Refried Nirvana

[woodchip]

Over the years Nirvana has posted some pretty disurbing stuff. However he is a wanker compared to this:

"Meiwes was jailed for manslaughter in January 2004."

Seems like the appropriate sentence...manslaughter...get it?

"His lawyers want his sentence reduced on the grounds that his victim was a volunteer."

So why is Kevorkian still in jail?

"Meiwes, a 43-year-old computer technician, killed and ate Bernd Juergen Brandes after posting an advert on the internet in 2001 asking for a willing victim."

I must be leading a sheltered life

"Meiwes told the court his motive for killing and eating his victim came from a desire for a younger brother he never had - "someone to be part of me".

Feel the love!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4472593.stm

Eat your heart out Nirvsheep (pun intended)

[roid]

ahh i remember this. i gotta agree with the defence, he shouldn't be charged with murder. i vaguely remember the wording of the newspaper internet article he posted went something like: "man, seeking male companion to kill and eat". i seem to remember his eating his penis first.

it'd probabaly involve issues of assisted suicide and disturbing a dead body.

canibalism is pretty interesting stuff. for some reason (probabaly a sidetrack from sociology) only about a week ago i was reading this good informative article about it:

CANNIBALISM: THE ANCIENT TABOO IN MODERN TIMES

it really is taboo in our culture, and nothing is more interesting than a taboo.

[WarAdvocat]

It is taboo for many reasons, not least of which MEDICAL, but if it was die or eat the dead person, I'd be gagging down people steak.

[Sergeant Thorne]

Edited because I severely misread Roid's post!

I don't think that guy should be charged with murder, though. I think he should be shot in the head.

[Darkside Heartless]

I don't think that guy should be charged with murder, though. I think he should be shot in the head.

My thoughts exactly, some people, especially those in the public eye for any period of time, tend to go beyond weird into a place no sane human should go.

[roid]

"kill it, it's different"

fags

[Sergeant Thorne]

Different?

God help us all, we're slaves to a culture that taboos the eating of other people (hey, at least they aren't hurting the animals).

Where are you looking for this sort of thing to take you (in life), Roid? It's not psychology, it's insanity! Taking something that's right or wrong and making it only cultural is very unsound thinking.

[Flabby Chick]

Picking your nose and eating it at a stop light is a taboo. Preparing yourself pasta with side dish of spicy flambéed pen1s is disturbed. The anthropophaginian should be eliminated immediatly.


Now there is another variant upon the people eating theme that i'm an ardent practitioner; however that subject is best kept within the pits of the NHB.

[Nirvana]

At least the guy was willing...

Issei Sagawa from Japan killed a girl in France and ate her (and there are in depth descriptions, I believe directly from him, on what it was like). He was caught by the French and shipped back to Japan.... only.... the French forgot to tell the Japanese that he shouldn't be let go. I have heard two versions of the outcome (both lead to the same result) - one is that his father checked him out of the mental ward, and the other is that he checked himself out. He is a free man living in Japan today.

Eat your heart out, wankchip!

[woodchip]

Cannabalism is perfectly permisable in some cultures. Eating the fleash or heart of your enemy was a way to gain his strength. In some cultures cannabalism was a religious ritual. So to issue a blanket abhorrance and label it as some sort of psychotic episode simply shows your cultural bias. The people that got trapped at the Donner Pass ate those who perished to survive. We cannot say what anyone of us would do in a extreme situation to stay alive.

Wankchip? You trying to stroke me tender?

[roid]

holy ★■◆● (woodchip's on my wavelength!)

Sergeant Thorne, i see YOUR viewpoint as the unsound one. right and wrong my ass, everything is relative.

your discust at canabalism here is a cultural issue, i challenge you to prove otherwise.

