memory and CPU which the 900 series doesn't have.
Regarding Windows SKUs: do take the time to compare Ultimate with Professional and figure out if you actually need anything it gives you, considering the extra cost. There aren't really a lot of extra things in it (the four I can recall off the top of my head were BitLocker, booting from a VHD, multilingual user interfaces and DirectAccess support). If money's no object, though, don't let me stop you. 
There are quite a few potentially important things missing from the Home version, by comparison.
There are quite a few potentially important things missing from the Home version, by comparison.
oh jeez, you guys are giving me headaches left and right, up and down!
anyways, im not even fully certified in vista yet, so i guess i could save the $50 and get Professional instead of Ultimate? does Pro have the XP Mode ?
i may go ahead with the SLI, but i may not at the same time, if not, i may just bump it to the GTX 285 or even a 95
i have a 950 watt PSU in the wishlist of the second list i emailed you krom, last ? will these HD Audio chipsets allow me to use the X-Fi Ultra High Sound definition in BF2? if not, then i guess ill take the $50 from Ultimate vs. Pro and use it on that
anyways, im not even fully certified in vista yet, so i guess i could save the $50 and get Professional instead of Ultimate? does Pro have the XP Mode ?
i may go ahead with the SLI, but i may not at the same time, if not, i may just bump it to the GTX 285 or even a 95
i have a 950 watt PSU in the wishlist of the second list i emailed you krom, last ? will these HD Audio chipsets allow me to use the X-Fi Ultra High Sound definition in BF2? if not, then i guess ill take the $50 from Ultimate vs. Pro and use it on that
...you'll eventually end up skipping everything forever though. Nothing will ever get more compatible with XP... and the people who usually have to worry about it run legacy business applications, which more often than not work under virtualization (because they tend not to require things like hardware-accelerated graphics).
For games, not so much. A few old games don't run well on anything after XP (and in many cases even that!), but not many people still play them.
For games, not so much. A few old games don't run well on anything after XP (and in many cases even that!), but not many people still play them.
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BUBBALOU
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in windows 7 pro and ultimate the option is there for virtual xp machine if he needs it later in time.....that is all. I have been running it and it works quite well if you dedicate at least 1GB of RAM to th virtualized machine when it is running. The eception is if you do not have the cpu virtualization option enabled in the mothereboard bios settings*. .
I seem to have a better workout dodging your stupidity than attempting to grasp the weight of your intelligence.
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Krom
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Just got the latest wish list Ace, everything looks pretty good. That is a whopper of a motherboard you picked, drop the 3 way SLI support and you can save over $150 on a different board. All P55 boards perform the same because practically everything important aside from power delivery is already on the CPU. Although on the subject of power delivery; the board you picked is known for using one of the better sockets so if you do stay with that board proper power delivery for any overclock you aim for (or just excellent stability at stock clocks) shouldn't be a problem.
The lite-on burner you selected is out of stock, so if you are looking for an alternative I've used pioneer burners for the last couple years and have no complaints.
That is a whopper of a motherboard you picked, drop the 3 way SLI support and you can save over $150 on a different board. All P55 boards perform the same because practically everything important aside from power delivery is already on the CPU. Although on the subject of power delivery; the board you picked is known for using one of the better sockets so if you do stay with that board proper power delivery for any overclock you aim for (or just excellent stability at stock clocks) shouldn't be a problem.The lite-on burner you selected is out of stock, so if you are looking for an alternative I've used pioneer burners for the last couple years and have no complaints.
ok find me a good board that is EVGA, and ill check out the optical drives.
anything bad about SATA Optical Drives?
also side note: i cant get any of your tech links to work, they freeze up and stay there while waiting for some website
BF2 has poor Vista Support ( they are still working on it and its getting better) so im assuming that 7 support is flaky
anything bad about SATA Optical Drives?
also side note: i cant get any of your tech links to work, they freeze up and stay there while waiting for some website
Sirius wrote: For games, not so much. A few old games don't run well on anything after XP (and in many cases even that!), but not many people still play them.
BF2 has poor Vista Support ( they are still working on it and its getting better) so im assuming that 7 support is flaky
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Krom
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The only problem I've ever had with SATA DVD burners was I couldn't get a system to boot from one once Windows was installed on the hard drive while the controller was in AHCI mode.
I put it back into IDE compatibility mode and I was once again able to boot from a CD. So apparently when windows is on the hard drive, no matter what boot order you use it is impossible to boot from an AHCI optical drive.
As far as that motherboard, it is the only one specifically mentioned on Anandtech that doesn't have the cheap Foxconn made sockets so its really up to you if you want to stick with it or play the lottery with something else. Other boards even from EVGA have a 50/50 chance of using a Foxconn socket which could impact stability.
Its a big enough problem that DFI had been using Foxconn sockets as well but they recently discontinued them, other brands are likely to follow suit.
I put it back into IDE compatibility mode and I was once again able to boot from a CD. So apparently when windows is on the hard drive, no matter what boot order you use it is impossible to boot from an AHCI optical drive.
As far as that motherboard, it is the only one specifically mentioned on Anandtech that doesn't have the cheap Foxconn made sockets so its really up to you if you want to stick with it or play the lottery with something else. Other boards even from EVGA have a 50/50 chance of using a Foxconn socket which could impact stability.
Its a big enough problem that DFI had been using Foxconn sockets as well but they recently discontinued them, other brands are likely to follow suit.
Re:
Probably a good assumption. If it didn't work well on Vista, and especially if those reasons weren't performance-related, then it is unlikely to work well on Win7 either.AceCombat wrote:BF2 has poor Vista Support ( they are still working on it and its getting better) so im assuming that 7 support is flaky
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Krom
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On the Newegg build, you sure are stubborn on that SLI , but the system should work fine with those specs.
That is a pretty slick PSU and the modular cables should be nice, but even though it does claim to have just a single 12v rail at 70 amps you still want to split up and spread around the load so don't use as few cables as possible to power everything up, be generous.
Also I don't know if you use it or not, but SLI and dual-view in XP is impossible (only a single output on the master card will work) so if you plan on using multiple monitors and SLI you need to be using Vista or newer. The monitor limit in Vista/Windows 7 with SLI is two monitors and they have to be plugged into the same card (if you disable SLI you can use all 4 outputs at once in any OS though).
, but the system should work fine with those specs.That is a pretty slick PSU and the modular cables should be nice, but even though it does claim to have just a single 12v rail at 70 amps you still want to split up and spread around the load so don't use as few cables as possible to power everything up, be generous.
Also I don't know if you use it or not, but SLI and dual-view in XP is impossible (only a single output on the master card will work) so if you plan on using multiple monitors and SLI you need to be using Vista or newer. The monitor limit in Vista/Windows 7 with SLI is two monitors and they have to be plugged into the same card (if you disable SLI you can use all 4 outputs at once in any OS though).
Ditch SLI for a cheaper Physix card and enjoy SLI performance equal to or better than the two expensive cards. Get a 9800 GTX as the Physix processor;
http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_ge ... tx_us.html
Although overkill will increase your FPS pretty well the same as SLI and in some instances better. Plus it seems to help CPU performance in benchmarking as well.
So spend $300 + $120 for FPS goodness and splurge on something else you want with the money saved.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_ge ... tx_us.html
Although overkill will increase your FPS pretty well the same as SLI and in some instances better. Plus it seems to help CPU performance in benchmarking as well.
So spend $300 + $120 for FPS goodness and splurge on something else you want with the money saved.