Small mistake, big effect

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:21 pm

click (general warning: not funny, 56k warning: 2.7MB, Mobius warning: it's a WMV

)

Richard Cranium · Post by **Richard Cranium** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:25 pm

WOW. Hope they survived.

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:26 pm

Why Warn me? Firefox handles WMV by playing in external player!

Nice Landing. Every Landing you can walk (or swim) away from is a good one! Hope no one drowned.

JMEaT · Post by **JMEaT** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:30 pm

And as for the vid: Holy crap!

Tricord · Post by **Tricord** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:32 pm

0wn3d!!1

[Edit] Both that chopper and Mobi

Top Wop · Post by **Top Wop** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 4:28 pm

Hope they were ok.

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 5:32 pm

The irony of getting a WMV from vorbis.com

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:03 pm

Wow, I think I played with that guy in Desert Combat last night.

Seriously though, I hope they all survived, that's some scary shiz!

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:05 pm

HOLY SH!T!!!! is all i gotta say

Gavotte · Post by **Gavotte** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:24 pm

Hmmm.. You know, if bush wasn't in office, that probably wouldn't have had to happen!

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 8:41 pm

HAHAHAH!!! you wrong for that dude.

that was a pilot error, he misjudged his distance and descent rate and well.......you see the result after his rear port landing gear became tangled with the "overboard" fencing, thus causing the chopper to roll over from the aborted landing as the pilot tried to pull away from the ship to avoid a even more deadly accident of a JetA+ Fuel explosion and sailors being cut in half by the rotor blades.

now if you ask me as a helo pilot myself, i noticed he approached that ship alitter faster than he should have so he could judge the winds and the amount of pitching the ship was doing while underway.

RULE OF THUMB: Always take more time to analyze a situation, than rush into it to save time.

Gavotte · Post by **Gavotte** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 8:44 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by AceCombat:
 HAHAHAH!!! you wrong for that dude.

that was a pilot error, he misjudged his distance and descent rate and well.......you see the result after his rear port landing gear became tangled with the "overboard" fencing, thus causing the chopper to roll over from the aborted landing as the pilot tried to pull away from the ship to avoid a even more deadly accident of a JetA+ Fuel explosion and sailors being cut in half by the rotor blades.

now if you ask me as a helo pilot myself, i noticed he approached that ship alitter faster than he should have so he could judge the winds and the amount of pitching the ship was doing while underway.

RULE OF THUMB: Always take more time to analyze a situation, than rush into it to save time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Anyone want to take this one?

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:28 pm

Having ridden in quite a few Helos in my day (Heliski guide for a time) and being a glider pilot, my only comment is that he was FAR TOO LOW on his approach.

The idea behind a helicopter is VTOL - not rolling landings. At Altitude you get a much better idea of glide slope using RELATIVE MOTION. The relative motion from within that cabin told the story: too low (and too much forward speed - yeah).

Given the mostly excellent forward and downward visibility from helicopter cabins, there's never a reason to approach like that: you come in high and descend. The most obvious reason is in case of a turbine failure (I imagine that craft had 2 x dual turbines so it's an unlikely event - but not impossible) in which case you need altitude for an autorotation landing.

Ace - how well do Helo's convert forward speed to altitude in autorotation? My guess is "surprisingly badly".

And yeah - that WMV file from the last post crashed my work PC 3 times, and my home PC twice before I gave up!

JMEaT · Post by **JMEaT** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:39 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Gavotte:

Anyone want to take this one?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I'll keep it brief and simple:

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:05 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Gavotte:

Anyone want to take this one?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

piss off Gav

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:30 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mobius:
 EDITED: STUFF ALREADY KNOWN AND STUDIED FOR 4 1/2 years
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mobi, maybe your intro rides in a helo were alittle basic for you, a helicopter CANNOT make any upward lift in a AutoRotation situation your engine power is no longer availablethe only lift being produced is what the rotors can still make from their rotation but that is dwindling very fast. the only way to save that rotation speed is to drop your collective pitch to damn near neutral, and let your helo "ride the wind" keeping your rotors turning by putting minimal resistance at them, and using the last bit of translational lift at the last moment to decelerate and come to a jolting but safe landing that may damage your skids and thats about it.
have you ever even sat in a helo while it was in a AutoRotation landing? i seriously doubt it.....i have.....i once had to do a AR landing due to ice in my fuel line. its not fun, its scary, its quick, and one simple mistake in a VERY small margin of error situation results in plain and simple death or severe injury.

plus i bet you have never seen a helo do a "rolling" landing have you.........probably not.......i have

have you ever seen a wheeled helo taxi out just by pitching the rotor forward in pair with forward cyclic directional thrust? maybe you have........have you ever done it..........seriously doubt it

how many helos on skids have you seen do a "Sliding" landing on soft surfaces?...........probably none........i have performed those many times

i could go on and on about stuff you have no idea about in the Rotary Wing world of Aviation

JMEaT · Post by **JMEaT** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:40 pm

Gavotte · Post by **Gavotte** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:47 am

Ace, please. You missed the point of my entire post... it was a joke, sarcasm if you will.

