DescentBB

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/articl ... _1,00.html

I've been reading Jeremy Clarkson's reviews recently, quite a few car reviews in fact. He's funny as hell, and he knows a lot about cars (and their history). Anyway, I was surprised that the Nissan Murano is so good, and impressed that he actually likes the improbably long-lived vanilla 911.

He almost waxes lyrical about the new Viper - but his review of the Mustang is the one which really cracks me up. At least he explains why it is that the American car industry can't make a sports car to save itself (literally!), and why it is that British and European sports cars are excellent.

I drove a 2003 Mustang last year, and thought it was a disaster from start to finish. It handled like a truck, was gutless compared to ahot hatchback, had a crappy, cheap-looking interior, but the most insulting thing about it was the fake brake cooling \"ducts\" which were simple recesses with fake plastic covers. OMG, I almost fell over when I examined them! I haven't laughed so hard for ages!

Last month, my buddy, a magazine editor, took me out in a Chevy Crossfire, and I was slightly surprised that it was fun to drive. That is, until I found out that it is just a Mercedes SLK350 with a different body slapped on it.

Does anyone else know of any good car review sites? Ones where the articles are actually fun AND informative, as opposed to stupid and boring - like most car reviews.

Seems like Jeremy Clarkson has a big mouth. I also take issue with the snobby attitude. We may not have the likes of Lotus, Ferrari, ect most likely because most Americans cannot afford such cars. This is why we like the affordable sports car, Firebird, Mustang, Camaro, Corvette, ect, both current and yesteryears generation. That is why they were so prevalent years ago and why car companies are bringing back such cars. Granted most cars manufactured here are total ★■◆●, but not all. In fact its unfair to paint with a broad brush American cars because even some of America's own do not seem to get the respect that they deserve.

Just because its expensive does not mean its good by default. But anyone who has a narrow view on American cars obviously has not driven enough yet.

You also might have missed a few episodes where he fell in love with the Ford GT. You also may have missed a review where he made a big deal about the C6 having leaf-springs and yet having the same handling as its state-of-the-art counterparts.

Chevy Crossfire? You mean CHRYSLER Crossfire?

www.topgear.com

the lotus elise costs less than alot of the american crap

Dont click this link, this car sucks.

http://www.topgear.com/content/timetobu ... dband.html

Top Wop wrote:I also take issue with the snobby attitude.

It's just his sense of humor. Did you even read the review?

Rating 3/5
Verdict Horrid but very loveable

I mean it's just a simple fact that the car isn't as fast around a track, as efficient, or is as well built as, say, an Evo VIII, but as he says himself the image the car portrays doesn't really matter.

Clarkson is the man.
Anyone seen his first movie? I have it somewhere, He was ona mission to find the world's crappiest car.
A Nissian Sunny; which was then launched from a gigantic catapult and fired into the ground.

mmm destruction.

This is what I think is funny...they're all american cars :p

• GM Brands
• Chevrolet
• Pontiac
• Buick
• Cadillac
• GMC
• Oldsmobile
• Saturn
• HUMMER
• Saab
• Holden
• Opel
• Vauxhall

• Ford Motor Company
• Ford
• Lincon
• Mercury
• Mazda
• Volvo
• Jaguar
• Land Rover
• Aston Martin

• DaimlerChrysler <-- this one's a little touchy so I'll break it down into groups.
  Mercedes Car Group
• Maybach
• Mercedes-Benz
• c smart <---wtf?
  Chysler Group
• Dodge
• Chrysler
• Jeep

And I didn't even include the Commercial Vehicles Divisions

ccb056 wrote:the lotus elise costs less than alot of the american crap

My best friend has one.



I drove it a few weeks ago. Very nice ride.

thats a nice elan and seven he's got there to

Too bad he had to get the hardtop elan, the softtop is alot more fun, albeit leaking in the rain

For the full effect, read the rest of this post as if Jeremy is saying it:


what's amazing is a dodge sprinter can keep up to any domestic on a twisty road.

yes. that dodge sprinter.

the one that's as almost as tall as a highway tractor and sounds like a tin can on wheels.


Oh yea, sure.. going in a straight line is bucketloads of fun if you don't need to do anything fancy.

Or if lateral G is not an issue.

I never did like understeer anyways.

Tetrad wrote:

Top Wop wrote:I also take issue with the snobby attitude.

It's just his sense of humor. Did you even read the review?

I wasn't talking about Clarkson there.

ccb056 wrote:thats a nice elan and seven he's got there to

He fully restored the Elan him self. The 7 is for sale if you want it.

Dedman wrote:

ccb056 wrote:the lotus elise costs less than alot of the american crap

My best friend has one.



I drove it a few weeks ago. Very nice ride.