Where are you looking for this sort of thing to take you (in life), Roid? It's not psychology, it's insanity! Taking something that's right or wrong and making it only cultural is very unsound thinking.

what is psychology if not the study of the insane?
as for your first question: where do this this is going to take me in life?

good question.
well for starters i think it will give me an empathetic and embracing outlook towards people i meet who are different to myself. i will see them as opportunities to learn instead of enemys to run away from. i will live my life in peace instead of terror. the lack of hate for my fellowman will give me lower blood pressure and a healthier heart, my deeper connections with my fellowman will keep me a mentally happier person and will keep my general health in a high state. instead of a circle jerk of hateful biggots, i will have a variety of interesting friends whom i will share the rest of my happy days with.
i will understand more of the human condition, increasing my knowledge of human nature and the dynamics of all conscious psyche - doing my little bit in moving the social and mental sciences forward for the benefit of the human race. i will have an increased and more robust sense of spirituality - since i will understand the connected nature of spirituality & the hidden aspects of our collective psyches.

[Lothar]

your discust at canabalism here is a cultural issue

Sometimes cultures can be right or wrong about certain issues. Just because it's cultural doesn't mean it's relative. (As long as we're challenging people to prove otherwise... go for it, roid.)

Some cultures think cannibalism in OK in regular circumstances ("we'll starve to death unless we eat our dead friends" is extreme, not regular.) Those cultures are wrong.

[Sergeant Thorne]

I would think that the record of a cannibalism-induced human version of Mad Cow disease would be enough to reconcile the issue to right and wrong. Is that natural? Or maybe they just didn't clean their meat well, right? How about Mad Cow disease, then--did the farmers just not clean the beef that they fed back to other cows well enough? See any kind of a pattern emerging?

Psychology is not the study of insanity. And I was saying that the ideas you are entertaining are insanity, not what you're studying. Psychology is the study of human behavior.

I don't hate or fear people for being different. I learn from what I experience, and I learn from other people, but there's a difference between learning, and what you're doing--being a sponge for every backards notion that holds a glimmer/semblance of truth.

People like you, who embrace every unsound point of view as something to learn from (and probably either shun or sterilize the Bible--another pattern I've noticed), who say everything is relative instead of providing any real answer, are what's wrong with the world today.

i will have a variety of interesting friends whom i will share the rest of my happy days with.

Provided they don't eat you first.

[roid]

I would think that the record of a cannibalism-induced human version of Mad Cow disease would be enough to reconcile the issue to right and wrong. Is that natural? Or maybe they just didn't clean their meat well, right? How about Mad Cow disease, then--did the farmers just not clean the beef that they fed back to other cows well enough? See any kind of a pattern emerging?

i see your point. and yeah i gotta agree, it's an unadvisable practice. a pretty dangerous one at that. to even the scale i should say that even our culture has it's share of unadvisable bad habits that cause disease, sexually transmitted diseases for instance.

Psychology is not the study of insanity. And I was saying that the ideas you are entertaining are insanity, not what you're studying. Psychology is the study of human behavior.

the mental studys are pretty boring if you confine it to normal people. it's the extremes where the fun is .

I don't hate or fear people for being different. I learn from what I experience, and I learn from other people, but there's a difference between learning, and what you're doing--being a sponge for every backards notion that holds a glimmer/semblance of truth.

People like you, who embrace every unsound point of view as something to learn from (and probably either shun or sterilize the Bible--another pattern I've noticed), who say everything is relative instead of providing any real answer, are what's wrong with the world today.

you called me a sponge , heh that sounds kinda cool.
"backwards notion" hehe. backwards, forwards, it's all relative (argh the word! </montypython>) to the direction you're gazing.

actually, your post made so much sense that i feel somewhat disarmed. i'd like to just wear your entire post as a badge of honour. my dark shadow couldn't have said it any purer, than how YOU said it there. when people treat the values i hold dear with such distain - it's somewhat validating of the world that I see. a world full of war and intollerance.
(sidenote: my relationship with the Bible is a rather complex one atm. one Bible prophesy that seem imminent is the whole "man turning against ALL religion" thing, not entirely sure how that'll come about, but i have a feeling it'll be just simple intollerence, magnified.)
interesting no? (not the bible thing). how your blamed problems with the world are summed up as being "people like me". while i see the problems of the world lumped up as "people like you". this is what all people tend to do. we blame all of our problems on our polar opposite - the hidden SHADOW within ourselves that contains all of our traits that our ego refuses to acknowledge - so it gets lumped up all together and is labeled as: PURE EVIL.

basically, you sound just like my shadow. and i sure sound like yours.
and i guess that strugle is what life is all about really.

i will have a variety of interesting friends whom i will share the rest of my happy days with.