It's just like you said ace...

RULE OF THUMB: Always take more time to analyze a situation, than rush into it to save time.

-Gav

T-Bone · Post by **T-Bone** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:35 am

Am I missing something here? It looked to me like Mobius was actually asking a legitimate question and Ace jumped all over him.

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 3:43 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by AceCombat:
 Mobi, maybe your intro rides in a helo were alittle basic for you, a helicopter CANNOT make any upward lift in a AutoRotation situation your engine power is no longer availablethe only lift being produced is what the rotors can still make from their rotation but that is dwindling very fast. the only way to save that rotation speed is to drop your collective pitch to damn near neutral, and let your helo "ride the wind" keeping your rotors turning by putting minimal resistance at them, and using the last bit of translational lift at the last moment to decelerate and come to a jolting but safe landing that may damage your skids and thats about it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

..............
...........
........
......
..

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by T-Bone:
Am I missing something here? It looked to me like Mobius was actually asking a legitimate question and Ace jumped all over him. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i did answer the question, and at first i was alittle smart, everyone jumps on me right? so why cant i jump back?

here is the answer to his question......

a helicopter CANNOT make any upward lift in a AutoRotation situation your engine power is no longer availablethe only lift being produced is what the rotors can still make from their rotation but that is dwindling very fast. the only way to save that rotation speed is to drop your collective pitch to damn near neutral, and let your helo "ride the wind" keeping your rotors turning by putting minimal resistance at them, and using the last bit of translational lift at the last moment to decelerate and come to a jolting but safe landing that may damage your skids and thats about it.

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:00 pm

Your bitching does not impress the ladies. Now give it a rest before I kill this thread.

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:25 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mobius:
 Having ridden in quite a few Helos in my day (Heliski guide for a time) and being a glider pilot, my only comment is that he was FAR TOO LOW on his approach.

The idea behind a helicopter is VTOL - not rolling landings. At Altitude you get a much better idea of glide slope using RELATIVE MOTION. The relative motion from within that cabin told the story: too low (and too much forward speed - yeah).

Given the mostly excellent forward and downward visibility from helicopter cabins, there's never a reason to approach like that: you come in high and descend. The most obvious reason is in case of a turbine failure (I imagine that craft had 2 x dual turbines so it's an unlikely event - but not impossible) in which case you need altitude for an autorotation landing.

Ace - how well do Helo's convert forward speed to altitude in autorotation? My guess is "surprisingly badly".

And yeah - that WMV file from the last post crashed my work PC 3 times, and my home PC twice before I gave up!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, having been stationed on a Frigate I can tell you that when a Navy helo lands on deck it doesn't come in vertically. He comes in from the back or side. Which ever way is going to give him the most head wind. I have to agree with Ace on this one. From the looks of it this guy came in to fast.

Capm · Post by **Capm** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:47 pm

Does it scare anyone else that Ace is a helo pilot?

Richard Cranium · Post by **Richard Cranium** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:26 pm

How does Ace have his D3 controls setup? Are they like they should be or are they the D3 default?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Capm:
Does it scare anyone else that Ace is a helo pilot?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:06 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Richard Cranium:
 How does Ace have his D3 controls setup? Are they like they should be or are they the D3 default?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

right now they arent setup period, but why you ask that and then put that quote makes no sense. a helicopter flies much different than a pyro does, effectively.

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:10 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by [NuB] Dedman:
I have to agree with Ace on this one. From the looks of it this guy came in to fast.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

and too low

Wang_Lo · Post by **Wang_Lo** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:11 am

jesus H. Christ, AceCombat makes a "intelligent" comment to an answer and you are all like "stfu" and all that jazz, give it a rest, it gets old. Don't be ragging on him, if he says something stupid by all means, wail on him. as in this thread, if you have nothing to contribute as to the cause, don't diss other peoples observation.

