What is packet hacking??

LEON · Post by **LEON** » Wed May 11, 2005 3:48 am

Can somebody please explain what that is and how that is an advantage.

I'm banned from a server for this reason, so i just wanna know what it is.

Thanks in advance

Peace

[NuB2]Leon

BUBBALOU · Post by **BUBBALOU** » Wed May 11, 2005 5:10 am

It' an excuse for your connection being worse than 2 cans and a string.

most people who have wireless connections fall into this catagory. not that they know nor do they want to admit it. they dont see it on their end... AKA Splashboy.

In the wireless case, Descent 1/2 it would be very noticable because of the EXTREME packet BURSTING that everyone would see. but in D3 it's not

Maybe the server thinks that you are being devious about your connection settings, IE:when your ping is below 100ms but nothing hits you and you dont skip or burst. which might have been just an error on your part when you changed over to broadband your settings are still locked on dialup.

In any case, you really need to download Dr TCP and perform the test from this tweaktest . then use the reccomendations provided by the results page, to tweek your network settings until it looks like the one below. You will get the most out of your connection.

-------------------------------------------------------
my test (copy url at bottom of page unless you want us to see all your isp info)
my speed vs advertised speed 4000/400

Also please ignore the troll below (Mr NoIWillNotLANandBurstMyEgo)

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Wed May 11, 2005 5:14 am

The person who accused you probably doesn't know any more about the phrase than you do.

It's a catch-phrase, coined by whiners, in my experience.

What they mean is that you're somehow using your awesome digital wizardry to alter packets (the pieces of information being sent to and from your game/computer describing what's going on) to your advantage.

(who's that whining across my bridge?!)

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Wed May 11, 2005 4:06 pm

I got accused by that a couple days ago... I had an unusually bad connect to a particular server, so I was lagging and had a little loss. One guy kept shooting mortars in my general direction but they never hit me (mostly because he was taking bad shots) so he decided I must have been doing some sort of internet wizardry to prevent mortars from hitting me.

Usually, "packet hacking" means one of these things:

- your connection or connection settings are messed up and you're flying a phoenix, so you're very hard to hit

- you're actually doing something clever like making your computer drop "damage" packets somehow

- the person accusing you is a whiner who doesn't know how to play with lag

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Wed May 11, 2005 5:54 pm

Someone correct me on this if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain that the whole idea of a "damage packet" in D3 is a technically-wet-behind-the-ears, whiner's myth. Having various areas of gameplay delegated to different types of packets would seem like very poor design, to me. I would think that a D3 "packet" is more likely a compilation of all of the various types of multiplayer information. That's just my theory, but I do know a thing or two about che... er, programming/design.

TheCops · Post by **TheCops** » Wed May 11, 2005 7:02 pm

Sergeant Thorne wrote: Having various areas of gameplay delegated to different types of packets would seem like very poor design, to me. I would think that a D3 "packet" is more likely a compilation of all of the various types of multiplayer information. That's just my theory, but I do know a thing or two about che... er, programming/design.

Since Iâ??m the local network/programmer guru I will enlighten you to a few things about Descent 3 netcode.

All the packets are divided between the various weapons, positions, in game chat, and audio taunt â??triggersâ?

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Wed May 11, 2005 9:21 pm

Cops, you got any of them ant farms fer sale?

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Wed May 11, 2005 10:45 pm

So, long story short LEON, the guy running that server is a n00b and knows little to nothing about on-line gaming.

Lagg, bursting, skipping and packet loss have always been a part of Descent as much as the fusion and plasma cannons.

kurupt · Post by **kurupt** » Wed May 11, 2005 11:53 pm

i used to get called a packet hacker every time i pocket dodged. tis the nature of online gaming.

LEON · Post by **LEON** » Thu May 12, 2005 4:52 am

I'm not on wireless, my setting are for broadband, I don't run stuff (downloads, etc) behind D3. Downloads makes my ping jump up 200ms to 1000ms, makes it unplayable for me, so I don't know how that is an advantage.

I DL'ed DRTCP and tweaked my settings, but I didn't notice any diffrense in game, though. I was hopeful that I could kill people even faster.

When someone is hard to kill, I try harder, the harder I try the better I get. I think that is a good solution. The day I start to whine, I will stop developing.

Take care all

[NuB2]Leon

BUBBALOU · Post by **BUBBALOU** » Thu May 12, 2005 5:28 am

you will definately notice a difference in your overall online experience and your downloads an uploads will be faster. Everyother game which uses a permissible client server model(except d3) you should have a marked improvement.

If the server that has these so called issues they should post a Demo here or switch their server over to D3 Permissible C/S model and STFU.

I have played you many times LEON and you are a very easy Target

, never had any issues with you. Yeah occasionally you skipped but that was attributed to the server running a measy 6-7pps (56k server BAH)

Keeper

Sergeant Thorne wrote:...but I do know a thing or two about che... er, programming/design.

Q: was this before or after you lost to a sheep?

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Thu May 12, 2005 10:41 am

BUBBALOU wrote:Q: was this before or after you lost to a sheep?

That was no ordinary sheep!!

