Venice AMD CPUs

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Wed May 04, 2005 5:58 pm

Any word on when these will be available (like thru newegg etc)?

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Wed May 04, 2005 9:19 pm

Last week.

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Wed May 04, 2005 9:30 pm

Venice's on Newegg

Venice's on Monarch (Cheaper)

Monarch also has San Diego's on preorder

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Wed May 04, 2005 10:48 pm

sweet!
I've been looking on Monarch's site lately and thinking of having them build my new rig. I can get almost all the parts on my list (except for the psu...but they have ocz's which I guess will substitute for the fortron).

does anyone have any experience with monarch?

...and on a side note, which is better: 2 6600GT cards in SLI or 1 6800GT
(the price is about the same...)

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Wed May 04, 2005 11:31 pm

1 6800GT now and another later when u need more power

If u get 2 6600GT's right now, u have no more room to expand, and then when u need more power u have to sell both cards and buy 2 6800GT's

Plus with 1 6800GT now, every game u play, SLI support or not with run great. And by the time u get the 2nd 6800GT SLI will be more ironed out and supported by more games =)

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Wed May 04, 2005 11:43 pm

kk. and the final questions (I think)
*sata or ide for the HD? (and the raptor is not so worth the cost if that's the only hd, right?)
*520W OCZ PSU is a decent psu?
*BFG 6800GT OC for $425 or eVGA 6800GT for $369
(is the +$56 worth it for the OC version?)
*1 GB Corsair twinX1024-3200c2pro for $137 or
OCZ 4001024 ELDC-K for $149

anything else ?
(trying to build a system on the monarch site using the "Monarch Furia Custom Desktop with SLI" setup...if there are some better options there, please point them out)

RM

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Thu May 05, 2005 9:47 am

SATA or IDE is currently irrelevant, SATA needs the new power connectors, but is generally less trouble on the cables, no real speed difference exists between the two.

The raptor is not worth it right now, you can get 95% of the performance from the 300 GB / 16MB cache Maxtor drive with a lot more space.

OCZ PSUs are fine, little expensive tho.

Get the BFG card, factory overclocked.

I'll have to look up the RAM, there is a make of OCZ out there that is really good for overclocking at around $200 (Worth it since you were waiting for a Venice Athlon 64 in the first place, don't cheap out on the RAM), one of us will find a link.

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Thu May 05, 2005 2:00 pm

IDE or SATA really doesn't matter right now like krom said, but just for the upgrade abilities and nice small cables I would go with SATA
And the OCZ PSU already has the power cables for it so u don't have to worry about that

And yeah OCZ PSU's are some of the best, like I've already mentioned like 12 times to u

I would go with the eVGA, IMO $56bux is NOT worth the little OC, (what do they OC the core like 25MHz? its a joke) the eVGA cards OC very well and OCin a video card is the easiest ★■◆● ever

and for the ram, if u don't buy decent stuff like I've told u before, u miz well throw all of those other custom parts in the garbage and go buy a dell

This right here is the best stuff u can get for the money...
This stuff just had a massive price drop, used to be $265 and it does the speeds at my G.Skill that I paid $270 for
ur crazy if u don't buy it

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Thu May 05, 2005 2:52 pm

BTW readyman, my OEM 3200 Winchester is for sale $145 shipped

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Thu May 05, 2005 6:13 pm

hm...
I'm sold on the venice chip

thx tho matrix.

I'm kind of stuck with the parts choices I'm given at the monarch site (I was going to have a friend put my system together after I bought everything from newegg, but that fell thru

). As far as memory goes, they dont have the platinum revision 2 OCZ....but they do have this for $173: 1 GB DDR (2 pcs 512) PC-3200 (400) OCZ Gold (OCZ4001024ELDCGE-K)

http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant ... ffered_OCZ

I've waited this long and have been saving my pennies (even sold my kegerator), so I'm not gonna wimp out now on one or two parts.

RM

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Thu May 05, 2005 6:57 pm

monarch has the ram i was talking about

http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant ... ffered_OCZ

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Thu May 05, 2005 11:13 pm

I'm sorry. I should have explained better. Monarch has the ram you linked to, but they dont include that particular ram in the options for systems they'll put together. The best OCZ ram that they have listed is that Gold ram I linked to above. They list various types of patriot ram and corsair...but for some reason its not all inclusive of the ram they have for individual sale.