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:43 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by [NuB] Dedman:
Well, having been stationed on a Frigate I can tell you that when a Navy helo lands on deck it doesn't come in vertically. He comes in from the back or side. Which ever way is going to give him the most head wind. I have to agree with Ace on this one. From the looks of it this guy came in to fast.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed. Looked like the pilot came in like a bat out of hell. From the looks of it, he pulled the nose up to slow down as much as possible, and was just too low to land properly. He/she got half-way on the pad and just didn't have enough umph to get all the way there, tried to pull off for another run, and lost control. I'm suprised nobody got hurt from the rotor blade pieces flying all over the place.

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:12 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by MD-2389:
Agreed. Looked like the pilot came in like a bat out of hell. From the looks of it, he pulled the nose up to slow down as much as possible, and was just too low to land properly. He/she got half-way on the pad and just didn't have enough umph to get all the way there, tried to pull off for another run, and lost control. I'm suprised nobody got hurt from the rotor blade pieces flying all over the place.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

well to stop a helo in forward movement you usualy have to pull back, but i do agree on how far they did pull the nose back it was alittle excessive.

they were most definately too low to make a proper landing, but when they struck, the landing gear got tangled up in the OverBoard Guardrail ( just basic steel fencing ) and when the pilot "Pulled" power on the rotors and engines, the landing gear refused to snap loose of the fencing and thus rolled the helo over as they tried to pull away. <-- we know from watching i just wanted to comment on it. "Pulling Power" is a term for applying as much collective and engine torque as safely possible to abort a landing and quickly climb back up to prevent a crash or even possibly landing on a person ( when cargo hooks are in use ). this is what the pilot did once he/she felt the jolt of striking the ships deck and the crew members told him/her that a failed landing had occured.

"I'm suprised nobody got hurt from the rotor blade pieces flying all over the place."

most of the rotor blades got absorbed and broken off in the water and thus only a few remaining broken peices were "Flung" airborne.

now if he had hit the ship with his rotors.........oh man im not even going to comment on that.

one funny note: notice the guy in the hatch window just aft of the right pilot seat, when the chopper flips over, he grabs the chopper side in a funny "Roller Coaster" grip. its kinda funny to watch him just grab the flat side of the helo in a vain effort to keep his body from snapping back and him breaking his back and/or his neck on the top of that hatch.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 2:11 am

heh. sounds like ace knows his **** when it comes to this.

Sage · Post by **Sage** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 6:07 am

Well I'll tell you what, flying helicopters in Desert Combat is hard, and is real hard to land them straight up and down! So I usually just go with a rolling landing. Besides, Apaches have wheels so it doesn't hurt the chopper one bit.

here's a pic of the cockpit:

Top Wop · Post by **Top Wop** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 12:15 pm

Desert Combat is the greatest thing to happen since sliced bread.

Sage · Post by **Sage** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 12:37 pm

Oh yeh man I'm addicted to that ★■◆●. And DICE (company who made BF1942) signed a deal with Trauma Studios (guys who made DC) so they will be working on future projects. Like maybe an official Desert Combat expansion pack for Battlefield Vietnam oh my god this is off topic srry!

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 8:52 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sage:
Well I'll tell you what, flying helicopters in Desert Combat is hard, and is real hard to land them straight up and down! So I usually just go with a rolling landing. Besides, Apaches have wheels so it doesn't hurt the chopper one bit.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

you think thats hard, go get you a copy of MS Flight Simulator 2002 Professional or 2004 A Century Of Flight, and try to pilot the Bell 206B JetRanger III or the Robinson R-22 Beta.

i promise you even at that, helicopter flying is VERY VERY hard. you are using both arms and both feet simultaniously whilst looking around making sure nothing is getting close to your rotors and you arent flying too close to buildings, other planes and helo's, and then on top of that....listening to ATC and doing what they tell you........................

WOOOF talk about a hard job................oh yah...forgot this, its easy to start a car right...........it takes 24 steps to start a jetranger and those same 24 steps in reverse to shut it down

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Ferno:
heh. sounds like ace knows his **** when it comes to this.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

why wouldnt i?? ive been flying for 4 1/2 years with CAP

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 10:12 pm

Ace, believe me when I say that I am quite aware of how hard it is to fly something that large. A good friend of mine flew a chopper just like one in the video over in Iraq for some time. During a wargame, a british destroyer accidentally fired on him, and lets just say he pulled some very rapid turns to evade the shells. (amazing what doesn't make the news eh?) Thankfully, he's back on US soil and I don't think he'll be shipped off to Iraq anytime soon.