Access throughout a airliner?

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 1:30 pm

i have a friend who is arguing with me that a terrorist could do one of these things to attempt to take over a airliner:

1. while in flight have a aircraft with a docking collar transfer him through one of these places:, Landing Gear Wells, Avionics Bays, Baggage Holds. <-- the stuff from the movie Executive Decision

2. Access the Avionics Bay from within the airliner while inflight through the baggage hold from the passenger compartments. <-- Again rigged movie setups

3. Break the sealed cockpit doors with a instrument such as a crowbar, cutting device, large weapon IE: Pistol, shotgun, rifle............<-- i have seen the test data on the new doors and how they are locked and sealed

4. break the decorative walls of the passenger compartments and sever control lines, hydraulic lines, avionics and electrical lines, fuel lines.....ETC ETC <-- nothing that critical even goes near such a unprotected area

DedMan, would you please share your knowledge of how planes "Airliners" are built and how these means of "takeover" are not possible.

we spent a good 45 mins - 1 hr arguing this stuff and he still refuses to beleive what i have told him about this and how movies are rigged just for entertainment

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 1:32 pm

He believes what he sees in movies? Must be American. Tell him he's the bigger idiot today.

Sting_Ray · Post by **Sting_Ray** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 1:33 pm

By "friend" do you mean your reflection?

I'm sure, for 3 days back in 1967 this was possible. But sh<g>it... how can you even come within 4 miles of an airport with a crowbar? I had to do work at SFO once, These guys were so scrutinous that they made me pick up a tie wrap off the pad... a black tie wrap, in the middle of the night. If they can see that...

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 2:55 pm

oh dont worry, im going to print out all these replies just to show him that what he is saying "can be done" in real life.....actually "Cant be done"

and no, he is nothing like me, he just has goofy, crazy , and obsurd ideas that he just likes to discuss. he is just showing his beefed up "so-called" knowledge of airliners of which he has no idea of what he is talking about, but i do and so do many of you guys.

Stingy poo, SFO = KSFO if im not mistaken, and where was this "twist tie" located in relation to the airport

Flabby Chick · Post by **Flabby Chick** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 4:01 pm

I'm surprised that people are thinking the next attack will be through aviation. Just because they are scum, dosn't mean they arn't scum with brains.

sorry...bit off topic there.

(is there a double negative somwhere in there)

Liquid Fire · Post by **Liquid Fire** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 4:07 pm

There's a big problem with that little plan there besides the fact that the whole thing wouldn't work. Where are terrorists going to get the funding or the brains to design, test, operate, and use an aircraft with a docking collar? Tell that to your friend. That'l shut him up quick

Sting_Ray · Post by **Sting_Ray** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 4:43 pm

SFO is San Francisco International Airport sweetie.

And it was on the pad.. like I f*cking said in my post, numbnuts.

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 5:49 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sting_Ray:
 SFO is San Francisco International Airport sweetie.

And it was on the pad.. like I f*cking said in my post, numbnuts.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by AceCombat:


Stingy poo, SFO = KSFO if im not mistaken, and where was this "twist tie" located in relation to the airport<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i know SFO is SanFran Sissy hence why i called it KSFO the K simply denotes it is a United States facility

"And it was on the pad.. like I f*cking said in my post, numbnuts" sorry mr perfect, i didnt catch that

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 6:25 pm

Result of attempting to dock with wide body in flight: No survivors. Just blow plane up. Much quicker.

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 8:28 pm

Don't have time to answer right now, I am studying for exams. Will answer tomorrow.

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 10:26 pm

tomorrow is when i was wanting you to answer anyways. no rush. i just want your answers on this issue as i know your the real expert on airframes and airliners.

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 9:09 pm

Well, letâ??s see. I have some good news and some bad news. The good new is some of the stuff your friend is saying is bogus. The bad news is that some of the stuff your friend is saying is correct.

First the disclaimer. Anything I say refers strictly to the following aircraft B757, B767, B777, B737, MD88, MD90, MD11. I donâ??t have any experience with the B747 or any Airbus aircraft.

And, I am a systems (hydraulics and air-conditioning) and statistical process control guy. The details of the individual airframes is not my forte but I do know a little.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
1. while in flight have a aircraft with a docking collar transfer him through one of these places:, Landing Gear Wells, Avionics Bays, Baggage Holds.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah yes, the old docking collar trick. Assuming that you could rig something like that up and make it work (which I doubt but hey I guess anything is possible) you could meet with some success with this one.

I donâ??t know of any aircraft that you can access the cockpit or cabin through a landing gear well. Which isnâ??t to say you canâ??t do damage. Most of the hydraulics and electric power cables run through the main landing gear well.

If you could reach the avionics bay from the exterior of the aircraft on a 777 you could reach the cabin.

You could reach the cabin from a baggage hold. HOWEVER, you would have to cut through the cabin floor to get in. I donâ??t know of any access hatches into the cabin from the pressurized holds.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
2. Access the Avionics Bay from within the airliner while inflight through the baggage hold from the passenger compartments. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You could access the avionics bay from the cabin on a 777. Any other aircraft and you are SOL I believe.

3. Break the sealed cockpit doors with a instrument such as a crowbar, cutting device, large weapon IE: Pistol, shotgun, rifle

I doubt a crowbar would work. The hallway in front of the cockpit door is too narrow to allow the use of a big enough crowbar. A cutting device would work depending on the device. A dremel would be useless while the jaws of life would do the job easily. A pistol or shotgun would be useless in opening the door.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
4. break the decorative walls of the passenger compartments and sever control lines, hydraulic lines, avionics and electrical lines, fuel lines.....ETC ETC <-- nothing that critical even goes near such a unprotected area<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some of this could all be done. A lot of the control lines and power lines are up in the overhead. The hydraulic lines are usually below the floor so I donâ??t think you could reach any of those from inside the cabin.

There was an AA b757 flight a few years back that had a pit-bull get lose in the baggage hold. It got bored and chewed through the inner wall of the hold and severed some avionics lines. The crew lost some navigation and communication because of it.

I hope this helps.

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:07 pm

this is exactly what i needed Ded.

*ACE* tosses Ded a Bud and a box of girl scouts cookies

( ThinMints of course )

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by [NuB] Dedman:

Originally posted by AceCombat:
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3. Break the sealed cockpit doors with a instrument such as a crowbar, cutting device, large weapon IE: Pistol, shotgun, rifle
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I doubt a crowbar would work. The hallway in front of the cockpit door is too narrow to allow the use of a big enough crowbar. A cutting device would work depending on the device. A dremel would be useless while the jaws of life would do the job easily. A pistol or shotgun would be useless in opening the door.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

another thing to remeber is, how in gods name could a individual get within a mile or so of airliners in operation with such items in possesion?? that is damn near impossible with security as strong as it is now.

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:12 pm

DOUBLE POST ?!?!