I guess I could purchase the ram separately...
I dont want to chince on the RAM (or by a dell

). I do want the best RAM I can get for about $200 on their custom system items list.

the list they have is found here:
http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant ... Code=80503

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Fri May 06, 2005 12:33 am

Installing RAM is pretty painless if you want to do it yourself, it only fits one way, does take a moderate amount of force but once you line it up it snaps in pretty easily. I say get the good ram and plug it in yourself, just set the chip in the slot then push it straight down till the locks on each side clip into place.

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Sat May 07, 2005 4:04 pm

I've got an email into them about substituting that ram. If they wont substitute, is there any other ram listed there that is close to the platinum ocz?

I hope to put the order in on monday.

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Mon May 09, 2005 11:39 am

they are giving me hassles about sub'ing that RAM.

they wont let me buy the system w/o RAM (and then ordering it on the side and putting it in myself)
does any of the other listed RAM come close to the platinum you linked to? they have an OCZ gold 4001024ELDCGE-K for $173 or Corsair 1024-3200XLPT for $197

if neither of those two is close, I'll have to rethink my options.

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Mon May 09, 2005 1:21 pm

Between the both of them I would go with the OCZ Gold
They run on BH-5 Chips

OCZ brought them back from the grave it seems...

These chips will only be useful to u though if u get one of the newer DFI NF4 motherboards that can do a VDIMM of 4.0v or an OCZ DDR Booster
Cuz thes sticks need about 3.4-3.6v to achieve their best timings (2-2-2-7 3.4V 1T @ 255FSB -Anandtech)
Heres the review on these chips from Anandtech

The corsairs u linked to don't seem that great, they seem to only be able to hit the rang of 250 @ 2.6v 3-3-3-6 <-- Crap
But they don't need the insane voltage like the OCZ's do

Even if ur not getting one of the DFI boards that can do 4.0 VDIMM I would still go with the OCZ gold and get the DDR booster, its only $40. Worth the performance IMO.

But which MB are u going with? cuz the OCZ DDR booster doesn't work with all motherboards...
MB compatibility Page

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Mon May 09, 2005 3:34 pm

the motherboard: DFI Lan Party NForce4 SLI-DR Audio/GB-LAN

that's the one you and Krom suggested. It's dropped to $199 now...

-edit after talking to the sales dept/tech dept/ and some other dept. they're gonna let me swap out the RAM.
So I'll have the OCZ platinum with the DFI mb!
Here are the final specs:
Thermaltake VA3000BWA Tsunami Case
Power Supply: 100162 - PS 520W - OCZ OCZ52012U ModStream ATX 2.
1 GB DDR (2 pcs 512) PC-3200 (400) OCZ Platinum Revision 2
Motherboard: 110222 - DFI Lan Party NForce4 SLI-DR Audio/GB-LAN
Processor: 120208 - AMD Athlon 64 3800+ 512K 90nm Rev. E (ADA

Thermal Grease: 800018 - Shin-Etsu G675 Thermal Grease
Heat Sink Fan: 130150 - Thermaltake A1772 AMD $49.00
Memory: 140509 - DDR (400) 3200 - 1 GB (2 pcs 512) OCZ Gol
Hard Drive: 150038 - SATA - Western Digital (WD1200SD) 120 GB
CD-ROM/DVD-ROM/CD-RW: 160457 - DVD-RW - NEC ND-3520A/GNB 4x-DVD+R DL/16x

Floppy Drive: 170108 - Mitsumi Floppy 7-in-1 USB Card Reader/
Sound Card: 180329 - Creative Audigy 2 ZS 24BIT/5.1/IEEE/MIDI/
Video Card: 190670 - eVGA 6800 GT 256MB DDR3/PCI-E/TV-Out/Dual
Modem: 200506 - Creative Modem Blaster 56K V.92 PCI Modem
Round Cables: 270156 - Round Cables UV Kit 2-24" IDE 1-18" FDD 1
Operating System: 210112 - Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Mon May 09, 2005 11:14 pm

lol see if u can get them to change that Heatsink too,, UGH @ thermaltake POS

The retail AMD heatsink would be better I think, no lie

u can always switch that out ur self later on for a thermright XP-90C/XP-120 tho ($40/$60)

a 3800 Venice? damn nice son

kind of a shame to put that cheap $20 thermaltake heatsink on a $400 CPU though
I just bought my self a 3200 Venice last night off monarch, shipped out today

Whats the total on all of this btw?

