DescentBB

So we now have 4 political parties:
1) Joe Biden Party
2) Democratic Party
3) Trump Party
4) Republican Party
Once you understand this, you'll understand how the next Presidential election is going to flow.

Brilliant analysis, woodchip!

Well the Dems need to find a candidate or the next Potus will be Trump.

Will there be strippers at these parties?

Only if Trump supplies them . Campaign slogan will be, "Chicken in every pot, a stripper for every man" Too misogynist?

You forgot the Kennedy Party, of one, and a few nutcase followers that worship him.

I think there are the delusional or dimwitted who think the goal is simply to win the election and that has to be done by picking either Trump or Biden. They don't have the intelligence or courage to face the grim prospects either of them winning would deliver. They react to the manipulation of their 'side' and don't really think outside of that little box.

Then there is the other part of the growing division in both parties that has a collection of various far right wing and far left wing nutbags and agents of chaos.

Then the remainder of the two 'parties' make up is largely the left overs of the 'old guard' trying to survive the current status hoping for a return to the turn of the last century when they were happier and relevant and the fringe didn't matter because they were fewer. But now the fringe have social media and apparently extreme mental illness and are like a flash mob of disruption.

then there is the group where the 'undecided and true third party have always been. Not big enough to damage the old guard. Now that might change though.
I guess the big question is how does the 'likely voter' ratio breakdown within those groups on each side.

So on each side there are the idiots, the useless and the forever hopeful.
Biden and Trump are just the horrible effect of the process being run in the shadows by rich, lazy, greedy, short sighted puppet masters for too long. Although the audience is in near full riot mode just before the curtain opens on what will hopefully be the last puppet performance.

I am hopeful yet I feel compelled to remind you all:

You only really own that which you can carry at full run faster than your pursuers.
You can go 3 minutes without air, 3 days without water and 3 weeks without food...so pack smart.
And when currency suddenly changes from gold to bullets...well, you get the picture.

Unfortunately, truer words have never been spoken.

I think it's wild that Biden is being compared to Trump.

Vander wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 6:33 pm I think it's wild that Biden is being compared to Trump.

I honestly believe the only significant difference between them, for practical assessment, is Trump is just as corrupt and self serving, etc but he is also clinically a sociopath.
Their 'politics' and 'morality' and 'professed principles' are just tools in their branding tool kit. Words on their resume.
Anyone who wants to pick from that tool kit to show one is superior over the other is just fooling themselves.

Neither candidate is perfect, but that hardly makes them the same. I'd rather vote for the party that at least makes some sort of effort to protect the environment and human rights rather than the one that is actively trying to destroy them.

Will Robinson wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 7:11 pm I honestly believe the only significant difference between them, for practical assessment, is Trump is just as corrupt and self serving, etc but he is also clinically a sociopath.
Their 'politics' and 'morality' and 'professed principles' are just tools in their branding tool kit. Words on their resume.
Anyone who wants to pick from that tool kit to show one is superior over the other is just fooling themselves.

One of them is legit trying to end the republic.

Vander wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 8:45 pm

Will Robinson wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 7:11 pm I honestly believe the only significant difference between them, for practical assessment, is Trump is just as corrupt and self serving, etc but he is also clinically a sociopath.
Their 'politics' and 'morality' and 'professed principles' are just tools in their branding tool kit. Words on their resume.
Anyone who wants to pick from that tool kit to show one is superior over the other is just fooling themselves.

One of them is legit trying to end the republic.

They both need the republic to keep feeding their bank accounts and egos as well as enjoy the protection being in charge gives them. And I’d bet both of them would say the same thing to that idea, that they are trying to save the republic. And they would claim validation by citing approval they get in polling of their party’s registered voters.
They are the problem, or more precisely, they are both a symptom of, and catalyst for, the problem. Their role description is synonymous

Hey will...

let us know when biden starts mirroring hitler.

Ferno wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 12:48 pm Hey will...

let us know when biden starts mirroring hitler.

Hey Ferno, believe it or not, in my mind, that isn't the only thing one can do to disqualify themselves from being worthy of the job.

