reality check for TC and others

[callmeslick]

it isn't Obamacare to blame. This from a managed care trade publication:

http://www.ajmc.com/newsroom/aca-market ... d_10-10-16

until we get insurance companies and for-profit health insurance out of the picture, you're going to get hosed.

[Herculosis]

You're saying that ACA isn't the cause of high marketplace premiums, since employer-sponsored coverage is even higher, but in reality, it's ACA that's causing employer-sponsored premiums to be so high.

So yes, the blame is pretty heavily on ACA.

[callmeslick]

more like the insurers are USING it as a cover for returning to the trajectory in pricing seen pre-ACA. Bear in mind, my link was to an insurance company trade group publication.

[Vander]

Premiums are rising, but at a slower rate than was projected under ACA, which itself was a slower rate than what was projected without ACA.

[Tunnelcat]

So what if an employer sponsored plan is about the same price as an individual plan. Both of those plans are TOO EXPENSIVE and continuing to rise!

When I was in my insurance agent's office, he told me HE was being yelled at by both small businessmen and individuals for the obscenely high rates, even for Bronze Plans. Premiums have been increasing at a double digit percentage rate per year, whereas the Consumer Price Index is running at a MUCH LOWER 2% annual inflation rate. My personal premium has nearly tripled for 2017, in just ONE YEAR, because my policy was canceled when the insurer left the Oregon Market. Now I have to shop in the Oregon Marketplace, where the cheapest Bronze Plan is more than $600 PER MONTH. Oregon's premium rates are also way higher than many other states around the country because there's less competition here now. However, that by itself doesn't explain the huge increases.

Eliminating the private insurers and middlemen does NOT solve the problem of these continuous large increases in health care costs. Even Medicare Part A, B and D rates are rumored to be increasing by double digit rates for 2017. This is an unsustainable problem that no one in either party has proposed a viable solution to fix. Tell me how single payer is going to solve the problem when Medicare is even increasing at horrible rates?

I am NOT blaming Obamacare for the high costs. I'm only blaming Obamacare for the MANDATE, which is increasing my personal costs directly. I understand the mandate was supposed to lower costs for everyone. But now it is forcing me to pay more than $600 dollars a month for just health insurance, not even for health care. After figuring out what my IRS penalty will be for not having health insurance in 2017, I realized the penalty is far less than what it would cost to buy the insurance. I'm seriously considering paying the penalty next year, because the money I would save would pay for quite a bit of real healthcare.

[callmeslick]

the problem is for-profit medical insurance. Read that article and draw your own conclusions.

[Tunnelcat]

Even if we put in single payer tomorrow, how is the government going to keep a single payer system solvent in the face of continuing rising costs? Anything with the term "medical" or "drug" will continue to keep rising in price because of the demand for it. Boomers in particular really don't want to suffer or die as they age and it's THEY who will be demanding more and more medical treatment as the high cost of dying soaks up more and more of the profits from these insurers and the system. Eliminating insurance and sticking it solely on the government is STILL going to take a HUGE chunk out of the government and taxpayer coffers. Even Medicare is going up, for mostly the same reasons, link below. I don't have the numbers yet, but as I said above, it's rumored to be a large increase across the board. Want to know why? 2 years ago, these numbers were easily obtainable. But Republicans in the do nothing Congress have been stalling the legislative actions that are required to finalize the numbers in advance. I'm guessing this is happening because Republicans are trying to undermine both Medicare AND Obamacare.

The whole system is affected by rising costs and even cutting out the for profit part of it isn't going solve the problem. Costs are still rising. It's just a question of when the breaking point will occur for most employers and individuals. I'm guessing it's going to be very soon.

http://time.com/money/2793643/cutting-t ... life-care/

[callmeslick]

Even if we put in single payer tomorrow, how is the government going to keep a single payer system solvent in the face of continuing rising costs?

the nature of single payer drives costs to a rock bottom, because no one is bidding the price of services up. Much of what you are paying for is advertising, administrative overhead and a ton of dividends and salaries. I'm pretty confident in the assertion as the Medicare costs are not skyrocketing at anywhere near the rates for younger people, and the rest of the world manages to make single payer work efficiently.

Oh, and there IS a problem with the level of services some Americans DEMAND, yet remain somehow shocked that they have to pay for them.

[Tunnelcat]

Even if we put in single payer tomorrow, how is the government going to keep a single payer system solvent in the face of continuing rising costs?

the nature of single payer drives costs to a rock bottom, because no one is bidding the price of services up. Much of what you are paying for is advertising, administrative overhead and a ton of dividends and salaries. I'm pretty confident in the assertion as the Medicare costs are not skyrocketing at anywhere near the rates for younger people, and the rest of the world manages to make single payer work efficiently.

Well, we'll see when the Medicare rates come out in a couple of months. That will be an indicator.

Oh, and there IS a problem with the level of services some Americans DEMAND, yet remain somehow shocked that they have to pay for them.

Americans demand it because they don't want to suffer and die. Since our medical system is so advanced, there ARE treatments available, expensive, but available, and for a price. I'd say that's pretty normal to want that, wouldn't you? But in order to pay for it, either we ALL have to have a ton of cash to pay for it, which we clearly don't, or ration what we do have. Few Americans really have that much cash floating around, and even fewer want rationing. The dirty little secret is that few Americans realize that we are already rationing healthcare and we're doing it monetarily. The wealthy get far more than those who are poor. What's sick is that I'm not technically poor, but I'm not super wealthy either. I'm in an individual retiree's no man's land where I don't qualify for subsidies and just wealthy enough that even though I can pay for it, it takes an uncomfortably HUGE chunk out of my savings.

Even if you took insurance out of the picture, the rest of the system is still for profit. Now tell me how many of our hospitals, doctors, nurses and pharmacists are willing to take profit and pay cuts even if insurance went away? Either the system has to cut back somewhere, or the patients have to, because there just isn't enough money to go around.