These would be sweet toys!

Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Admiral Thrawn** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 12:14 am

http://www.core77.com/challenge/humanpo ... /8desc.htm

Wonder if they'll ever be invented

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 12:46 pm

Why bother? Simply by hacking the correct gene sequence you could cause the human eye to invert the retina, such that the light-sensitive ends of the rods and cones faced outwards (like they should) instead of inwards (as they do). This is why you get the "red eye" in flash photos. On top of this you could use cat genes to force the eye to reflect incoming light. (You'd then have yellow or green eye in a flash photo).

Calculations show you could see almost perfectly well at night with these two modifications.

Oh, I'd add a nictating membrane to the human eye also. Nice additional protection from that "poke in the eye with a sharp stick"!

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 12:50 pm

Mobi

Where do you come up with this crap?

Darkside Heartless · Post by **Darkside Heartless** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 1:44 pm

here's my guess
1) he listened in Biology class
2) he reads too many sci-fi books
3) all of the above

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:31 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Meathead:
 here's my guess
1) he listened in Biology class
2) he reads too many sci-fi books
3) all of the above<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm guessing #2 has more to do with it.

Jon the Great · Post by **Jon the Great** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 5:36 pm

More like read a recent issue of Popular Science.

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 5:47 pm

Biology was always my best subject at school - and human anatomy was always my favourite topic. Female anatomy to be precise!

I had Biology as a subject (as distinct from "Science" - I had classes for Physics, Biology, Chemistry and I took Mechanics as well. Mechanics as in s=ut+½at^2. I studied Biology for 5 years at high school, and one further year at University.

I'm therefore, very familiar with the inner working of most bodily systems, and can offer you my insights.

Believe 'em, or don't.

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 5:49 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mobius:
On top of this you could use cat genes to force the eye to reflect incoming light. (You'd then have yellow or green eye in a flash photo).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But wouldn't that have the unfortunate side effect of not being able to see color?

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 6:01 pm

No.

Colour is detected by Cones. Black and white is detected by Rods. Rods and cones are the two types of light receptors in the Retina. Rods are very very good at working in low light levels, while cones react poorly in low light.

In the human eye, the vast majority of receptors close to the centre of your vision are cones - and this is why we have such good colour vision (a young human can detect about 20 million colour tones) and is also one of the reasons we have poor night vision.

Simply by inverting the Retina (to make it face forwards rather than backwards) permits ALL the photons (or the vast majority of them) entering the eye to fall directly onto the rods and cones. The way it currently works is that a large percentage of photons simply hit the fleshy areas of the Retina as they pass through it - and therefore NOT enter and rods or cones at all.

Even if you did not alter the proportion of rods and cones in the Retina, you would have enhanced night vision as a result.

A tip for you: in the dark, or in low light conditions, you can get a superior view of objects by looking about 15-20° AWAY from the object you want to see. This causes the light to fall almost exclusively on Rods, and you will find it much easier to see using this technique.

Adding reflective coatings to the back of the eyeball, and to the back of the pupil works just the same way the mirrors in a "LASER" work: the light bounces back and forwards and is amplified as a result. A cunning combination of relective surfaces within the eye, and the vast ability of the human optic nerve/brain to pre-process visual input would allow you to have almost perfect night vision. You'd still see great colours during the day, and probably see as well as a cat at night (or better!).

You'd need also to alter the pupil in such a way as to allow it to constrict more in high light levels, as our modifications would allow TOO MUCH light into the eye, and cause something similar to snow-blindness.

Perhaps you could even invent two new types of receptor, say "triangles" and "circles" which would be able to detect Infrared and ultraviolet light at the high and low ends of their respective spectrums. Be nice if you could enable and diable these new receptors too.

Does that answer your question?

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 6:11 pm

I was wondering how long it would take you to mention the problem of blindness... when only a small percentage of the light hits our rods and cones right now, and it hurts to look at the light some days... if we inverted the retina in order to allow nearly all of the light to hit, we'd need the pupil to be about a zillion times thicker and we'd need it to close down a lot tighter.

The problem is, if you just close the pupil a lot tighter to cut the light levels, you lose peripheral vision (probably almost all of it.) You still have the difficulty that the center of the retina would get far too high a density of light, though -- it'd be like looking directly at a laser in a pitch black room. The solution is not to have better control over the pupil, but to have a second layer of tissue of some sort that blocks out most of the light -- essentially, rather than inverting the retina, we need a way to just retract or thin out the tissue in front of the rods/cones. Or, if we invert the retina, we need to have a new layer of tissue in front of it that can thicken or narrow at will, and that, furthermore, doesn't distort the light as it changes shape...