If all Trump did to change was to magically never have cozied up to the alt right he wouldn't be any better, at all.
And Joe Biden has never done that as far as I know, and yet he isn't any better than Trump, at all. Both equally unqualified. Once you are unqualified it really is a waste of time to argue that you are unqualified in different ways than the other unqualified person. ergo the use of "practical" in my comment.

Like I said, if you want to fool yourself go at it. It isn't going to shock anyone to see you go at it again, some more.

Biden is unqualified for one reason. He's too damned old, and it shows whenever he opens his mouth to speak or when he walks. However, Trump is even MORE unqualified by virtue of his egomania, delusions of greatness, the love of attaining pure raw power and the lack of moral compass getting that power. Neither choice is palatable in 2024 IMO.

Tunnelcat wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 2:53 pm Biden is unqualified for one reason. He's too damned old, and it shows whenever he opens his mouth to speak or when he walks. However, Trump is even MORE unqualified by virtue of his egomania, delusions of greatness, the love of attaining pure raw power and the lack of moral compass getting that power. Neither choice is palatable in 2024 IMO.

Well Trump will win as even the Dem voter du jour (blacks) are polling more for Trump in certain battle ground states. Voters compare how well off they were when Trump was in office to how how well they are now. So while Biden keeps saying how well off we are, the voters know better.

Will Robinson wrote:They both need the republic to keep feeding their bank accounts and egos as well as enjoy the protection being in charge gives them. And I’d bet both of them would say the same thing to that idea, that they are trying to save the republic. And they would claim validation by citing approval they get in polling of their party’s registered voters.
They are the problem, or more precisely, they are both a symptom of, and catalyst for, the problem. Their role description is synonymous

If you don't like either, that's fine. If you find that neither meet your qualifications for President for the same or similar reasons, that's also fine. I'd generally agree that anyone that wants to be President shouldn't be President. I mean, how full of yourself do you have to be to think you'd be best at that job?

But I don't agree that a bland centrist politician who generally believes in this country's institutions and appears to want the best for everyone is comparable to a fascist entertainer who has explicitly stated he wants to break the government and bring harm to its citizens.

People were well off until the pandemic, not because of Trump's policies. Oh, the wealthy got much wealthier under Trump with his little tax cuts, but the middle class got nothing. Then Trump heaped misery upon everyone in this country when he royally screwed up the government's response to said pandemic, eventually leading to the predicted economic mess that Biden is STILL dealing with today. Do I need to do your interwebs search for you Mr. Selective Memory?

https://www.vox.com/2020/6/8/21242003/t ... s-response

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump ... emic-team/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... rk-winter/

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... t-n1286211

Vander wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 7:41 pm...
But I don't agree that a bland centrist politician who generally believes in this country's institutions and appears to want the best for everyone ...

Really? That's the way you see Biden? A benevolent ambassador of hope and generosity? A Jimmy Carter?!?

Try this: He believes he knows how to milk those institutions for his family's enrichment and wants the best for *them*.

He has 50 year history for you to look at. Add up his paychecks over that time then add up the wealth and income of the Biden family. Other than marketing access to a Senator/Vice President/Prsident name any job skill that group has?!?
His first job was a county councilman at age 26. His next job was a state senator at age 30.
He and Trump are much more the same than you are willing to see.

I find it hard to believe you have challenged yourself to offer a genuine assessment for the comparison. It's like you allow your self to only really look hard at the bad guy thus the other guy needed to be a 'good' guy in your calculations.

At this point, since the 2 major parties are serving us up rotten meat in 2024, our only choice is to pick which plate has the less rotten meat. It's not a choice and it's not palatable at all. I've talked to the local Dem Party leader in my neighborhood and told him the party needs to find another candidate, fast. I think he agrees, but his hands are tied by the main party's machinery, which is laser focused on trying to re-elect a very unpopular man who in all likihood will lose to an unstable autocrat. It's almost a death wish since most Americans have no idea of the coming hell if Trump wins office again. Biden is at least an old line Dem, as unpopular as that is. I'll take that over a criminal psychopath with delusions of president for life who wants his army of followers to do his bidding.

Will Robinson wrote:Really? That's the way you see Biden? A benevolent ambassador of hope and generosity? A Jimmy Carter?!?