Provided they don't eat you first.

lol, touché.


and
NEXT TIME GADGET... NEXT TIME!!!

[Sirius]

You can't reconcile two people with conflicting fundamental beliefs. If you're lucky, they might agree for entirely different reasons, but unless you change those beliefs... well.

[WarAdvocat]

heh

[Lothar]

your discust at canabalism here is a cultural issue

Sometimes cultures can be right or wrong about certain issues. Just because it's cultural doesn't mean it's relative. (As long as we're challenging people to prove otherwise... go for it, roid.)

Some cultures think cannibalism in OK in regular circumstances ("we'll starve to death unless we eat our dead friends" is extreme, not regular.) Those cultures are wrong.

Can't help but notice roid didn't address this.

Disgust at rape is also a cultural issue. Some cultures think it's OK. Those cultures are wrong.

[roid]

your discust at canabalism here is a cultural issue

Sometimes cultures can be right or wrong about certain issues. Just because it's cultural doesn't mean it's relative. (As long as we're challenging people to prove otherwise... go for it, roid.)

Some cultures think cannibalism in OK in regular circumstances ("we'll starve to death unless we eat our dead friends" is extreme, not regular.) Those cultures are wrong.

Can't help but notice roid didn't address this.

i heard you, i saw it as a sidepoint incorporated into Sergeant Thorne's post - so i thought i answered it within my answer to him. Lothar did you want me to tell you how cultures are different? or did you want ME to retroactively attempt to define your definition of "WRONG" before you yourself defined it? i'm not sure what definition - what language YOU are using. is it religious? is it cultural nationalism? is it medical opinion? is it "black" in the expression "black and white"?
i've already agreed medically (from our current knowledge) it's not a good idea.
but medical opinion does not rule a society - in these cases it seems to be a religious/spiritual aspect. mobius has shown what intollerence and lack of tack can look like when you are on the recieving end.

we all need a better explanation than "WRONG".

[Sergeant Thorne]

Perhaps we could define "WRONG" as something that damages or undermines society (a system wherein a group of people live in close proximity and interact, for mutual benefit and safety).

Let's take rape for instance, if someone tries to rape a woman, and I rip their head off where they stand, the abundance of headless corpses could definately be said to be damaging to society--it would at the very least make everyone lose their appetite, and at most spread disease--either way lowering moral and temporarily disrupting the local economy. So that's obviously "WRONG".

Cannibalism... same deal; mark it "WRONG".

Next!

Now I know what you all are thinking, but I'm afraid I just don't see myself running for President. Sorry.

[Lothar]

Lothar did you want me to tell you how cultures are different?

I know cultures are different, and I know a lot of ways in which they're different.

But, it's complete BULL to claim that we can't judge other whole cultures for their beliefs (which is a claim underlying your point.) If a culture says "it's OK to rape people", we're perfectly justified to call them on it and say "no, it's not OK; your culture is messed up." Even though it's a cultural thing, it's something we can judge the culture on and say "hey culture, you're wrong."

i'm not sure what definition - what language YOU are using. is it religious? is it cultural nationalism? is it medical opinion? is it "black" in the expression "black and white"?

It can be any of those things, or it can be defined from "natural law" or any other moral basis. My own is a philosophical/religious natural law hybrid, but you can come to the same conclusions from any credible and reasonable moral system. I'm not asking you to adopt my particular definition -- I'm just saying, under ANY sane definition of the words "right" and "wrong", there are still things we can judge other cultures to be wrong about. (I'm fairly certain cannibalism is one of these things, though I haven't thought much about it; I'm completely certain rape is.)

mobius has shown what intollerence and lack of tack can look like....