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Tue May 10, 2005 1:45 am

really? That heatsink is the best they offer in the custom build section

AND they're charging me $49 for it (Thermaltake A1772 AMD Recommended for Athlon 64 (Socket 754/939/940) (OEM) )

I cant get the standard heatsink with that chip for some reason. they sell the cpu with the HS as a part, but its not an option for any of the custom systems.
In fact, they only offer 3 other heatsinks besides the one listed above:
for $25 Thermaltake A1838 for AMD Opteron/Athlon64
for $22 Thermaltake AMD K8 Venus 7+ Highest Performance Cooler for AMD Opteron (OEM)
and for $8 AMD Certified Opteron/64/FX Heatsink

I figured I was doing well by upping the ante on the $49 heatsink.

(it's the best they offer)
...and I dont think I'm up to changing a heatsink on my own.
RM<--Big ScareDcat
I decided not to pay them to put cathodes in the case, that I'd do it myself...
RM<-- living dangerously

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Tue May 10, 2005 10:18 am

RM, if you can find a way to screw up a heat sink install on an athlon 64 system, we will have to come up with some sort of special award and send it to you. Seriously, assembling a PC is 99% mechanical work and none of it is paticularly hard.

Mr. Perfect · Post by **Mr. Perfect** » Tue May 10, 2005 10:30 am

Price doesn't nececarialy indicate quality. Especially with Thermaltake.

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Tue May 10, 2005 3:12 pm

I used to mess around with helping my friends upgrade their systems...but once I fried someone's mb by not having the ram seated properly or I didnt ground myself...not sure how it all happened (and the worse part is that it took me 10 hours to test everything to figure out what had happened)--but that put the fear into me and the idea that just assembling stuff on my kitchen table with a screwdriver wasnt a good idea.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Tue May 10, 2005 4:00 pm

My main computer is on its second motherboard, my server is on its third, just because they break is no excuse to give up building them. RMAs and warrantees are around for a reason, and odds are if it is going to break it will break within the first three days. Having some company build it for you is no guarantee either, they will butcher your budget and not let you use the exact parts you want.

One easy step you can do that will reduce the risk of frying a PC when you are assembling it is rather simple, the first thing you unpack is the case and PSU, plug the PSU in to the wall and its grounded, then touch any metal part of the case or PSU and you are grounded.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Tue May 10, 2005 9:26 pm

Oh yeah, I should mention that if you are planning on overclocking this system, the 3800+ is a total waste of money. If you actually want a good overclock out of a chip, get a 3200 or 3500. The reason you do that is because the same core revision 3200 will reach the same speed in overclocking as a 3800 would reach most of the time. Meaning that a 2.0 GHz default 3200+ will reach 2.7 GHz and so will a 2.4 GHz 3800+.

The faster the chip is, the worse of a overclocker it will be in general. That is why my lowly 1700+ T-Bred B Athlon XP is such an insane overclocker, it is the slowest T-Bred B you can buy period, and they all reach the same general speed (2.3-2.4 GHz).