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:24 pm

Hence the pupils that cats have.

Humans needed all the peripheral vision possible when they were on the run. That's why we are this way.

Sting_Ray · Post by **Sting_Ray** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:13 am

And somehow I think this is going to in some way be Bush's or America's fault. Using Mobi's logic of course.

Defender · Post by **Defender** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:26 pm

"Sarge! My NV's dying!"
"Dammit copral. Blink man, blink!"

roid · Post by **roid** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:06 am

cats see in colour.

dogs, octopuses, etc see in black and white.

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:35 am

I am the MOOSE of DEATH!

<--- PHEAR ME!

MUAHAHAHA!

Warlock · Post by **Warlock** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:53 am

hell i would like to have some of thoes

im allready night blind as it is

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:34 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by roid:
dogs, octopuses, etc see in black and white.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you sure about that? I seem to recall watching a show about octopi where they described them as having vision very similiar to humans. In fact, I believe the show said their vision is closer to humans (and presumably other primates too although they didn't specifically say) than any other animal.

Richard Cranium · Post by **Richard Cranium** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 2:16 pm

I'm all for infrared vision... it's almost like having x-ray vision. Might need to be careful what you look at though... It's a good thing some people wear clothing.

Sarge · Post by **Sarge** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 3:35 pm

Mobius, when was the last time you bedded a woman?

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 3:38 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mobius:
Calculations show you could see almost perfectly well at night with these two modifications.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

this is exactly why cats can see at night very well.

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 3:40 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Richard Cranium:
I'm all for infrared vision... it's almost like having x-ray vision. Might need to be careful what you look at though... It's a good thing some people wear clothing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

you do know what Infra-Red is right????

roid · Post by **roid** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:38 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by [NuB] Dedman:
Are you sure about that? I seem to recall watching a show about octopi where they described them as having vision very similiar to humans. In fact, I believe the show said their vision is closer to humans (and presumably other primates too although they didn't specifically say) than any other animal. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah i'm confused as to why they only see black and white as well, but it's true.

given the way they change colour for camo and mating etc, it's especially weird they can't actually SEE colour. but they are very good at distinguishing the greyscale tones (and they're pretty smart to boot).

guess who's been watching wildlife documentarys eh

Battlebot · Post by **Battlebot** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:32 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Defender:
 "Sarge! My NV's dying!"
"Dammit copral. Blink man, blink!"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LMAO

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 7:49 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by AceCombat:
you do know what Infra-Red is right????<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i guess you dont. sooo let me basically tell you what it is........

Infra-Red is thermal energy AKA Heat, Thermal Imaging does not allow one to see internal features of a given object in view, it simply provides a thermogram map of radiated heat from the object. now most modern thermal imaging devices can pin-point very small areas of differential thermal radiation.

take a notice of these pictures:

This is a Color Spectrum Thermal Imager. it detects Thermal Radiation within a set value range of a Max High, and Max Low values. the computer displays colors automatically based on the difference of thermal radiation and can also be set to detect a certain fraction of a whole number along that scale.

This is a GreyScale Thermal Imager. again it detects Thermal Radiation in a set range of Max High and Max Low values except this time, the detectd results are based on a 80 Scale Grey Tones display. these devices are generally limited in their detection precision due to the reduced number of available colors it can display.

Now take a look at this one:

This image as you can see is from a live fire fighter situation. notice the camera is pointed directly at the blaze infront of the fireman, but what does he see.......not fire and hot smoke.........but he sees the location of 2 trapped victims. how is this possible? the Max High and Max Low detecion parameters have been set to only look for and display the tempuratures that are probably within a 20F +/- deviation to the ambient environment and the very high temperatures that the fire puts out. many Thermal Imagers can detect Colder items by simply reversing its Detection Threshold Bias. in laymans terms, its just like looking at a developed film paper and then looking at the Negative Slide.

man im getting a bad habit of becoming a teacher on many BB's.

Tyranny · Post by **Tyranny** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:01 pm

I think what he was refering to is that depending on the sensetivity of some devices you basically can see the heat given off by various body parts usually covered by clothing and as such can see a distinct outline or characteristics of said parts that would otherwise be hidden.

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:11 pm

i dunno, ive never seen a TIC device that sensitive to see through clothing and/or body parts. i may be wrong, but from my view ive never seen one.

Sage · Post by **Sage** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 6:27 am

I want some fking thermal goggles now.

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 8:49 pm

lol, i dont know were you can buy TIC Devices, i do know that they have headset Thermal Imaging goggles, tey are similar to NOD ( Night Optical Device ) AKA NVG ( Night Vision Goggles ) but they use Thermal Imaging instead of the Green and white night vision and are slightly heavier