Zero! · Post by **Zero!** » Thu May 12, 2005 4:48 pm

LEON wrote:Downloads makes my ping jump up 200ms to 1000ms, makes it unplayable for me, so I don't know how that is an advantage.

took the words right out of my mouth.

Hattrick · Post by **Hattrick** » Thu May 12, 2005 6:20 pm

Zero! wrote:
LEON wrote:Downloads makes my ping jump up 200ms to 1000ms, makes it unplayable for me, so I don't know how that is an advantage.
took the words right out of my mouth.

Skippy tanks are fun!

Spaceboy · Post by **Spaceboy** » Thu May 12, 2005 9:14 pm

skippy tanks are scary.

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Thu May 19, 2005 6:48 pm

^^^^ Is what III says i do

Birdseye · Post by **Birdseye** » Thu May 19, 2005 10:36 pm

packet hacking is what i do to win

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Thu May 19, 2005 10:48 pm

yea, but you're old skool .. you're allowed.

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Sun May 22, 2005 10:54 am

Lothar wrote:I got accused by that a couple days ago... I had an unusually bad connect to a particular server, so I was lagging and had a little loss. One guy kept shooting mortars in my general direction but they never hit me (mostly because he was taking bad shots) so he decided I must have been doing some sort of internet wizardry to prevent mortars from hitting me.

Usually, "packet hacking" means one of these things:

- your connection or connection settings are messed up and you're flying a phoenix, so you're very hard to hit

- you're actually doing something clever like making your computer drop "damage" packets somehow

- the person accusing you is a whiner who doesn't know how to play with lag

How do I play with lag? Is this a secret thing?

Bettina

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Mon May 23, 2005 12:32 pm

bet51987 wrote:
Lothar wrote:- the person accusing you is a whiner who doesn't know how to play with lag
How do I play with lag? Is this a secret thing?

LOL! Are you serious?

When it's laggy, you lead your targets by a few more shiplengths, and you dodge stuff when it looks like it's nowhere close to you. It's an acquired skill -- most of us D1/D2 players are pretty good at aiming through lag, but not so good at dodging through lag.

A lot of people just think "gee, my opponent has a crappy ping, therefore, they should be an easy target." But as long as that opponent knows good tactics to use with a bad ping, they're going to still be tough to kill.

Nosferatu · Post by **Nosferatu** » Mon May 23, 2005 5:40 pm

I appologise for putting you in the ban list.

You have been taken out now.

I had put Leon in there and completely forgot about the entry.

I was enraged one day when Leon had an escpecially bad net connect. I hit him in the face during the course of two stadium games with no less they 20 megas (and yes I saw the explosion halo in each case). He bounced off every single one. Needless to say I was a little miffed. But since then I found a little something I was doing incorrectly with framerate and vsync on my own game that for some reason has substantially changed the number of mega bounce offs I have been seeing. I cant explain why a change in frame rate on my own game would effect why others dont bounce off my own megas.

Now as for just dismissing that packet hacking does not ever occure, thats just stupid. Anyone with just a little socket programming knowledge can work up a proxy server that watches a certain key on the keybord. When pressed, the server would simply stick in a configurable one second delay in any following outgoing packets that are routed through it. As soon as the player hears a lock signal get close enough, press the key. WALA! you just dissapeared from infront of a mega or bounced off it. I even IRC/AIM with a couple friends now and again, one of which says he has worked up a proof of concept program and says it works for many different online games. Im an accomplished C++ socket programmer myself and know it would be rediculously easy to work up such a program.

So packet hacking can be real and not that hard to do.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Mon May 23, 2005 10:08 pm

I don't deny the possibility of it.

It's just that the vast majority of times people claim it, it's really just 'net weirdness.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Mon May 23, 2005 10:22 pm

most of the time, it's sporatic loss. Packets dropped along the way. That causes more trouble than lag.

Sapphire Wolf · Post by **Sapphire Wolf** » Mon May 23, 2005 10:33 pm

I used to play with lag on my old comp

LEON · Post by **LEON** » Tue May 24, 2005 1:38 am

Nosferatu wrote:I appologise for putting you in the ban list.

No problem Nosferatu.

Nosferatu wrote:I was enraged one day when Leon had an escpecially bad net connect. I hit him in the face during the course of two stadium games with no less they 20 megas (and yes I saw the explosion halo in each case). He bounced off every single one. Needless to say I was a little miffed. But since then I found a little something I was doing incorrectly with framerate and vsync on my own game that for some reason has substantially changed the number of mega bounce offs I have been seeing. I cant explain why a change in frame rate on my own game would effect why others dont bounce off my own megas.

My english is not perfect, so maybe I'm missing something here. First you say I have a bad net connect, and that's why I bounce off megas, then you say it has something to do with your own framerate. How do you know I have a bad net connect?

My megas have bounced off pyros since day one in this game, it's something that I have learned to live with. If the reason is that my mega never reach the server, if my mega are lost on its way from the server to the player, lag or what ever, I don't know. Sometimes the mega just kick the pyro around, and no damage, other times the pyro just suck it up, and nothing happens. As I said, it something that I have learned to live with and not complain about.