HEH the Lotus Elise is a death trap, its a composit body with NO structral support. if you get hit in one you are DEAD DEAD DEAD, we had one come into our shop a few months back, first off you need to be a freakin midget to climb into one, I'm 6'6" and it was impossible for me to get behind the wheel, I had to get our lot kid @ 5'4" to drive it around back. I also talked to the owner, he had rearended someone on a city street, the person he hit a Honda civic had a total of $750.00 in repairs, the Lotus had $15,000 in repairs, the whole nose is one peice and needed to be replaced at a cost of $5500 for the part, both front frame rails ( composit glued onto aluminum ) also needed to be replaced. hell the car is so dangerous I wouldnt put my dog into it. there is more to a car than marginal looks and so so performance.

P.S. I cannot stand the new American cars either. its no wonder they are reporting losses every year. they are building crap. I've recently changed jobs to a dealership group that includeds Ford, in my 4 weeks here I have done more water leaks 15+ than in my previous 6 years working on mostly Japanese cars. "Quality is job one" is an absolute joke

The Lotus Elise show why go karts are so fun. ★■◆● safety.

The elise is possibly the safest car out there, active vs passive safety.

ccb056 wrote:The elise is possibly the safest car out there, active vs passive safety. ;)

"I could drive my Elise and get killed, or I could walk and be safe. Heck, I can use the activity anyway!"

heh.. i'd rather have a small and nimble car any day of the week. I can't outmaneuver a potential accident in a three ton vehicle.

not to mention f=ma

the elise can go from 60 to 0 in less than 100 ft on dry pavement

Jeremy Clarkson is the man. Thanks to the wonders of Google Video I've been catching up on old episodes of Top Gear... best show evar

We are talking about afFORDable cars here


But I can't argue when a Lotus is in the convo....


I do agree that there are a lot of pompous attitudes around here.


What I can't stand are these rich kids with Beamers that their mommy's bought them for their Birthday. There isn't anything that gets laughed at more by the general public. Not only do Beamer lovers drive like wangs but the also act like total wangs in general.

Ferno wrote:heh.. i'd rather have a small and nimble car any day of the week. I can't outmaneuver a potential accident in a three ton vehicle.

Agreed. I love small cars. I stand at 6' 1 1/2". I still like to be able to fit into my car though. Small cars are pretty sweet though, especially if they are fairly quick, are stick and front wheel drive. You can fit in some astonishing places, pull some fun moves for kicks on icy winter roads, and you can usually stop quicker and get out of the way of other vehicles quickly.


I love Mini Coupers, Golf's, and of course the awsome Lotus. I don't like Beamers though for some reason. I certainly still wouldn't mind a good Stang or a sexy black Vette (which I have had the pleasure of riding in).

ccb056 wrote:The elise is possibly the safest car out there, active vs passive safety.

Kind of idiotic to say when you yourself have never been in an accident before. You can be the safest driver in the world, nothing will prepare you for that one moment. Absolutely nothing. Hell I dont even think you are at that age to drive yet.

Needless to say I will never drive in a small accordion coffin, Miata, Lotus, or any of the kind.

and i can see TW driving a hummer and then plowing into someone, totalling their car.

i've been in two accidents. both of them were t-bones. neiter were my fault. both times i wished i was driving something more agile.

the idiots saw me a mile away and still drove right into me.

[]V[]essenjah wrote:What I can't stand are these rich kids with Beamers that their mommy's bought them for their Birthday. There isn't anything that gets laughed at more by the general public. Not only do Beamer lovers drive like wangs but the also act like total wangs in general.

hahaha ... i thought it would only be like this in Germany!!!

Top Wop wrote: Needless to say I will never drive in a small accordion coffin, Miata, Lotus, or any of the kind.

Any reason Audi TT, Alfa Romeo Spyder, Porsche Boxster, or Nissan Z didn't make that list?

Its really too bad, SUV's being a larger target because of their surface area, are probably in more accidents than any of those aforementioned cars.

I don't care what this \"expert\" says; the new 'Stang is still smexy, and I'd do almost anything to get one. I could care less about how the thing races; I wouldn't ever want to take it to a track, anyway.

I think it's kind of unfair to compare american cars to european in the sense that you do because, for lack of a better word, the cultural differences behind their design and use.

Most european auto makers are known for precision engineering and performance for use on the roads they drive.

American cars were designed with utilitarianism in mind.
The Model T...\"you can have it in any color you want as long as it's black\"....

And later as we grew into the land of plenty: Over built, heavy duty materials, big rolling slab of thundering chrome steel.

Look at the europeans auto races, little rally cars, 24 hours at Le Mans...road courses etc.
American racing, get a big loud beast of a car and go as fast as you can around an oval rack no more than a mile long!! Like an adults version of Bumper Cars only at 200mph!!! Bumping, rubbin', thundering on the absolute edge of losing control!!!
Do you guys even know what bumper cars are?
Or how about drag racing for pink slips! Or maybe just the bragging rights for the following week until you got to put it all on the line again next friday night

European automobiles are meant to be worked on by the manufacturers representatives, you practically need a degree in engineering or at least a few years of special training before you're allowed to turn a wrench on one, certainly not to be worked on by the owner.
Hell you shouldn't have to work on them or have any desire to do so! They're already on the cutting edge of technology and design. Anything the owner would do would just slow it down and devalue it.