Try this: He believes he knows how to milk those institutions for his family's enrichment and wants the best for *them*.

He has 50 year history for you to look at. Add up his paychecks over that time then add up the wealth and income of the Biden family. Other than marketing access to a Senator/Vice President/Prsident name any job skill that group has?!?
His first job was a county councilman at age 26. His next job was a state senator at age 30.
He and Trump are much more the same than you are willing to see.

I find it hard to believe you have challenged yourself to offer a genuine assessment for the comparison. It's like you allow your self to only really look hard at the bad guy thus the other guy needed to be a 'good' guy in your calculations.

There's Gambling at Ricks? I'm shocked! SHOCKED!

I never said Biden was some paragon of virtue. He's a bog standard career politician in a corrupt system that effectively legalizes bribery. I have no great love for "the Senator from MBNA," I didn't vote for him in the primary, and he likely wouldn't have made my top 5. I will say, however, that he's been better in many ways than I thought he would be. And yes, I do think he's a relatively decent man.

But yeah, his corruption is penny ante compared to Trump. Different leagues.

Tunnelcat wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 11:01 am At this point, since the 2 major parties are serving us up rotten meat in 2024, our only choice is to pick which plate has the less rotten meat. It's not a choice and it's not palatable at all. I've talked to the local Dem Party leader in my neighborhood and told him the party needs to find another candidate, fast. I think he agrees, but his hands are tied by the main party's machinery, which is laser focused on trying to re-elect a very unpopular man who in all likihood will lose to an unstable autocrat. It's almost a death wish since most Americans have no idea of the coming hell if Trump wins office again. Biden is at least an old line Dem, as unpopular as that is. I'll take that over a criminal psychopath with delusions of president for life who wants his army of followers to do his bidding.

I think you are mixing the criminals up. There is a reason why they are called the Biden Crime Family.

woodchip wrote:There is a reason why they are called the Biden Crime Family.

Because conservative media isn't creative?

Given that their clientele has an average IQ of no more than 70, they don't really need to be.

Vander wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 11:48 am...
But yeah, his corruption is penny ante compared to Trump. Different leagues.

Bidens corruption is far from penny ante. It is a part of the cancer that destroys the system. It is also a cancer that spurs the members of his party and that parties protectors in media to create a perception that it is just 'penny ante' and an unfortunate 'side effect of the system'. It is the system dying and only the top of the wealth pool can survive the slow burn of this 'mere side effect' of the 'system'.

Trump was so crazy that his own team had to shut down most of his attempts to cash in so really he so far hasn't figured out how to play the game like Biden. Biden is like Tom Brady and Trump is like a local high school quarterback. He will do a 'better job' if he gets back in there though. And I do think if he has his way the next revolution will come sooner than later, but either of them are really bad. The specter of Trump is no justification to call Biden's role small and acccept anyone but Trump as qualified let alone 'good'.

In todays terms, accepting Biden 'because otherwise Trump' is like asking the Israelis to accept yet another of many a cease fire and let the enemy reload and rebuild, again, and again, until they finally get it right and drive you into the sea. Or like asking us to accept Mexicos level of corruption because otherwise Argentina. I choose neither and you should too.

Vander wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 5:03 pm

woodchip wrote:There is a reason why they are called the Biden Crime Family.

Because conservative media isn't creative?

Because liberal news reporting is non existent?

Vander wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 5:03 pm Because conservative media isn't creative?

How can you say that? Conservative media is very creative because the overwhelming majority of the stuff they vomit out is made up bull★■◆● designed to drum up outrage.

Will Robinson wrote:The specter of Trump is no justification to call Biden's role small and acccept anyone but Trump as qualified let alone 'good'.

Sure it is. I'd take corruption and 'you can vote the bums out' over corruption and 'you can't vote the bums out anymore' any day.

To be honest, I want this current incarnation of the GOP as far from power as possible, and will overlook quite a lot in service of that goal. I can't fully separate the "I don't want their policies" with the "they no longer believe in democracy" in order to quantify how much I'm willing to overlook. I obviously haven't reached that point yet. You're free to continue trying to convince me, but I'm sure it will only be a quixotic endeavor. I mean, I also believe gerrymandering is bad, but I think blue states should gerrymander the ★■◆● out of their states because it's the right thing to do under the circumstances.

