DescentBB

I'm curious what all of you guys think. I'm thinking of this in terms of human rights, not necessarily quality of life from a wealth standpoint.

For further discussion: Do you think that society (and the advance thereof) can solve our human rights problems, some day in the future?

Most of the data I've seen suggest that, all things considered, we're currently living in the most peaceful period in human history. It may seem hard to believe, since bad news always sticks out the most, and there are always setbacks, but things are gradually getting better as a whole.

The frequency of human rights violations are probably going down. But the scope of human rights violations are getting larger.

It is a great question. I don't have a great answer.

It's hard to think of the Holocaust or world wide slave trading, for a couple of examples, can be going on and we could still cite anything from those eras as an improvement in the world over all compared to any period that came before them. Everything leading up to those two more recent examples of horrible anti-equality were full of wide scale oppressive examples too so if it is getting better in the world it is hard to measure.

So, if you are talking about the planet as a whole then maybe it has barely moved upward because there have been pockets of improved equality but usually only a subset living within a geographical region while at the same time there are other regions with people getting completely abused or the enlightened group living in improved conditions have rationalized abusing the crap out of their neighbors in the name of god, progress,security or because they think no one is looking and that what humans do.

I'd say we've had some shining moments and are sort of organizing our thoughts to steer things globally toward equality but it is extremely premature to start posting to the scoreboard.

I've got friends on facebook from Africa and the Middle East. They claim there are daily beheadings for people who won't forcefully convert in the ME, and public hangings throughout certain regions of Africa. I don't know because our media here seems pretty selective on what it reports or what is suppressed, so unless you specifically search for certain circumstances, you have no idea they even exist. As for us, and most other Anglo Saxons, we will improve barring some catastrophe. Then all bets are off because people tend to weird out at those times and panic.

It's the most amazing time in history to be alive. It's only going to get better. Human beings will progress and evolve and eventually leave the solar-system and maybe even the galaxy. Eventually, asking if "the world is becoming a better place" won't make sense because you will then have to ask "which world and why does it matter?"

I sort of agree with vision, but still hold to the 'ebb and flow' concept. We are currently in an upswing, but I don't preclude human nature and events from swinging that pendulum back downward. In other words, the longterm trend might be to gradually improve human rights, and at the current time, we see that going forward overall(not an absolute given for everyone, every place, but viewing the world as a whole), but all it takes is a calamity of large magnitude to negatively impact huge numbers of people. One can look at 9/11 and the events that followed to see that. Abuse of muslims by Westerners, and abuse of Westerners by Muslims all flowing from a single act of hatred by a handful of people. Ebb and Flow. I wish I could hold to a more absolutely rosy view espoused by vision and others, but cannot. On the other hand, I see no justification for the bleak assessment that many here seem to have.....

to address Snoopy's second question, therein lies one of my largest fears around this. Globalization is an unstoppable trend, given technology and economic necessities. Thus, the economic ballgame is being played on an ever-larger field. That being the case, it might be hard, given human nature again, to prevent the subjugation of large numbers of people for the sake of economic benefit, and I don't know if society either can or will prevent that.

Humanity has had other Golden Ages. Do I think this is a Golden Age.? Is it Safer? To a degree but it is also edgier. Never before have we had nut cases like North Korea's whack job leader having control of nukes and the ability to deliver them to our shore. With Iran closing in on nukes of their own, we now have a 2nd set of nut jobs soon to be able to threaten the world. Then we have biologicals being stock piled and if they are ever put in the wrong hands we could have a death count higher than the results of a nuclear war. In the end this could be the worst chapter in humanity's history...not the best.

