DescentBB

Ok, I'm very nervous of this company, however there is a box staring at me from Future Shop which will save me about $200 and is pretty close to what I was looking at. I'm not a real hardware guru, so I'd like to know what I should look at to be sure the thing isn't made to look pretty when really it's a few flagship boards and a pile of crap. It has a 3.0 pentium 4 with 1mb cache, radeon x300, and a 7200rpm SATA hard drive, 1gb ram. That's all I remember, but they are the parts that caught my eye.

They didn't mind me snooping around in device manager, so what should I look for that's especially good or bad?

edit: it also comes with XP home. I've been running winME on my machine (took me 6 months to work the kinks out of it but it's pretty solid now acutally) for years now and my exposure to XP amounts to almost nothing. Is it really worth forking out for Pro, what are the differences (that matter)? Can't I just dig through config files and pretty much shape it up?

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Ok, I'm very nervous of this company
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As you should be. I would only accept a HP like that if the price was low enough that I knew could strip it for the one or two good parts that it contains and build a better system out of it.

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I'm not a real hardware guru, so I'd like to know what I should look at to be sure the thing isn't made to look pretty when really it's a few flagship boards and a pile of crap
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Couldn't have discribed that computer better myself, flagship CPU, rest is a pile of crap, that is a very common theme with dell, gateway, compaq, hp, etc... You don't have to tell me whats in it, I just know how those outfits operate and I gaurentee you it is a pile of crap.

The one good part it has is the CPU, the hard drive is iffy, 7200 RPM SATA drive can mean almost anything. 1 GB of memory is good on quantity, but I doubt it has any quality compared to what people around here have. The video card sounds impressive to your average user...but they all do don't they? To anyone who knows video cards, the x300 isn't even interesting, if I had one it would be in the computer that doesnt have a monitor.

Windows XP is far superior to Windows ME in a number of ways, It is not worth forking it out for Pro if you don't know the differences between Home and Pro.

In that HP you have yourself a computer that will play back any video or music format you can think of, including DVDs, and it will surf the web nicely. But if you even so much as wave a game CD infront of its monitor it will probably crash.

The X300 isn't just uninteresting, it flat out blows. It's in the same leage as the integrated Intel Extreme 2 graphics, which means that you'd at least have to drop $200 on a decent videocard. $200 pluss all the iffy and low end parts that are sure to be in it, and I wouldn't consider that for anything more then web browsing and office applications.

Well be aware I'm upgrading from a Vaio which sports a duron 800 and a radeon 7000

My main option I'm looking at I have a few more details on, it would be built by a smaller shop that my dad knows the people in. It's an athalon 64 rig, I have the full specs written down somewhere. The card in that one is a 9800... I has assumed that older = lesser but I really don't know.

I bought a HP pavillion za5320 and I'm happy with it. But I wouldn't buy a HP desktop.

Krom on your note about other PC mfg's it is true to a point.

Gateways do not use proprietary PSU's like DELL and the other companies. yes stay away from the 3200 micro ATX series (1 available pci)(everything is intergrated) unless you are on a real budget. 5200 ATX series (2-3 available pci), they use a Micro ATX board on almost every model except the gaming series, limited open architecture, 7200 BTX series (4-5 available pci) all brand name parts panasonic/lite-on/kingston/ati/wd/hitachi fully upgradable swap out mobo psu...blah blah blah

Here is a general rule I give to anyone...on any store or online bought computer, if they do not offer an option to upgrade to Windows XP Professional ... stay far away and build it yourself

Gateways in the BESTBUY stores are rebadged E-Machines

Compaq/HP = Evil

Krom wrote: In that HP you have yourself a computer that will play back any video or music format you can think of, including DVDs, and it will surf the web nicely. But if you even so much as wave a game CD infront of its monitor it will probably crash.

NICE!

Some Gateways use power supplies with a proprietary form factor, in the way that they mount in the case. In working on them, I've found it's been much cheaper to move everything into a new case with a standard ATX PSU.

My 2¢: I've been looking into this very thoroughly. I think Mac is the way to go. Now I know no one here thinks this, but I just thought like saying it. Really Micro$oft kinda sux.

Sure, proprietary hardware, twice the price, and incompatible with 99% of games brought to market! Great upgrade path for any gamer!

/runs OS X on PearPC, because he can

Phoenix Red wrote:The card in that one is a 9800... I has assumed that older = lesser but I really don't know.