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Tue May 10, 2005 10:55 pm

Aight this is what u had listed above... Total being $1,936

80503 Monarch Furia Custom Modded Desktop w/PCI-E 1 $100.00
Cases: 100680 - No PS - Thermaltake Tsunami Dream Tower S $115.00
Power Supply: 100162 - PS 520W - OCZ OCZ52012U ModStream ATX 2.0 $99.00
Case Fan: None
Motherboard: 110222 - DFI Lan Party NForce4 SLI-DR Audio/GB-LAN $199.00
Processor: 120208 - AMD Athlon 64 3800+ 512K 90nm Rev. E (ADA $379.00
Thermal Grease: 800018 - Shin-Etsu G675 Thermal Grease (Cools CPU $14.00
Heat Sink Fan: 130150 - Thermaltake A1772 AMD Recommended for Opt $49.00
Memory: 1 GB DDR (2 pcs 512) PC-3200 (400) OCZ Platinum Revision 2 $215.00
Hard Drive: 150038 - SATA - Western Digital (WD1200SD) 120 GB/ $99.00
2nd CD-RW/DVD-RW: 160457 - DVD-RW - NEC ND-3520A/GNB 4x-DVD+R DL/16x $59.00
CD-RW Software: 210613 - Ahead Nero 6.3 Suite DVD+-RW Software (OE $6.99
DVD-ROM Software: 210601 - Cyberlink PowerDVD 5.0 (OEM) $6.99
Floppy Drive: 170109 - Mitsumi 7-in-1 USB Card-Reader/Smart-Medi $14.00
Sounds Card: 180329 - Creative Audigy 2 ZS 24BIT/5.1/IEEE/MIDI/ $96.00
Video Card: 190670 - eVGA 6800 GT 256MB DDR3/PCI-E/TV-Out/Dual $369.00
Round Cable: 270152 - Round Cables Kit 2-24" IDE 1-18" FDD 1-18 $23.95
Operating System: 210112 - Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition w/SP2 $89.00
Warranty: 800007 - 1 Year - Parts & Labor - Barebone (No Sof
Far Cry Promotion: 270846 - FREE Full DVD Version of Far Cry - 39.95
Napster Promotion: 270136 - FREE Napster Music Download for 4 Months
Half Life 2 Promotion: 27F854 - FREE Half Life 2 Full Version Coupon with
Subtotal for 80503 with your selected options: $1,936.93

This is my modified version to try and help u save a few bux. Only recommendations that I feel will help you out some =)

What I changed:
1) You can get the STOCK/RETAIL Heatsink with the CPU's when you order it; under the drop down box it's labeled:
"130122 - AMD Certified Opteron/64/FX Heatsink"
I feel this will be a better choice for you then the themalright Heatsink, plus itâ??s cheaper =)

2)I removed the thermal grease they have listed because it is no name junk and $14 for 1 application? That is a total rip off if u ask me. You can buy an entire tube of Artic Silver 5 for $6 (does like 20CPUs). The stock AMD thermal pad will be fine with the stock cooler.

3)Dropped the 3800 Venice to a 3200 Venice. If u ask me the 3800 a really expensive CPU for the price/performance u get, rich boy CPU IMO

And like krom said above, itâ??s not really a smart move if you plan to overclock. The 3000 and 3200s will clock about the same for a lot less money out of ur pocket. And with the components krom and I picked out for you here, buying a low end CPU is where these components start to pay for them selves because they will help you get the best overclock out of ur CPU =) (IE. overclocking a 3200 way past the stock clocks of a 3800)
Or if ur not sure of ur overclocking luck/skills u can go with the in-between 3500 (add $73 to this total)
And if it gives u any idea of how much power these A64 CPUs pack, when my 3200 is not even over clocked (2GHz) and running with my 6800GT / 1GB of ram. In Half-Life2 running 1280x960 4x AA and 8x AF the FPS counter is pretty much stuck at 99FPS (My vsync). And its pretty much the same thing for Doom3.

4) Removed the unnecessary Audigy. Thatâ??s what the sexy onboard sound is for, waste of money. Buy it later if u really need it for some strange reason.

Also monarch doesn't require u to buy an OS, so if u don't need it, don't forget to remove that

Would take off $85

80503 Monarch Furia Custom Modded Desktop w/PCI-E 1 $100.00
Cases: 100680 - No PS - Thermaltake Tsunami Dream Tower S $115.00
Power Supply: 100162 - PS 520W - OCZ OCZ52012U ModStream ATX 2.0 $99.00
Case Fan: None
Motherboard: 110222 - DFI Lan Party NForce4 SLI-DR Audio/GB-LAN $199.00
Processor: 120210 - AMD Athlon 64 3200+ 512K 90nm Rev. E (ADA $199.00
Thermal Grease: None
Heat Sink Fan: 130122 - AMD Certified Opteron/64/FX Heatsink $8.00
Memory: 1 GB DDR (2 pcs 512) PC-3200 (400) OCZ Platinum Revision 2 $215.00
Hard Drive: 150038 - SATA - Western Digital (WD1200SD) 120 GB/ $99.00
2nd CD-RW/DVD-RW: 160457 - DVD-RW - NEC ND-3520A/GNB 4x-DVD+R DL/16x $59.00
CD-RW Software: 210613 - Ahead Nero 6.3 Suite DVD+-RW Software (OE $6.99
DVD-ROM Software: 210601 - Cyberlink PowerDVD 5.0 (OEM) $6.99
Video Card: 190670 - eVGA 6800 GT 256MB DDR3/PCI-E/TV-Out/Dual $369.00
Round Cable: 270152 - Round Cables Kit 2-24" IDE 1-18" FDD 1-18 $23.95
Operating System: 210112 - Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition w/SP2 $89.00
Warranty: 800007 - 1 Year - Parts & Labor - Barebone (No Sof
Hot Rush: None - Standard Order ( ships within 8-13 business
Far Cry Promotion: 270846 - FREE Full DVD Version of Far Cry - 39.95
Napster Promotion: 270136 - FREE Napster Music Download for 4 Months
Half Life 2 Promotion: 27F854 - FREE Half Life 2 Full Version Coupon with
Subtotal for 80503 with your selected options: $1,588.93