I voted for "It's getting worse". The reason I think so is not because of those crazy leaders with nukes and world terrorism, world history is littered with examples of crazy despots and mass murderers, but instead, it'll be the dwindling planetary resources and our unchecked population growth. If we can't get ourselves out of this situation with another technological fix this time, we're in trouble. Then there is that pesky notion of climate change................

never before in the history of this planet have we had to live with the fear of a truly almost instantaneous global conflict(30 minutes), and not we have all those Pacled (star-trek reference) mentality dictators that think because they have 1-2 nuke they have power. this world is not safer, especially with the Jihadists Governments gaining access to them

I think that any person even from the near past, even from the XX century beginning, having appeared in our time, would tell that the majority of people now lives in comfortable paradise. In comparison with those times when there was no elementary medicine, electricity, communication, etc.
Another thing is that the woods on a planet are destroyed with a frightening speed and the ecological situation around the world worsens every year catastrophic rates, simply we don't want to recognize it. Besides, long ago it is already noticed that the history has cyclic model. The periods of blossoming and wellbeing are replaced by economic decline, epidemics and wars. By the way on the basis of historical events frequency of large wars is traced. Which occur time in hundred years. New generations which are familiar with horrors of war only according to movies grow. Naturally, it is easier to lift such society for another war. By calculations of analysts, the mankind is expected by the next large war approximately in 2050.

I read an interesting article not long ago that said our biggest threat is actually the population rate is decreasing. The population is getting older and the ratio of new young workers to the old retired is out of whack. In several countries they are actually offering money to couples to have children and they still won't. Of course, this is not a problem in China but is most everywhere else. Another indication of growing Chinese dominance.

flip wrote:I read an interesting article not long ago that said our biggest threat is actually the population rate is decreasing. The population is getting older and the ratio of new young workers to the old retired is out of whack. In several countries they are actually offering money to couples to have children and they still won't. Of course, this is not a problem in China but is most everywhere else. Another indication of growing Chinese dominance.

Yea I remember Lothar debunking the "overpopulation" theory a few years back.

The Chinese are patient, they have been rising to the top for centuries just as they planned it.

You're forgetting India and other third world nations that are still growing. But I guess over-population is self regulating. No food, no clean water, no people. Simple.

CUDA wrote:never before in the history of this planet have we had to live with the fear of a truly almost instantaneous global conflict(30 minutes), and not we have all those Pacled (star-trek reference) mentality dictators that think because they have 1-2 nuke they have power. this world is not safer, especially with the Jihadists Governments gaining access to them

Uh, there was that little Bay of Pigs incident and that whole Cold War thing a few years back. I still remember having to "duck and cover" in my grade schools (like that would have protected our butts anyway).

I voted for it being the same.

I just finished reading Crichton's "disclosure" and got to thinking about the types of abuse that occur in the modern day... In my opinion exemplified by the way that the pay gap is increasing, the way that credit mechanisms keep people stuck in debt, etc. In little ways, the rich and powerful are subjugating the rest of us similar to the way that paupers used to be.

Also, I feel like I hear a lot of optimism from Obama - belief in people making the country and world into a better place. I don't buy it... I think that the rich and powerful are going to abuse their power as long as the sun continues to rise...

snoopy wrote:I voted for it being the same.

I just finished reading Crichton's "disclosure" and got to thinking about the types of abuse that occur in the modern day... In my opinion exemplified by the way that the pay gap is increasing, the way that credit mechanisms keep people stuck in debt, etc. In little ways, the rich and powerful are subjugating the rest of us similar to the way that paupers used to be.

Also, I feel like I hear a lot of optimism from Obama - belief in people making the country and world into a better place. I don't buy it... I think that the rich and powerful are going to abuse their power as long as the sun continues to rise...

sort of the same reasons I said we were in an upswing of the ebb and flow.......

flip wrote:I read an interesting article not long ago that said our biggest threat is actually the population rate is decreasing. The population is getting older and the ratio of new young workers to the old retired is out of whack. In several countries they are actually offering money to couples to have children and they still won't. Of course, this is not a problem in China but is most everywhere else. Another indication of growing Chinese dominance.

No, China is actually going to be facing some pretty significant issues over the next decade as a huge chunk of its population ages. There's a lot of talk going around that they're going to rescind the widespread implementation of the single-child policy as a result.