Happily, you're wrong. Any single one of the 9800s, probably even the lame ass 9800 SE, will kick the living crap out of a X300. The X300 is "budget entry level", meaning it's not really ment for gaming. It qualifies as a graphics card, but that's about it. Had some trouble finding benchmarks that included both cards except for this one for Halflife 2.

At this point the Athlon 64 is rocking pretty hard in games. Try and get us a complete list of what's in the A64 machine. The more details(brands, modelnumbers) the better.

Kd527 wrote:My 2¢: I've been looking into this very thoroughly. I think Mac is the way to go. Now I know no one here thinks this, but I just thought like saying it. Really Micro$oft kinda sux.

Buy what you're happy with, but good luck finding games that will run on a Mac.

Kd527 wrote:My 2¢: I've been looking into this very thoroughly. I think Mac is the way to go. Now I know no one here thinks this, but I just thought like saying it. Really Micro$oft kinda sux.

DCrazy wrote:Sure, proprietary hardware, twice the price, and incompatible with 99% of games brought to market! Great upgrade path for any gamer!

ROFL well said.

Lots more to say here, but I won't. You, KD, are an idiot who needs to join THIS forum and LEAVE here. GO way. Shoo

Quit the Mac-bashing, people. I don't care if you were bitten by neighbor's Mac when you were walking by, the blind flaming needs to stop.

I gamed just fine on my Mac. I can't play much of anything on it now, but that's more the fault of my 8-year-old computer than "no games are on the Mac".


In any case, back to the topic at hand, I had a Compaq laptop previously. Decent "value" type notebook, but I wasn't thrilled with the support. You know, the usual outsourced tech support, with people who unfortunately seem to have been told to read out of the tech manual and give form responses back, even if you've said you'd already tried that. (Sometimes I wonder if the next step is a fully-automated tech support system where a computer gives you these emails back.) If you persisted enough, you'd get something new to try, but it took work.

If you don't anticipate ever needing to call support for anything, it's all right. But if so, don't expect much assistance without work on your end.

I've been happy with the eMachines desktop we got to replace the really really old Windows box my wife used to have. But now the only things that are still original in that are the case, motherboard, CPU, and PSU. (Video card was upgraded, hard drive was upgraded, memory was completely replaced and upgraded. It did decently before, but now it performs much better. It's still no screamer, but it's a good midrange performer now.)

And the X300 (I believe) is basically a 9200-class PCI-E card. X600 is 9600-class, X800 is 9800-class, etc. A 9800 would beat the living crap out of an X300. I should know, we originally upgraded the integrated S3 video on that eMachines to a 9200. It did well like that, but when we upgraded to a 9800 Pro, the performance really jumped. A high-end 9600-class is about as low as I'd go. 9800-class is preferable.

The x800 is about twice as fast as the 9800, they are far from the same class. The x800 has far more memory bandwidth, a 16 pipeline core (twice as many), higher clock speeds, you name it.

One definate advantage the 9800 has over the x800 tho; you don't have to make house sized payments on it to afford one and they are widely available.

And Mac-bashing aside, getting a Mac would be a Big Mistakeâ?¢ if you are interested in games. If you were thinking of that route I would tell you to drop getting a computer entirely and spend the money on a console instead.

Krom wrote:The x800 is about twice as fast as the 9800, they are far from the same class.

Well, by "class" I meant the general "level" within ATI's lineup. I do see the X800 as in the same "family" (better word for it?) as the 9800. Of course it's a new design, but it's the flagship PCI-E offering, as the 9800 is the flagship AGP offering. I didn't think the X800 was insanely far ahead of the 9800 XT, but I haven't checked out the info and benches enough to know for sure.

And Mac-bashing aside, getting a Mac would be a Big Mistakeâ?¢ if you are interested in games. If you were thinking of that route I would tell you to drop getting a computer entirely and spend the money on a console instead.

Depends on which games. Seriously, Macs aren't all as gimped as they're made out to be, but it's like using any different operating system or processor type, not everything is available everywhere. (Use Linux and you'll have the same problems. Ideally we'll start seeing more support for *nix-based systems, though as long as Macs are PPC-based instead of x86-based, there'd still be work necessary to port to the Mac.) If you are just interested in those games that do happen to be available, then you're fine (unless you have my iMac that's Rage Pro isn't supported for 3D acceleration in OS X, hehe). But of course the thread's about this HP he's looking at, and not necessarily what other completely-different systems he should get instead. People just like to get sidetracked when someone says "Mac" or "Apple".