Intolerance is perfectly OK. I'm intolerant of people flaming each other in E&C, and of people stealing other people's things, and of people trying to hurt my family, among other things. What makes intolerance bad is when it's for bad reasons (like lack of understanding, or flawed reasoning, or misguided values) or when it leads to bad behavior (that is, behavior which we can judge to be "wrong", under any credible definition of the word.) In Mobi's case, both of these conditions are satisfied -- he speaks out of ignorance, and he treats people badly because of it. Both of these make his intolerance the bad kind of intolerance. My intolerance of rape and of cannibalism do not meet these conditions.

---

Ironic how treating "intolerance" as a very bad thing is cultural.

[woodchip]

One culture can call out any other culture if it so desires. Unfortunately it doesn't mean a thing.
Lothar if you were raised into a cannibalistic society, all your supposed "natural" laws wouldn't mean diddly. You would be a cannibal. If you were raised in a society (and you were male) that believed a womans clitoris should be removed, you would be all for it. If you lived during the time of burning heretics was proper, you would be there to gather firewood and watch.
It is easy to speak from your perspective now, having been raised in a religious and societal environment that allows you a more tolerant (or intolerant) viewpoint. Don't fool yourself into having a smug over-weening attitude that you have a lock on "what is right"

[Dedman]

Some cultures think cannibalism in OK in regular circumstances ("we'll starve to death unless we eat our dead friends" is extreme, not regular.) Those cultures are wrong.

Not to them. That's what makes it relative

[woodchip]

At least the guy was willing...

Issei Sagawa from Japan killed a girl in France and ate her (and there are in depth descriptions, I believe directly from him, on what it was like). He was caught by the French and shipped back to Japan.... only.... the French forgot to tell the Japanese that he shouldn't be let go. I have heard two versions of the outcome (both lead to the same result) - one is that his father checked him out of the mental ward, and the other is that he checked himself out. He is a free man living in Japan today.

Eat your heart out, wankchip!

I suppose you have watched the film:

"In The Realm of the Senses" which is based on a true story of a obsessive love affair between a Japanese man and woman. When the man dies the woman cuts his penii off and carries it around with her.

So whose sophisticated now Nirvy?

[Lothar]

If you were raised in a society (and you were male) that believed a womans clitoris should be removed, you would be all for it.

Then I'd be wrong. Doesn't matter that I wouldn't know I was wrong, or recognize that I was wrong, or listen to someone telling me I was wrong; I'd still *be* wrong. It might not mean a thing to me when another culture said "hey, your culture is f***ed up" -- but they'd still be right. I might think it was all relative and that they were idiots for criticizing my culture, but again, I'd be wrong.

Don't fool yourself into having a smug over-weening attitude that you have a lock on "what is right"

I don't. But I do have a pretty good idea of how much room there is for legitimate disagreement. (There's always room for idiotic disagreement, of course.)

There isn't much room for legitimate disagreement on issues like FGM, rape, racism, burning heretics, beheading infidels, etc. There's a little room for legitimate disagreement on cannibalism, provided you've separated it from issues of murder (ritual or otherwise). That's something I realized last night -- it's not the cannibalism that bugs me so much as the murder-cannibalism pairing. Cannibalism on its own is gross, but paired with murder it becomes very wrong.

I've been raised in an environment that's done a better-than-average job of bringing me to right conclusions on issues like rape and racism. In a different environment, I may not have come to those conclusions, at least not as quickly. But they're still the right conclusions -- independent of environment! Some cultures just do a better job of reaching those conclusions than others.

[Nirvana]

I suppose you have watched the film:

"In The Realm of the Senses" which is based on a true story of a obsessive love affair between a Japanese man and woman. When the man dies the woman cuts his penii off and carries it around with her.

So whose sophisticated now Nirvy?

I have not seen that, but it sounds vaguely familiar (I think it's just similar to another title, "In the Realm of the Unreal" I've heard though).

Sounds like my sophistication comment cut the ole chipper deep

[woodchip]

To the quick Nirv, to the quick....