No to what? Of course the principle applies to all, and China is realizing the pitfall of population control around the same time as everyone else, but I'm pretty sure China's 1.3 billion population will mitigate the harm much quicker than anyone else. What exactly are you disagreeing with?

You said that the issue of a large elderly population putting a strain on a country wasn't a problem for China, and I'm saying that it very much is. They might be a bit better percentage-wise right now, but when you're talking about 1.3 billion people, that advantage pretty much evaporates. The current numbers don't exactly paint a good picture.

Ok I see. Yes, definitely a problem for them but not nearly enough to hamper their rise. Knowing China, they will probably euthanize them and start forcing people to procreate just to create a balance. :p I think their 1.3 billion population is their saving grace. It will allow them to recover much more quickly. There is no work age limit in China.

Government and corporations are finding it way too easy to control our internet: monitoring our actions, putting restrictions on our ownership of the content we buy, the data we compile, and even our own computing power/internet time.

We need a completely free internet without restriction; for it is the last place people can turn to in order to let their voice, no matter how small or controversial, be heard.

Also, I'm waiting for Obama to bail me out of all my debt. He bailed the banks out, why not the students who actually study to make this nation run? A joke, but with a side of truth.

I vote for AP to be president! He could institute the High Speed Interstate Internet Act, which would bring taxpayer subsidized, fiber optic, free access for everyone in the country at gigabit speeds. He'd be the Eisenhower of today! Huzzah! Freedom and prosperity would run rampant with all that high speed access and no corporate telecoms guarding the roads and bridges like trolls and taking every last dime we have for little in return.

Think of all that glorious porn!

interesting breakdown......9 pure pessimists, 5 optimists....I'd love to see the correlation between the folks that self-identify as liberal, conservative or moderate and the optimism/pessimism about the world's direction.

callmeslick wrote:interesting breakdown......9 Realists, 5 delusional....I'd love to see the correlation between the folks that self-identify as liberal, conservative or moderate and the optimism/pessimism about the world's direction.

Fixed it for ya

CUDA wrote:

callmeslick wrote:interesting breakdown......9 Realists, 5 delusional....I'd love to see the correlation between the folks that self-identify as liberal, conservative or moderate and the optimism/pessimism about the world's direction.

Fixed it for ya

Not to get too biblical on all of you... but CUDA you know that the Biblical answer would be it's the same old same old... right?

not really fixed for anything except your personal opinion. Actually, although I stated that I was in the neutral camp(befitting my moderate nature, I suppose), both sides of the matter provided reasoning that was every bit as valid as the other, above. That you are willing and seemingly eager to dismiss the opinions(and that is what we are dealing with here) of those who disagree as 'delusional' says more about you than anything else. And, what that says is not flattering. Step back and look at your own inflexibilty in dealing with those that differ......

to return, although the numbers cannot be known from this poll, it would seem from those that did give insight that the 'conservative' self-identifiers are very moribund. I wonder, does this reflect the inexorable progress inherent in mankind resulting in an unease amongst conservatives, who are resistant to(I might suggest scared of) change?

Ummm…MS. Uber Liberal clearly stated she voted for “it’s getting worse”.

I have seen both the places I have lived in “change” and neither one for the better. I’m not “scared” of change, but then again I’m also not easily jaded, as many “progressives” seem to be.

I prefer change for the better over change for the sake of change or change for the worse any day. Prudence is the order of the day for me.

You know slick....

I do think that liberals tend to think the world is getting batter, while conservatives tend to think the world is getting worse.

I'm also starting to think that I don't fit in the "conservative" bucket very well. I definitely don't see myself as a liberal, but when it comes to political issues, I find myself disagreeing with people, say, at my church on political issues.

My theory: those of us that voted for the middle of the road would also be the most middle-of-the-road people on the liberal/conservative spectrum.

yup, Snoopy....agreed.

snoopy wrote:I'm curious what all of you guys think. I'm thinking of this in terms of human rights, not necessarily quality of life from a wealth standpoint.

For further discussion: Do you think that society (and the advance thereof) can solve our human rights problems, some day in the future?

Only 9 intelligent people voted.