Peace

[NuB2]Leon

Nosferatu · Post by **Nosferatu** » Tue May 24, 2005 10:03 am

That was the very first time I had ever seen it happen at 100%

Normally I would find 5 or 6 out of 20 acceptable.

But not 20 out of 20.

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Tue May 24, 2005 10:26 am

Leon is across the ocean. Nuff said, methinks.

I would like to know what settings you tweaked however.

Nosferatu · Post by **Nosferatu** » Tue May 24, 2005 11:01 am

OK WarAdvocat.

I used to have the framecap set to my monitor refresh rate (75). This actually cause alot of screen tearing since the game was never in sync with my monitor. I changed it to (200) and turned vsync on. Now I have absolutely no screen tearing and the feel of the game because of that, is night and day.

I suppose that its possible that because of the screen tearing, I was seeing the megas explode in a slightly different position.

I know that without screen tearing I have gotten a bit more accurate with most of the weapons. I guess seeing half a screen being updated and half a screen being older can make accuracy a problem.

Hattrick · Post by **Hattrick** » Tue May 24, 2005 12:11 pm

heh,
I've seen so many megas bounce of ships that it doesnt bother me too much anymore.
I have also been on the recieving end a lot. I can't count the times ive been blown across a level by a mega without damage or recieving very little damage.

Like Leon, I just shrug it off as internet lag and go on.

LEON · Post by **LEON** » Tue May 24, 2005 4:09 pm

The fight was on a euroserver, so I was the lowpinger and Nosferatu had the highping.

Megas are very easy to dodge, so could it be that I dodged it on the server, but on your end, you saw the mega hit me? Just like the opposite, when I have high ping, I dodge the mega on my end, but still it hits me on the server.

[NuB2]Leon

Zero! · Post by **Zero!** » Tue May 24, 2005 4:54 pm

i think i should setup a server on my connect and let all the lpbs feel wut its like to go at it with 300ms v 30 ms and get bitched at for having a higher ping, this is just dumb, yall sore losers if ur going around calling hpb hacks cuz they dont take crap, when a 56ker shots hardly ever hit the other person. some of u been on 56k and have had ppl call u hacks or having ur connect tweaked, and you know that u havnt tweak crap at all, so dont go around accusing ppl of hacking cuz they lag, when u really know that ppl have said that to u and u havnt done nothing.

Zee

Hattrick · Post by **Hattrick** » Tue May 24, 2005 6:56 pm

Tell us how you really feel Z!

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Tue May 24, 2005 8:23 pm

The only time I care about someone on a 56k who's hard to hit is in CTF. If we're playing anarchy and you're all skippy, who cares? I can't hit you, you can't hit me, so we're even. But if we're playing CTF and you're all laggy-skippy, you can grab my flag and I can't hit you, and that makes me unhappy.

But hey, whatever... it's only a game.

TheCope · Post by **TheCope** » Fri May 27, 2005 5:05 pm

If you are on 56k and are honest about it... it's not a real problem. But there are many who have underdeveloped jock senses of humor. Those people are the worst, I felt like I was playing descent at a frat house and wished a life of mini-vans and fat wives upon them.

Bubba, the anal connection freak, and I played a few 1vs1's and he said I was cool. He knew the quicksand he was stepping into... and he still won.

The game is really dead. I love it personally and hope it eeks out a few more years, but why do some people feel the need to have an ego about it? I could loose 20-0 to lothar and it would have no bearing on his or my daily life at all.

Oh, and Leon you sumbiztch I hate getting beat by someone with a NuB tag.

;-0

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Fri May 27, 2005 10:07 pm

cops, I'm pretty sure you couldn't lose 20-0 to me, unless I was haxed.

kurupt · Post by **kurupt** » Fri May 27, 2005 10:40 pm

i bet i could pull it off ;p

BUBBALOU · Post by **BUBBALOU** » Sat May 28, 2005 4:17 am

TheCope wrote:Bubba, the anal connection freak, and I played a few 1vs1's and he said I was cool. He knew the quicksand he was stepping into... and he still won.

yeah you lagged too.... j/k that was a good game (Joust)

I played D3 for 3 years on D/U and know how to adjust to the ping swing... (I used MD/Vauss back then too)

ANaL! whoot I like my connections Tight!

Deadmeat · Post by **Deadmeat** » Sat May 28, 2005 2:18 pm

Quote TheCope:
"Oh, and Leon you sumbiztch I hate getting beat by someone with a NuB tag."

Copsy, now aren't you glad you were so nice to me back when I was just getting started?

Pun · Post by **Pun** » Sat May 28, 2005 2:37 pm

Cops>Deadmeat

Spanggguh!

Palzon · Post by **Palzon** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 5:06 pm

Birdseye wrote:packet hacking is what i do to win

actually it is Birds' fault as far as i know

I have a legitimate attempt at an explanation for all this...

Birds is the first person that i ever heard use the term "pocket dodging", which, in essence, refers to a most excellent way to dodge (read: fly counter-intuitively) without throwing off your own aim.

then people started talking about "packet dodging", which was always either mentioned jokingly or by Noobs.

"packet hacking" is only the latest incarnation.