That trimmed off $348, and probably made a better overclocking machine.

You would really score though if u could get monarch to put a Thermalright XP-90c with Artic Silver5 on that sucker

I think this will be a really nice PC though, no matter which way you decide to go. Hope this helps u save a couple bux!

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Tue May 10, 2005 11:33 pm

Krom/Matrix: you guys rule!

I added that sound card pretty much for the joystick port. I have to have it for my 3dpro, and it's worth it to me to add.
I need the winxp because I'm going to use my existing copy for my current machine (actually I have 2 copies of winxp, but I'll need 3 with this new rig). It's just easier this way (I may piece together a machine and give it to a friend, in which case I'll need to have an OS for it). I know I'm a sucker---MS sees me coming and starts counting their cash---but it's the right thing to do.

this idea of the 3200 OC'ing to the same power of the 3800 blows me away. Just so I understand this right, for the most part the top end of the 3800 would be the same as the 3200? So the 3800 is basically just an already OC'ed 3200/3500? (and OC'ing the 3800 isnt going to deliver much?)
the ghz still kinda throws me as I've been an Intel guy forever.

again, Krom/Matrix: you guys rule!
thank you for taking the time to talk me thru all this.

RM

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Wed May 11, 2005 10:03 am

Yeah, I see what you were thinking, the 3800+ is faster then the 3200+ so it must be a better chip that can run faster right? Wrong: AMD only makes one chip, the only differences between a Venice 3200 and a Venice 3800 are the sticker they put on the chip, the default multiplier, and the price, the rest is made the same way at the same place at the same time for the same cost. Yep, thats right, it costs exactly the same to make a Venice 3800+ as it does to make a Venice 2800+, even though they charge a lot more for the 3800+. The same is true for the Intel camp, a P4 2.8 GHz prescott core is identical in every way to a 3.6 GHz prescott core, with the exception of sticker, multiplier, and price.

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Wed May 11, 2005 1:58 pm

Yeah pretty much all you are paying for is the higher multiplier

3000 = 200FSB x 9Multi = 1800MHz
3200 = 200 x 10 = 2000MHz
3500 = 200 x 11 = 2200MHz
3800 = 200 x 12 = 2400MHz

A higher chip might yield u a slightly higher overclock, but if it does, its only guna be ~100MHz

The only time I'd recommend a higher end chip like a 3800 is if u had a cheap Motherboard and RAM that couldn't reach high FSB. Which is where the higher multiplier would come in handy.

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Wed May 11, 2005 11:21 pm

Heres my 3200 Venice that I just got today, no stability testing yet tho...

BTW, Find out the max VDIMM of that DFI motherboard u are getting, if it is one of the ones that can hit 4.0v VDIMM the OCZ VX Gold might be better ram for u.

I'm too lazy to look, read some reviews and stuff

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Thu May 12, 2005 12:10 am

so is it the core speed that shows the speed of the OC or ??

so that's like a 4200 at 2800mhz?

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Thu May 12, 2005 12:36 pm

Yeah in that pic it was overclocked from 2GHz to 2.8GHz
Wasn't stable tho

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Sun May 15, 2005 10:23 pm

Matrix wrote: BTW, Find out the max VDIMM of that DFI motherboard u are getting, if it is one of the ones that can hit 4.0v VDIMM the OCZ VX Gold might be better ram for u.

I'm too lazy to look, read some reviews and stuff

Scratch that, stick with the OCZ Plat Rev.2
Also I've been hearing on the xtremesystem forums that the some newer Venice chips are not overclocking that great. Seems like I bought mine just in time.