The x600 basicly is 9600 core on a PCIe board, but the x800 is nothing like the 9800. Alos, the 9800 is not the flagship AGP part, the x800 series are also available for AGP and are roughly twice as fast as the 9800s. It's hard to find benchmarks comparing the x800 to the 9800 anymore, but this one from the x800's launch gives you a pretty good idea. Of course the drivers for the x800s have improved and the x850s are out now too. In this benchmark you can see that the 9800s are more in the mainstream arena with the 6600GTs. Still a solid card, and will definetly ★■◆● a x300 up.

Phoenix, ignore what all these haters say.

i own a HP and my Father owns a HP. neither one have given us a single major problem. a few of those "little" problems that just about everyone has every now and then.

they DO NOT use proprietary parts. my 762n had a Antec 350W PSU that was ISO9000 specs, i rebuilt my machine with new parts except for 3 things: MOBO, DVD-ROM CD-RW.

it runs just as fast as any generic system of the same equipment.

HP builds two things decently: Printers and...uh...

Testiculese wrote:HP builds two things decently: Printers and...uh...

At least they can do printers. From my own experience, Epson can't seem to make an inkjet without a 45-second session of moving the cartridges back and forth for absolutely no reason.

If you're considering an HP, then you should expand your searching to include Comcrap - err - Compaq - as well! Not only do Compaq make crappy PCs (just like HP), but they also break down a lot and have diabolical technical support! (Just like HP).

Seriously, do NOT get an HP. They are crap.

I think they make some semi-decent server boxes, but do you have 100K to spend on a computer with a 16MB PCI graphics card and 12GB of RAM?

Honestly, there are THOUSANDS of "white box" vendors out there - more than half of them capable of building a far superior box than an HP machine, (to your specification) at only a VERY slight premium.

man all you guys are nothing but haters.


i guess HP likes me. i have yet to have a critical failure to occur with my HP, same with my fathers HP

AceCombat wrote:i have yet to have a critical failure to occur with my HP

AceCombat wrote:i rebuilt my machine with new parts except for 3 things: MOBO, DVD-ROM CD-RW.

Might have somethin to do with it eh?

I own an HP from 2 years ago, I"m much more impressed with my Vaio, but if I did it again, I'd build my own. I'd look at the price options. If you don't know what to do, I'm sure a friend or us would be glad to help you. If building your own is the same or less, go with it. If you really want to save $$ and it's >$100 cheaper, then it might be worth it.

As someone thats actually worked on several HP computers in the past, let me assure you that they are utter trash on the inside. They use the cheapest parts possible (even worse than Dell). Their Pavillon towers are so crammed together on the inside, its disgraceful. You wouldn't believe how many times I've cut my hands working on them. You have to tear apart half the case just to change out a hard drive or to get to the processor and RAM! Theres practically no airflow at all over the processor, so its no small wonder why they're more crash-happy than any other pre-built out there.

As for you Ace, I seem to recall Krom informing me that out of the entire crowd at a certain LAN party, you had to pop open your case to remove your processor for something. Stability indeed.

Just to keep things on topic, you might want to take the part lists that the manufacturers put up as specs and see how much it would cost a local shop to build a similar machine. The best part of this is that you can even customize it further, with what style of case you want, if you want a window, more RAM, etc.

I'm going to reinforce Plebeian's mention of staying on topic guys, before this thread gets locked.

MD-2389 wrote: As for you Ace, I seem to recall Krom informing me that out of the entire crowd at a certain LAN party, you had to pop open your case to remove your processor for something. Stability indeed.

and i explained what happend aswell. since you seem to have forgotten, dust found its way into my CPU Socket and AGP Slot during the flight upto chicago. after i removed it, it worked just find.

Vindicator wrote:

AceCombat wrote:i have yet to have a critical failure to occur with my HP

AceCombat wrote:i rebuilt my machine with new parts except for 3 things: MOBO, DVD-ROM CD-RW.

Might have somethin to do with it eh?

vindy....use some comon sense......I UPGRADED THE PARTS!!

i still keep the factory parts in a large ESD Protected bag. they are good parts. they never gave me a problem while they were installed and the new parts have yet to give me a problem.

Ace, your logic continues to astound me.

MD-2389 wrote:Their Pavillon towers are so crammed together on the inside, its disgraceful. You wouldn't believe how many times I've cut my hands working on them. You have to tear apart half the case just to change out a hard drive or to get to the processor and RAM!

Actually, some of their cases are sheer works of art. I have a XE783 here (two of em actually) that simply splits in half once the outer case is removed. Do I like working inside it? Not necessarily, but I appreciate the design of it and how they managed to cram a fully functional computer into such a small space (it wouldnt be that hard to put in better parts and have an ubersmall LAN box, even).