American cars, Ahhh, now there is whole different world! There was, and still is, a whole sub-culture built around the raw material known as the american car.
They roll off an assembly line but they're far from finished really, it wasn't a car at all until you took it half way apart and rebuilt it to your own special preference!
Hot Rodding is american all the way baby!
It spawned a whole genre of Hollywood movies and pop culture was never swept up so completely as it was during the '50's and 60's, all revolving around the automobile.
Drive in resturaunts!
Drive in movie theatres! Try to get a family of eight into a european auto and still be able to see the screen at the drive in...oh, that's right, you guys probably never went to a drive in movie...
My dad took me and my brothers and a few other nieghborhood kids to see a movie called 100 Rifles where Raquel Welch's cleavage was spilling out of her blouse down the forty foot tall screen at the Fiesta Drive in. there has never been more beatiful cleavage shot than that!

Drive through windows at everything from dry cleaners to drug stores!
I used to be able to drive from my house El Paso Texas down into New Mexico and get a freshly mixed margarita complete with salt on the rim in a plastic dixie cup at the drive in window of a liquor store down by the Sunland Park race track!! Only in america!!

Kids, age 14 and up with their first car driving themselves to school...many of them concieved in the back seat of their parents first car....

Racing to the auto parts store with my buddy Bobby Lee in his mothers Monte Carlo with the Holly four barrel carb and turbo-hydromatic transmission...he'd drop it into 2nd, floor the gas pedal and then slam it up to drive and it would smoke the tires at about sixty.
Got to the auto parts store just in time to get the part he needed to finish the re-build of the \"Daddy Rat\", his big block 396 Chevelle that was anything but stock and when it finally ran after spending a year in parts all over his back yard NO ONE touched us!! American cars baby!!! It's not really the car, it's the experience of making the car your own.


So you go right ahead and slam american cars all you want but what you don't get is they are superior in their own way. A very important way that a Jaguar or Lotus or Mercedes could never be.
Not as premium, precision engineered automobile but as an extension of the american spirit.
God I miss my '74 Z28 with the custom built motor, 3/4 race cam, thirsty four barrel carb, sweet sounding headers and big fat tires....

Will Robinson wrote:So you go right ahead and slam american cars all you want but what you don't get is they are superior in their own way. A very important way that a Jaguar or Lotus or Mercedes could never be.
Not as premium, precision engineered automobile but as an extension of the american spirit.
God I miss my '74 Z28 with the custom built motor, 3/4 race cam, thirsty four barrel carb, sweet sounding headers and big fat tires....

Right, now that we're back in the 21st century, I dont see too many people putting their own 'finishing touches' on their Tauruses and Impalas. If they do, its likely because a trim piece fell off.

I see your point but I think you are looking at the past with rose-tinted glasses. American cars have only just recently begun to stop and turn as well as they go in a straight line; hell the Mustang still has a solid rear axle!

Sure things have changed but it's still a different world with different priorities dictating demand.
There are lots of factors that make our cars different. A big spread out population that even the poor must drive to be able to work, and the children of the lower and middle class need cars just to go to school or get to their jobs.

We need the cheap disposable cars.

I just wanted to point out the american car has some qualities that are lost on the european observer.

The American car was very good for what it was designed for.
The new mustang is very good for filling a role as well! Soccer moms and Dads can afford to recapture that feeling of driving something cool....

American cars aren't supposed to be foreign cars, we import those :p

Vindicator wrote:American cars have only just recently begun to stop and turn as well as they go in a straight line

Anybody who's ever lived west of the Mississippi, or driven through such states as Texas, Kansas, North Dakota, Montana, or Utah will understand why Americans' first priority is cars that go fast in a straight line.

Will is absolutely right, you can't compare American cars to European cars, they were not designed with the same result in mind.

It's like comparing a Ford to a Ferrari.

So, basically, their superiority is down to emotional aspects. Great.

yea pretty much. the american car has owners who get wispy at the memories, while the european car have owners that get wispy over the performance that they deliver TODAY.

If we didn't have drive in movies/resturants, we'd have road courses all over the place.

Well, shutup 'cause my NISSAN Sentra 89 Hatchback is da []D[][]V[][]D of all []D[][][]V[][]D[]\\[][E$$

yeah, right.

Sirius wrote:So, basically, their superiority is down to emotional aspects. Great.

I'm not saying european cars aren't superior, just that there are some really cool aspects to the evolution of american cars and since we've never had a hard time getting the imports we've had the best of both worlds. The europeans didn't get to do the american car thing....