As for why I consider Biden better than I expected, it's because he's rhetorically confronted the path we've been on since Reagan, and has actually followed through with investment and policy to a greater extent that I thought possible. I think some of this is because Republicans for the most part rebuffed his attempts to work with them, they gave him less chance to trade things away, but He appears to have learned some lessons from Obama's failures.

Krom wrote: How can you say that? Conservative media is very creative because the overwhelming majority of the stuff they vomit out is made up bull★■◆● designed to drum up outrage.

It's like repetitive Hollywood schlock. Boring reheated garbage.

Krom wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 3:59 pm

Vander wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 5:03 pm Because conservative media isn't creative?

How can you say that? Conservative media is very creative because the overwhelming majority of the stuff they vomit out is made up bull★■◆● designed to drum up outrage.

They don't like the truth, even when it comes from a Republican.

Vander wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:58 pmAs for why I consider Biden better than I expected, it's because he's rhetorically confronted the path we've been on since Reagan, and has actually followed through with investment and policy to a greater extent that I thought possible.

I would like to echo this sentiment. I'm actually surprised this administration has done such a good job. I know things are good because my news feeds are really boring these days, and with less to read I've had to find other things to do with my time. Plus, Fox News is still just talking about Hunter Biden because they've got nothing else. I hated having to vote for Biden in the last election, but now I'm looking forward to it.

Looking forward to voting for the "Zionist pigs" biggest supporter AKA Genocide Joe?

Right now, I'm not looking forward to voting for either of the current presumptive candidates. I'm at the point where it's hold my nose and vote for democracy's survival, because the alternative is a nightmare scenario.

So the way the democrats get elected is having republicans to scare up votes…flip that coin and the republicans scare their base into creating a need to keep them around too…and the status quo goes unbroken…again. And that’s the best we can do to improve the republic?!?

Please don’t offer any answers that are built on the premise of your side (read:either side) winning so big the other side evaporates. You are telling them you’ll continue to play by their corrupt rules as long as the ‘other side’ is out there.

Tunnelcat wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 9:13 pm Right now, I'm not looking forward to voting for either of the current presumptive candidates. I'm at the point where it's hold my nose and vote for democracy's survival, because the alternative is a nightmare scenario.

And just what is that "Nightmare" scenario? Was it a nightmare when Trump was in office? Or is the nightmare happening now?

A "Republican" coup with the backing of the military. In violation of the Constitution of the United States and insult to every freedom loving American who values democracy. Americans will then be ruled by Right Wing diktat, a wet dream they've had ever since Reagan. I can tell you this, it won't be a cake walk either, so ★■◆● you ultra right wing conservatives.

https://news.yahoo.com/retired-general- ... 05692.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... -military/

And this meshes perfectly with Project 2025, which I started in another thread.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-e ... rcna125638

Tunnelcat wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 4:44 pm A "Republican" coup with the backing of the military. In violation of the Constitution of the United States and insult to every freedom loving American who values democracy. Americans will then be ruled by Right Wing diktat, a wet dream they've had ever since Reagan. I can tell you this, it won't be a cake walk either, so ★■◆● you ultra right wing conservatives.

https://news.yahoo.com/retired-general- ... 05692.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... -military/

And this meshes perfectly with Project 2025, which I started in another thread.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-e ... rcna125638

Aren't you just the perfectly brainwashed liberal.

Spidey wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 4:05 pm Looking forward to voting for the "Zionist pigs" biggest supporter AKA Genocide Joe?

What even is this comment? Every US administration is pro-Israel. Every one. You know what AIPAC is, right?

And you know what the ADL is, right?

vision wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:27 am

Spidey wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 4:05 pm Looking forward to voting for the "Zionist pigs" biggest supporter AKA Genocide Joe?

What even is this comment? Every US administration is pro-Israel. Every one. You know what AIPAC is, right?

Well, I figured you would at least have to hold your nose while voting for any pro-Israel admin. after reading the things you have posted.