Out with the old and

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:44 pm

In with the new death watch. Sorry Terri, you've been out trumped by the Pope.

The newsies must be in journalistic euphoria. Even now I hear a CNN reporter asking how long can he (Pope) hang on. Oh joy! Oh Rapture! Death is imminent. Think of all the pomp and ceremony when he passes. The black smoke, speculation on who will replace him...news heaven. And the ratings!
(Sarcasm)

Tetrad · Post by **Tetrad** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:45 pm

I'm half catholic and even I don't care.

bash · Post by **bash** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:57 pm

He's playin' possum. It's a Pope Rope-A-Dope.

Anyway, I hear John Kerry might throw his pointy hat in the ring.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:53 pm

Way to show respect at the passing of a much better man than any of us will ever be. Even if you're not a Catholic, you at least have to recognize John Paul's contributions to world peace and social justice. No one, and I mean no one, has come close to speaking up for the oppressed and the downtrodden over the last 25 years. The world lost a great man today; the least you could do would be to acknowledge that.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:26 pm

Hey Top Gun? All of the comments you're responding to are from when the Pope was still alive.

And woodchip has a point -- the news has been having a field day over the Schiavo case and over the Pope's death.

Sapphire Wolf · Post by **Sapphire Wolf** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:46 pm

Zuruck · Post by **Zuruck** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:51 pm

I have a hard time even fathoming that people can somehow mention the death of a political czar to that a an average citizen. I'm not religious, but the pope preached peace, lived a life with a devout holiness, how can we mention this woman in the same breath as the pope? Look, I feel sorry that this woman died, nobody likes death, but it happens every day in every hospital across the country, get on with it. Her life and death was quickly becoming a political battle, which in itself is disgusting, and I'm glad that it's hopefully over. I hope people understand that the reason behind having a will is now as prevalent as it will ever be. Get stuff done and taken care of before it has to become an issue like this.

Oh, this topic was about the pope. I think the Vatican could use this opportunity to validate their importance in this world. Hopefully, they will choose wisely, even though I'm not up to speed on who is even a candidate for such a post.

Skyalmian · Post by **Skyalmian** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:34 pm

The NYT on the death of the Pope.

whuppinboy · Post by **whuppinboy** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:41 pm

Top Gun wrote:Way to show respect at the passing of a much better man than any of us will ever be. Even if you're not a Catholic, you at least have to recognize John Paul's contributions to world peace and social justice. No one, and I mean no one, has come close to speaking up for the oppressed and the downtrodden over the last 25 years. The world lost a great man today; the least you could do would be to acknowledge that.

ummm, mother teresa anyone?

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:59 pm

whuppinboy wrote:
Top Gun wrote:No one, and I mean no one, has come close to speaking up for the oppressed and the downtrodden over the last 25 years.
ummm, mother teresa anyone?

Not bad company to find yourself in.

Nobody has come close to what either of those two did in terms of speaking out for the poor.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 9:36 pm

Skyalmian wrote:The NYT on the death of the Pope.

Utterly disgusting. This proves once and for all that the Times is now no better than a two-bit rag.

Sorry for overreacting, Lothar; I've just been really angered by some of the comments I've seen today, both here and in the news.

whuppinboy, after the statements you made in the Cafe thread, I'm wondering why you even bothered to post here. Regardless, Mother Teresa was another example of someone who lived their lives in service to those in most need of help, and I also hold her in the highest respect.

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:53 pm

I have a question for you non-Catholic Christians. Do you consider the Pope to be the leader of the Christian faith if you are not Catholic? I am not trying to flame, I am honestly curious.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:45 pm

Nope...

The Pope is the leader of the Catholic branch of the Christian faith. The fact that this Pope was also respected by many Protestants and Orthodox believers is a testament to his character.

Top Wop · Post by **Top Wop** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:04 pm

The church needs to go back to being more traditional, pre VCII in terms of the liturgy of the mass. Im very anxious about the sucessor, because he may screw up the church even more than it already is. We've already made some good progress in the right direction towards going back to the way things should be, now we need a catalyst, probably a cardinal from Africa who can set it in stone without AMerican pop culture dictating to the church what IT finds acceptable and what the church should do.

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:05 pm

Sure. Let's go back to the days when people were sheep and, as far as the priest was concerned, didn't exist during mass.

The Catholic Church is finally approaching the twentieth century. The last thing the church of 1.1 billion people needs is to go backwards.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:07 pm

Yeah, lets go back to when the pedopriests ran amuck.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:40 pm

Top Wop wrote:The church needs to go back to being more traditional, pre VCII in terms of the liturgy of the mass. Im very anxious about the sucessor, because he may screw up the church even more than it already is. We've already made some good progress in the right direction towards going back to the way things should be, now we need a catalyst, probably a cardinal from Africa who can set it in stone without AMerican pop culture dictating to the church what IT finds acceptable and what the church should do.

I agree with you. Did you read the results of the AP poll released just today? Over 60% of American Catholics interviewed wanted clergy to be able to marry. Let me guess; they're the same ones who attend Mass only on Christmas and Easter. John Paul II's so-called "ultraconservative" preachings represent actual faithfulness to Catholic doctrine; those who disagree with his stance on such issues as abortion and birth control aren't really living as Catholics. My high school theology teacher always liked to use the term "pseudo-Catholics." Too many American Catholics (true in name only, I suspect) are paying more attention to popular culture than to the actual doctrines of the Church. I would also love a return to the Latin Mass, or at least an option for it; singing the Latin hymns on Holy Thursday only gives you a glimpse of the elegance of the pre-Vatican II service.

DCrazy, I doubt that the faithful ever "didn't exist" to the priest during Mass, but I will agree that some elements of the pre-Vatican II Mass left something to be desired. I don't want to go back to having the priest's back facing away from the congregation, but I would like to see greater promotion of the Latin Mass and a re-emphasis of some of the Church's more ancient traditions that were somewhat eclipsed during that council. John Paul's papacy helped to promote some of these traditions, such as perpetual adoration, once again; I don't want to see those trends reversed. As Top Wop said, the Church does have to continue this return to "the way things should be," while at the same time looking forward to the future. I pray that the next pontiff can fulfill this task.

woodchip, I'm not even going to acknowledge that flamebait with a response.